wow...big loss

[motorgod]

For your info, daughter turned left, van thought she was going to turn right so he hit the gas to pass on the left of her...she turned and he hit her from behind on the side of the car.
Daughter and a witness saw left indicator on. One lane, so it's hard to be in the wrong place to make the turn. Frankly, anyone that has seen this has seemed to think this is a no brainer...even a friend is a who is a cop. I asked his input because I wanted to check to see if I was missing something.

New information. This was not mentioned in any prior post. Now it does seem more clear to me. I believe you have made some valid points and in all likely hood your daughter is not at fault.

I have been an LEO in excess of 20 years. 14 of those years I have been an accident reconstructionist. I have investigated more fatals than I care to remember. You're right, the science does not lie. You would not believe the statements from involved parties and witnesses that go in the crapper when the evidence is examined.

As far as covering for an officer....well I probably have less tolerance for that than anyone here, excluding other LEO's. See, as much as people try to understand my job, they can't. You need to live this job to understand. I love my job and would do nothing else. Because of that, I have zero tolerance for covering wrong doing where it directly affects another. But I also reserve my opinions and conclusions until I have the whole story.

With that said, I had to come to the defense of my fellow LEO brothers when people were accusing an officer of a 'cover up' with no independant knowledge.

 

[Scab]

The guy (cop) is probably just doing what he was instructed to do by his insurance company. Read your insurance card. At least mine, Geico, instructs me to ADMIT NOTHING in the case of an accident. Determinations of fault are left to the experts. A lot of times we perceive our guilt or innocence by our intentions and not our actions.

 

[Vulcan]

For your info, daughter turned left, van thought she was going to turn right so he hit the gas to pass on the left of her...she turned and he hit her from behind on the side of the car.
Daughter and a witness saw left indicator on. One lane, so it's hard to be in the wrong place to make the turn. Frankly, anyone that has seen this has seemed to think this is a no brainer...even a friend is a who is a cop. I asked his input because I wanted to check to see if I was missing something.

New information. This was not mentioned in any prior post. Now it does seem more clear to me. I believe you have made some valid points and in all likely hood your daughter is not at fault.

I have been an LEO in excess of 20 years. 14 of those years I have been an accident reconstructionist. I have investigated more fatals than I care to remember. You're right, the science does not lie. You would not believe the statements from involved parties and witnesses that go in the crapper when the evidence is examined.

As far as covering for an officer....well I probably have less tolerance for that than anyone here, excluding other LEO's. See, as much as people try to understand my job, they can't. You need to live this job to understand. I love my job and would do nothing else. Because of that, I have zero tolerance for covering wrong doing where it directly affects another. But I also reserve my opinions and conclusions until I have the whole story.

With that said, I had to come to the defense of my fellow LEO brothers when people were accusing an officer of a 'cover up' with no independant knowledge.

+1

That is the most common sense I have read here in a long time.

 

[FJRski]

In my experience, a cop will always side with a politician even if you have photos showing skidmarks, and a judge will pass it off as an honest mistake, especially if it involves Denver's finest,,,axe to grind...

 

[throttlejockeyTJ]

Please Up Date Us!

I would go to Sheriff, State Police, or a County DA. That's as Fraudulent of an Investigation as it gets. :bleh:

 

[FJRScorpion]

You'll get screwed, count on it! Good Luck

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

Update: Court today. She was found GUILTY of left turn from wrong position.

I was able to confer with her, but she had to do all the cross examination and testimony even though she is a minor. I think she did great for a kid...I would have done better and feel that as her father I should have been able to speak...but the precendent says otherwise. shrug.

At the end, the DA told her she did a great job, and that he wasn't sure how it would go.

A new piece of testimony came out of her that I never heard before that buried her. I asked her why she had never told me that bit of information before and she said she wasn't sure. In the middle of her story about turning left she said, "I then looked over my shoulder and didn't see him coming."

My immediate question in my head was, "Why did she look over her shoulder?"

The first cross examamination from the DA was, "Why did you look over your shoulder?"

She said later that she was taught to in case bycycles, or pedestrians came from the side of the road into her path. Everyone else there wondered why you would check your 7 when turning left from a one lane road.

Oh well...$157 and the only damage to the other guys vehicle was a flat tire. As she began to cry I told her it could be worse, that there are a lot worse things going on in the courthouse than her ticket. The guy in front of us said, "Yeah, I'm going to jail for 35 days." She sucked up the tears real quick when she realized the real gravity of her situation compared to her surroundings.

She later said, "Well if he was at fault it could impact his livelihood. I'm just a kid and will get over this. I guess it's best this way." Hmm.

Now I got a '91 Corolla with a great interior, good motor, and a brand new auto tranny with 300 miles on it and a 20k warranty in a bent chasis.

 

[donaldb]

Welp, it was a good experience for a teenager. Gives them a taste of real world--as bitter as it may be. She'll be a better driver as a result--even if she wasn't at fault she sees now how the system can work against you and even if your right, it's not always gonna go yur way. Better to stay out of that situation if at all possible. Better luck next time

 

[MCRIDER007]

Update: Court today. She was found GUILTY of left turn from wrong position.
A new piece of testimony came out of her that I never heard before that buried her. I asked her why she had never told me that bit of information before and she said she wasn't sure. In the middle of her story about turning left she said, "I then looked over my shoulder and didn't see him coming."

My immediate question in my head was, "Why did she look over her shoulder?"

Ok, I am confused. What position was she supposed to be in to make a left turn and why did looking over her left shoulder make a difference? Was her left turn signal on?

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

Update: Court today. She was found GUILTY of left turn from wrong position.
A new piece of testimony came out of her that I never heard before that buried her. I asked her why she had never told me that bit of information before and she said she wasn't sure. In the middle of her story about turning left she said, "I then looked over my shoulder and didn't see him coming."

My immediate question in my head was, "Why did she look over her shoulder?"

Ok, I am confused. What position was she supposed to be in to make a left turn and why did looking over her left shoulder make a difference? Was her left turn signal on?

other driver said she moved over to right as if she were going to turn right. She said Left indicator was on, but nobody else saw it. If she veered to the right to make a left turn as some people do at times, then by California standards, she was in the wrong part of the lane as you are supposed to be as far left as possbile without being over the center line to make a left.

Looking over your Left shoulder, in a way, implies that there was room for someone to squeeze by. Otherwise why would you look over your shoulder for a car? This was the thinking of the judge. She said so.

Now, I know that I always check my 6 when slowing. Then again, I am probably more defensive than most drivers as I ride a motorcycle. Most car drivers would just assume people will stop for them.

 

[MCRIDER007]

other driver said she moved over to right as if she were going to turn right. She said Left indicator was on, but nobody else saw it. If she veered to the right to make a left turn as some people do at times, then by California standards, she was in the wrong part of the lane as you are supposed to be as far left as possbile without being over the center line to make a left.
Looking over your Left shoulder, in a way, implies that there was room for someone to squeeze by. Otherwise why would you look over your shoulder for a car? This was the thinking of the judge. She said so.

It sounds like the other driver knew exactly what to say to make your daughter the guilty party but from the picture you showed it didn't look like she could have moved to the right very far.

I certainly don't see anything wrong with looking over the the left shoulder before making a left turn to make sure some idiot is not ignoring the turn signal and passing, that is normally called defensive driving. I usually don't bother to do that when I am in my truck because the mirrors give me a better view but I almost always do it when I am on my motorcycle. It kind of makes me wonder what kind of driver the Judge is to make a ruling like that.

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

Yup. I agree. I wish I could have answered the cross examination, but she just blurted out a quick and not too salient reply. It left the question essentially unanswered.

Oh well.

 

[MCRIDER007]

Yup. I agree. I wish I could have answered the cross examination, but she just blurted out a quick and not too salient reply. It left the question essentially unanswered.

It sounds like the Judge's decision was pure BS and contrary to common sense. What is your insurance company's position? Can it be appealed?

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

appealing is not worth the time and effort. I took this as far as I'm willing to. It is only $157 and the insurance rates are not going up so...there we go.

 

[MCRIDER007]

appealing is not worth the time and effort. I took this as far as I'm willing to. It is only $157 and the insurance rates are not going up so...there we go.

Unfortunately, it is a lot more than the $157 for the ticket. If the other party had been found to be at fault, he would have been responsible for fixing your car instead of the other way around.

 

[Fallen Jim Rides again]

I'll hazard a guess and suggest that the insurance company believes the girl and sees better percentages in just paying the claims rather than fighing it out in a series of court appearances. Hence no rate increase. Lawyers are stupid expensive. That'll teach us to vote attorneys into legislative positions.

"The more I think about it, old Billy was right . . . . . . . "

 

[dcarver]

O'vale...

As I read through the entire thread I keep thinking that simply put she stood no chance given her age and the situation. Sigh.

On the other hand, you have so much to be proud of; your daughter for telling you the truth, standing her ground on the stand.. on her own, alone.. and sure she didn't do as good of job as an adult... but what she learned from this experience is worth much more than $157 and loss of a car.

And kudos to you too... for teaching your kids the right way, showing them the ropes of life, fair or unfair as they may be. When all is said and done, and you are long gone, she will be telling her kids & grand kids how their grandpa / great grandpa stood by her...

For what it's worth, I'm proud of both of ya!

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

O'vale...As I read through the entire thread I keep thinking that simply put she stood no chance given her age and the situation. Sigh.

On the other hand, you have so much to be proud of; your daughter for telling you the truth, standing her ground on the stand.. on her own, alone.. and sure she didn't do as good of job as an adult... but what she learned from this experience is worth much more than $157 and loss of a car.

And kudos to you too... for teaching your kids the right way, showing them the ropes of life, fair or unfair as they may be. When all is said and done, and you are long gone, she will be telling her kids & grand kids how their grandpa / great grandpa stood by her...

For what it's worth, I'm proud of both of ya!

Thank you. Really. My son turns 18 on Sunday

 

[GOPHER]

Seems to me, that on a 2 lane road, nobody should have passed your daughter from behind untill she had left the roadway. Regardless of which way she was turning. Sounds like you folks got screwed on the deal.

Cops Suck. There......you can all direct your anger at me if you wish.

 

[Windjammer]

I would submit that your daughter's answer to the "why check your 7" question was largely irrelevant. As someone else pointed out, the other driver knew what to say to make your daughtrer look guilty - and given their position in the community that's all that was required. Judge gives benefit of doubt to LEO and more experienced driver. I doubt there's any answer she could have given that would have helped her win the case. Just the way it is....