What happened to Isabella's Engine?

[wheatonFJR]

When I asked Aaron (the mechanic) how he knew the rod bearing was gone, he told me that they used a stethescope on the running motor to determine it was somewhere in the bottom end. Then they pulled the spark plugs and rotated the engine while sticking a metal rod on top of the piston. Because the #3 piston had some play (up and down) in it, they deduced the rod bearing was bad. I guess we will know soon enough.

This sure sounds like a good way to tell if a rod (bearing) is shot. It will not tell you if it is the big or small end of the rod, but there should be no piston movement without crankshaft movement.

That is all you would need to know. No need to open it up[ except for curiosity sake, and I don't think a pro mechanic would be curious enough to waste several more hours of uncompensated labor in the quest for that kind of knowledge.

Yeah, he saved Patriot some unwarranted shop diagnostic time with that approach.

 

[hppants]

Great input on this thread - much thanks.

I'll be happy to cut open the oil filter and document any findings.

Good idean on heating the Rotor bolt, I'll try that this weekend.

Mihales - I agree with you that many FJR motors last way past 100K before a major failure. Hopefully we will learn more as we go.

Townsend - thanks for the clutch parts breakdown. I should be ready to pull the basket out. Looking at the picture above of the basket, I see there is some kind of bracket/sheet metal with the 2 socket head bolts. Maybe that is holding the basket from sliding all the way down the shaft. I'll check that out soon.

I'm enjoying the learning process.

 

[Mihalis fjr]

Sorry faulty post..

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Great input on this thread - much thanks.
I'll be happy to cut open the oil filter and document any findings.

Good idean on heating the Rotor bolt, I'll try that this weekend.

Mihales - I agree with you that many FJR motors last way past 100K before a major failure. Hopefully we will learn more as we go.

Townsend - thanks for the clutch parts breakdown. I should be ready to pull the basket out. Looking at the picture above of the basket, I see there is some kind of bracket/sheet metal with the 2 socket head bolts. Maybe that is holding the basket from sliding all the way down the shaft. I'll check that out soon.

I'm enjoying the learning process.

If its part #30 (two bolts), those are just the hydralic clutch cylinder retaining bolts.(from the left side of the engine). Wouldn't have anything to do with holding that basket in. It should just come off once that large nut is off. Are those the bolts your referring to?

Also, if you go back to that website, just punch in whatever section your working on, it'll give you a breakdown of the assembly in its entirety. A very big help, often more so than if you had the manual in front of you..

I see the two allan head bolts I think your referring to. I can't find anything on the parts fisch. It shouldn't stop the clutch basket from coming off, but, heck remove them, can't hurt anything...

 

[Patriot]

Hornet - this was my question too. Some of you may recall that Redfish Hunter and I accompanied Patriot to pick up his bike from the mechanic. When I asked Aaron (the mechanic) how he knew the rod bearing was gone, he told me that they used a stethescope on the running motor to determine it was somewhere in the bottom end. Then they pulled the spark plugs and rotated the engine while sticking a metal rod on top of the piston. Because the #3 piston had some play (up and down) in it, they deduced the rod bearing was bad. I guess we will know soon enough.
Anyone have any words of widsom for my clutch basket question?

plus the metal shavings in the oil...

ah, C4 !!!

 

[Denver_FJR]

Not from that filter, it's a Purolator Pure One 14610. Same 14 psi pressure rating for the bypass as the Yamaha filter, IIRC.

You are correct. For some reason I thought Yamaha needed a lower bypass rating. Looked it up (in '08 FSM) and they specify 11.4-17.1 PSI

No need to open it up[ except for curiosity sake, and I don't think a pro mechanic would be curious enough to waste several more hours of uncompensated labor in the quest for that kind of knowledge.

While I would like to know, I'm now skeptical we'll find out the true cause. And while there are quite a few motors with higher mileage on the road, a bearing failure at 95k miles is a plausible explanation.

 

[maddad]

The clutch basket does not pull out. The inner portion of the clutch basket comes straight out after you remove the nut. For the outer basket, you need to first pull out the thrust washer, which is probably already off and stuck to the inner basket.

The outer basket sits on a spacer that has two 5mm holes in it. You have to pull out the spacer first and then the outer basket will drop down and away from the main gear and balancer.

Just did all this over the winter. But I'm putting it back together.

 

[Patriot]

I've posted before that the engine has overheated in the past...3 times in 90k miles. Last time was May 2011 on twisty mountain road Hwy 28 from Deals Gap to Chapalla, GA. I was riding it all day, got tired and lazy, and just left the bike in 2nd gear using engine braking and reving to 6k in the straights. Intently watching the road and setting up the next curve and being tired, I was not watching the instruments and felt the clutch feel funny. The engagement point totally changed, I glanced down to see steam, and saw the temp gauge at max. Stopped immediately and sat for 30minutes as the bike stopped hissing and cooled. The engine itself did not run any different before, during, & after. That habit of running high rpm's for extended periods of time caused the same to happen twice before that.

the May 2011 incident was 40k miles ago. When I say it's good to run synthetic oil, I think of those times the engine overheated and the oil would do it's job under those extreme circumstances.

the coolant level was checked shortly after getting home with the level within normal range.

 

[Fred W]

Hmmm... only revving to 6k should not overheat the old girl. But if I stayed in 2nd gear down the CherryCola I know I'd be well over 6k. It's pretty sweepery in a lot of sections. Maybe you were holding it just a tad higher?

So, maybe with the new engine try shifting more often and we'll see if you get more miles out of this one. Or if you are that tired when you are riding maybe we should just find you one of those automagical shifting 2nd gens to ride.

 

[extrememarine]

I think it points to something more going on or happening to the motor - some sort of abuse whether in the form of riding style or lack of/improper maintenance.

I've run both my '04 and the last '09 hard down in the W. NC / E. TN mountains and never had the temp gauge move above the normal range (upper end, maybe, but no where high enough to cause concern). "Hard" in my book is rev - limiter range. Especially on that stretch of NC 28 from CROT through Fontana to the four lane section, then hard again between 74 and Franklin.

The only time I had the motor get noticeably hot was during summer MSF classes in South Carolina. I left it at idle for some time while I changed over range cones and when I got back on the temp gauge was elevated, fans running, but it didn't overheat.

Hmmm... only revving to 6k should not overheat the old girl. But if I stayed in 2nd gear down the CherryCola I know I'd be well over 6k. It's pretty sweepery in a lot of sections. Maybe you were holding it just a tad higher?

 

[RossKean]

I think it points to something more going on or happening to the motor - some sort of abuse whether in the form of riding style or lack of/improper maintenance.

I've run both my '04 and the last '09 hard down in the W. NC / E. TN mountains and never had the temp gauge move above the normal range (upper end, maybe, but no where high enough to cause concern). "Hard" in my book is rev - limiter range. Especially on that stretch of NC 28 from CROT through Fontana to the four lane section, then hard again between 74 and Franklin.

The only time I had the motor get noticeably hot was during summer MSF classes in South Carolina. I left it at idle for some time while I changed over range cones and when I got back on the temp gauge was elevated, fans running, but it didn't overheat.

Hmmm... only revving to 6k should not overheat the old girl. But if I stayed in 2nd gear down the CherryCola I know I'd be well over 6k. It's pretty sweepery in a lot of sections. Maybe you were holding it just a tad higher?

I wonder if it might be a good idea to check the fans on Isabella for proper operation? Thermostat or relay too? (Did the current thermostat and relay come from the donor or original) Although I have had the fans come on, I have never approached "overheat".

 

[extrememarine]

Good point, Ross.

Mike - have you noticed the fans kick on at all?

 

[Auburn]

Hhpants, you just need an impact driver with more umph behind it. It should be like any other nut righty tighty, lefty loosey.

I had to get a bigger one for one of my dirt bikes. Then you can use an adaptor from motion pro that threads in where the bolt was to jack the housing off the tapered shaft it is on. You might take the engine by an auto shop and then can use a large impact driver to hit the nut for you.

Check to make sure the nut is not staked, some are some are not.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Fred, Hwy 28 and the Cherohala are two different roads and are two different animals as well. I am NOT going to critique his riding style but I don't think second gear was the right choice for either road. Especially not with the monster torque of the FJR, it does not need to spin up that much. Still I would not think the engine should over heat. While I have ridden that road several times and freely admit to not riding very hard, I cannot see why the engine overheated.

With regards to Aaron the mechanic, I was VERY impressed with the man. When we picked up the bike, I left hppants alone to ask his own questions and form his own opinion. hppants is well educated and is a sharp guy, I was curious as to his thoughts and impressions without me interfering and running my mouth over their conversation. Some of you may have noticed that I talk and type too much!

Hppants was pleased with the man's technical skills and knowledge. I had also been curious about the method of diagnosis. When Dad and I rode up there I had expected to find a split open engine I could get pics of. I did not question Aaron very hard that day, he had lots to do and I felt bad enough about taking up his time. I am certain this was not the first time he used this same method to diagnose an engine.

I have often thought of the engine as the heart of the motorcycle. Perhaps in this case the heart just gave up. Perhaps Isabella just died of a broken heart. That poor motorcycle may have just been so heartbroken over never ever ever getting washed, it just died...

 

[hppants]

Got the clutch basket out last night - exactly as Maddad descrbed it. it had nothing to do with the bracket previously referenced.

I'll shorten the hose between my compressor and impact wrench - I may be losing a few psi there. Othewise, I'll heat it and hit it with the wrench - it should come out this weekend. I'm planning to split the cases on Friday or Saturday and I hope we will know more then.

Another challenge I've discovered is how to get the starter clutch out. There's some kind of cam mechanism for adjusting it.

 

[wheatonFJR]

I'm loving this thread...mor pichers plez.

 

[Mihalis fjr]

A nice link..:

https://gipservice.gr/data/documents/PhThORA-KOUZINETON.pdf

 

[Fred W]

Fred, Hwy 28 and the Cherohala are two different roads and are two different animals as well.

Yeah, you know... I know that. [forehead slap]

When we ran it last year we came down the Cherry to Deals Gap and then down Moonshiner 28. Somehow when he wrote 28 I was thinking Cherry. I still think they are pretty similar roads in that I'd be in third or 4th much of the time. 'Course I was having too much fun to make note of what gear it was.

 

[Fred W]

A nice link..:
https://gipservice.gr/data/documents/PhThORA-KOUZINETON.pdf

Oh shit. #7 on the list! Cavitation!!

When was the last time you went to the dentist, Mikey?

[/injection of levity]

 

[extrememarine]

Either way - both roads provide the potential to abuse the motor. The skyway is open, allowing prolonged time at high rpms through the sweepers, parts of NC28 (lower half into Franklin) is tight, so the motor can see multiple trips to redline and back down to 3-4k. My '04 attacked that area once or twice a month when I lived in SC. Never winced, flinched, or complained.

This last motor in Issy was the victim of abuse of some sort more than a single high rpm run down that road.

who knows, maybe Mike's a closet stunter - no more 5 mile wheelies, Mike!!

Yeah, you know... I know that. [forehead slap]
When we ran it last year we came down the Cherry to Deals Gap and then down Moonshiner 28. Somehow when he wrote 28 I was thinking Cherry. I still think they are pretty similar roads in that I'd be in third or 4th much of the time. 'Course I was having too much fun to make note of what gear it was.