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Motor Disassembly Question


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#1 rPGoatBoy

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 09:58 PM

Hello all,

I've currently got my engine out of my '06 FJR to fix an issue with it popping out of 2nd gear. My question is, according to the service manual, I've got to pull the head in order to split the motor to have access to the transmission gears. My question is...why? What is the reason I can't remove the transmission shafts without removing the cylinder head/rotating assembly?

Anybody have any similar experience with this?

TIA,

Ryan

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#2 03HiYoSilver

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:00 PM

Ryan,

The head Overlaps both Case Halves and would have to be removed to get the Case Halves opened for access.

Here are some links on this process:

http://www.fjrforum....howtopic=105278

http://www.fjrforum....ndpost&p=446487

http://www.fjrforum....ndpost&p=446712


Good Luck with this and let us know how it goes...

#3 FJRay

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 06:10 AM

I don't believe it's required. One of the Portland guys did his and he didn't pull the head and i just pulled the head on my spare engine and the head has nothing to do with the transmission.
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#4 03HiYoSilver

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 08:18 AM

I don't believe it's required. One of the Portland guys did his and he didn't pull the head and i just pulled the head on my spare engine and the head has nothing to do with the transmission.


Yep, I think you are correct....here's the MicroFiche:

https://www.ronayers...roup/CRANKCASE_

#5 rPGoatBoy

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 09:22 AM

Thanks guys,

I don't want to pull the head/crank/rods/pistons if I don't have to, this is already an extensive job as it is. Plus, I've scanned the forum and don't see anybody bitching about a blown head gasket, so I think I'm good there.

Props to Ponyfool for creating those threads a few years ago, I only wish he'd have kept the pictures up. The motor is on the bench now, I had the valve cover off last night to record some valve clearances (0.001" too tight on the intakes of Cyl. 1) While I'm in there, I'll be setting all of them to the high side of the limit, and replacing the CCT with a blue dot one.

The bike has 27-28k on it, should I replace the timing chain as well since I'm there?

Anything else I should hit because I'm already there?

I've been taking lots of pictures, and will gladly donate them to the forum for everyone's benefit. Don't think I'll have the time to add "circles & arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us" though.

Thanks in advance, again

Ryan

'96 Royal Star with lots of VMax & other go fast(er) parts


#6 03HiYoSilver

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 09:31 AM

Thanks guys,

...The bike has 27-28k on it, should I replace the timing chain as well since I'm there?

...


At your mileage...it is about time to change while you can do it Voluntarily.

See the Pictures at the bottom of this link...inside picture shots:


http://www.fjrforum....howtopic=105278



Good Luck with your Fix and may the Force Be with You!

#7 fudgejerkin1188

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 03:45 PM

I've replaced the gearbox in my 2002 FJR due to an issue with it . Didn't need to remove the head to do it despite what the workshop manual states and it not a bad job to do. The motor is essentially the same on the 2006. FYI the engine uses some one use only stretch bolts to hold the bottom case in place.

Posted Image

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the damage


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Edited by fudgejerkin1188, 05 March 2012 - 03:53 PM.

Posted Image

#8 rPGoatBoy

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 05:21 PM

Thanks a bunch, those were exactly the kind of pictures I was looking for to see just what I'm about to get myself into. Holy shit that shift fork looks like it's seen better days! How many miles on the bike and how many gears did you have an issue with? I'm hoping my damage isn't that extensive.

Which bolts on the engine case are one use only? I'll need to add them to the replacement list. If you have to go digging through the service manual for the answer, don't bother, I can do that as well.

Thanks for the heads up!



I've replaced the gearbox in my 2002 FJR due to an issue with it . Didn't need to remove the head to do it despite what the workshop manual states and it not a bad job to do. The motor is essentially the same on the 2006. FYI the engine uses some one use only stretch bolts to hold the bottom case in place.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

the damage


Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image


'96 Royal Star with lots of VMax & other go fast(er) parts


#9 fudgejerkin1188

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:58 AM

The bolts numbered 1 to 10 in the crank case need replacing. They are M9 by 115mm, the rest can be re used.

Don't really know which gears had issues,second gear was affected but at least two shift forks and a couple of other cogs were also damaged. I bought the bike as a non runner with gearbox issues and didn't ride it before I fixed it. It would occasionally make a horrible noise whilst idling, it would select all gears but I'm not sure what it would have done under load. I replaced the whole gearbox with a second hand unit.

It was an ex unmarked police bike with 40,000 miles on it
Posted Image

#10 wfooshee

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:32 AM

That shift fork looks like the rider rested his foot on the shifter pedal while tooling around in 5th gear, kind of pre-loading a downshift.

Riding tip: don't do that.

IMHO, the "remove the head to split the case" process is to avoid resting heavy shit on the head or valve cover when you turn the motor over to get to the bottom end.
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#11 Constant Mesh

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 11:26 AM

One plus for an AE, it shouldn't abuse the transmission shifting forks, etc. One should rarely have trouble with an AE's transmission.

Can't understand why anyone would preload the shifter for a downshift into 4th? The 4th to 5th to 4th shifts are the sweetest on this bike. Only one shifting fork is involved and you're moving a relatively small, pinion 3rd gear.

Conversely it's easy to understand the relative difficulty of the 1st to 2nd shift. Larger gears with larger ratio differences plus two forks in motion.

One has to shift this bike's transmission with quickness and authority. Minimize the time interval between gears.

I do admit that I'll often verify my 5th gear shift by softly pulling up the toe shift a second time (clutch disengaged) after making the shift. It adds to my confidence that I have a good connection between the gears.

#12 wfooshee

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:07 PM

I don't think he was actually preloading a downshift, but that's the effect produced if he was just resting his toe on the shifter as he rode around ignorantly. That pressure forced rotating parts into firm and constant contact with the fork, resulting in molecular relocation on a large scale. And heat, from the looks of the thing!
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#13 FJR Flyer

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:08 PM


Thanks guys,

...The bike has 27-28k on it, should I replace the timing chain as well since I'm there?

...


At your mileage...it is about time to change while you can do it Voluntarily.



Good Luck with your Fix and may the Force Be with You!


Seriously? 28K miles and change the timing chain?

I just did the CCT at about 56K. My FJ has 118K on it with the original chain.

This is the first I've heard this suggestion. Am I out of touch?
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#14 HotRodZilla

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 01:03 PM



Thanks guys,

...The bike has 27-28k on it, should I replace the timing chain as well since I'm there?

...


At your mileage...it is about time to change while you can do it Voluntarily.



Good Luck with your Fix and may the Force Be with You!


Seriously? 28K miles and change the timing chain?

I just did the CCT at about 56K. My FJ has 118K on it with the original chain.

This is the first I've heard this suggestion. Am I out of touch?


Nope...Yet another example of someone wanting to fix a problem that's not a problem. There has been some issues with the Cam Chain Tensioners on some year bikes, but none with the timing chains themselves.

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#15 Constant Mesh

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 01:41 PM

For the right conditions (head cover off, etc.) it might be cheaper and simpler to put on a new, non-stretched chain and keep the existing tensioner.

Don't know how difficult it is to remove/install the chain at the crankshaft sprocket? I believe a chain costs less than $25.

#16 rPGoatBoy

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:22 PM

For the right conditions (head cover off, etc.) it might be cheaper and simpler to put on a new, non-stretched chain and keep the existing tensioner.

Don't know how difficult it is to remove/install the chain at the crankshaft sprocket? I believe a chain costs less than $25.


And that's why I'm doing it. It's cheap, should be easy to do with the motor out, and with the combination of the improved CCT and me setting the valve clearances to the high side of the limit, I shouldn't have to do much of anything underneath the tank for a long, long time. This is, of course, if I can get the cam chain off without pulling the head or crank.

Why not set the TBO as close to zero as can be done at a reasonable cost while the motor is out?

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#17 RaYzerman19

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 07:12 AM




Thanks guys,

...The bike has 27-28k on it, should I replace the timing chain as well since I'm there?

...


At your mileage...it is about time to change while you can do it Voluntarily.



Good Luck with your Fix and may the Force Be with You!


Seriously? 28K miles and change the timing chain?

I just did the CCT at about 56K. My FJ has 118K on it with the original chain.

This is the first I've heard this suggestion. Am I out of touch?


Nope...Yet another example of someone wanting to fix a problem that's not a problem. There has been some issues with the Cam Chain Tensioners on some year bikes, but none with the timing chains themselves.

There is no compelling reason to change a chain at this low mileage, it will last many many moons and is constantly lubricated. I have not read or heard of any chain issues on any bikes for that matter. The odds would be extremely small that it would fail. Re-use the original tensioner? No, not if it's first gen.

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#18 fudgejerkin1188

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:01 AM

I've recently changed the tensioner, guides and chain on one of my FJRs. (bike had got to 85,000 miles and was a little noisy). The cam chain is easy to replace, you just need to remove the cam cover and the timing chain cover to do it (and the tensioner). With the engine out it should be a doddle.
As a foot note when I checked the old cam chain and guides having removed them there was very little wear and I probably didn't need to do it but as I was in there anyway and I had the bits I did it for peace of mind.
Posted Image

#19 rPGoatBoy

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 04:59 PM

The culprit: Posted Image


Time to put some parts on order. Are any of the gaskets (gearcase cover, oil pan, clutch cover, etc.) gaskets reusable? Anyone had any luck with that? With my low mileage engine, none of them tore when I was separating them. Seemed to be semi metallic instead of paper, unlike my Royal Star.

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