2009 K1300S

[mmonroe]

As some might know, I have been on the fence for some time now trying to decide whether I want a new Hayabusa or a ZX-14. I like big fast sport bikes that tend to have some comfort to them or can be made confortable fairly easily.

Frankly the idea of a ZX-14/Busa with ABS, heated grips, electronic suspension would be awesome. They dont exist though. I would *really* like a Busa/ZX-14 with ABS. Honda is now offering ABS on the CBR1000RR so I suspect we will see ABS on all big sport bikes over the next few years.

The new K1300S for 2009 at 175hp is about 20hp down from a ZX-14/Busa, has the makings for a nice sport bike with the nice extra for guys that like doing distance in a variety of weather conditions.

If you can get past the price, you have to deal with the major number of issues that guys seem to be having with both the K1200S and the K1200GT. I am not sure if BMW has gotten any better with the 2008 model, however, it seems like of guys are having issues. BMW surely sells far less bikes that the Asian guys so the number of "issues" as percentage of overall sales appears to be high.

So the question.. How many of you guys out there know people with BMW's and/or K1200S-K1200GT bikes and what kind of real world issues are they having?

With the 2009 K1200S, if you can get past the price and the shortage of 20hp versus a Busa/ZX-14, it looks like a fine machine for doing long days with lots of miles in a wide range of weather.

Thoughts/Ideas?

Mark

 

[Ignacio]

So the question.. How many of you guys out there know people with BMW's and/or K1200S-K1200GT bikes and what kind of real world issues are they having?
With the 2009 K1200S, if you can get past the price and the shortage of 20hp versus a Busa/ZX-14, it looks like a fine machine for doing long days with lots of miles in a wide range of weather.

Thoughts/Ideas?

Mark

Where's the NEPRT for Sportbikes? You really want to ask this question of FJR owners and not the Kool-aid guzzlers of a BMW forum?

I know a bunch of owners of various BMWs and I wouldn't own one for this very simple fact with the newer ones in the last decade or so:

BMW Final Drives Fail With Shocking Regularlity

Not if, but when they fail...they strand you and the bike so you're not moving anywhere without a tow truck.

It affects more than the two models you mention and model years up to 2008 and there is no resolution remotely in sight. BMW either has failed or chooses not to fix the underlying issue.

It makes the Gen 1 tickers look like a common cold compared to BMW final drive pancreatic cancer.

If somebody were to give me a new BMW to ride in the Iron Butt Rally for free or I had to buy a new FJR....I'd pay full sticker for the latter without a moments hesitation. BMW with single-sided swingarms just are too unreliable to trust.

 

[El Toro]

I'm going to set my kool aid down and type a bit here.

The most commonly reported gripe about the K bikes, and several other current models, is what's called the "EWS" failure... This is a failure of the antenna ring in the ignition switch so that the bike no longer recognizes the chip in the key. When this fails, the bike is immobile until its fixed. There have been several reports of people being stranded and waiting several days to get back underway while a replacement part was shipped in.

BMW has recently started a "replacement campaign" which does not have the status of a formal recall, but which does allow you to get your ignition switch replaced for free at your convenience.

There have been a few other recall issues as well. For example, on the K bikes and on some other models, there is currently a steering damper recall because a coating inside the unit can separate from the cylinder and can block the ports, and this can make the bike difficult to steer, rather than just damped. There were also some recalls related to the brake system on some of the recent K bikes.

I don't personally think that there are many K1200R or K1200S bikes trying to do IBA events. Iggy would have better data than me on that.

I do have an 07 K1200Rsport, which is essentially a slightly detuned version of the K1200S, with a half fairing instead of a full fairing. I do visit the BMW and K bike forums from time to time.

I can say without any hesitation that it was very widely reported that many people were stranded by EWS failures, and there was a lot of disappointment that BMW didn't handle the EWS problem more quickly than it did. As of this writing (and probably dating back into the early Summer of 08) the dealers have had large stocks of EWS parts and many dealers have actively been promoting the "replacement campaign." People who have had problems have not been bashful about sharing their problems with the community at large.

I can also say without any hesitation that the number of final drive failures reported in the last year on the K bike forum, or on the BMW corporate forum (which is only loosely moderated as far as I can tell), is very small. In fact, I can't remember a single report of a final drive failure on a K bike, even as they have been widely reported on the R series.

Now on to the K1200Rsport.... My K1200Rsport is the smoothest bike that I have ever ridden, let alone owned. It is like an electric motor. It is ready to work from 2000 rpm out to the 11000 rpm redline in any of its six gears. Its stock seat is the ONLY stock seat that I have been able to tolerate in recent years... Its good for about 400 miles. Most stock seats (like the one on the FJR) wear me out in about 100 miles. If I ever think about riding the K bike more than 400 miles a day, I'll need to see Corbin or Sargent. Both make aftermarket seats for the bike, and I have had iron buttworthy seats from both companies for other bikes. These K bikes also have a neat expandable saddlebag system from the factory, but they do not have the storage capacity of an FJR's saddlebags. I am very comfortable on the K bike, except for the knee bend. The range of the bike on one tank of gas is a bit over 200 miles (I get low to mid 40's gas mileage, even in 80+ mph runs up or down I-40), and when the reserve comes on around 165 miles, I'm happy to pull off for gas and get a chance to stretch my legs.

Before I bought the FJR, I had intended to buy a K1200GT at the end of this model year when they were moving the 08's out. I bought the FJR AE because of a problem with my left foot that has since healed. I think that finding the FJR AE was a serendipitous stroke for me because I really like it very much and have no incentive to get a K1200GT now that I've got the FJR. However, when I go back and forth between the bikes, there is no doubt that my K bike is smoother, lighter, handles better, is torqueier, and is both quicker to accelerate off the line and in 60 to 80 and 80 to 100 roll ons.

I can also say that BMW as a company has been very supportive. They are very well organized, and very good at communicating, in my opinion. However... the dealer network is varied, and some dealers do not give the same good impression that corporate gives.

I think the new K1300S should be fun. BMW's press release said that the final drive had been redesigned as a "no maintenance" item. This makes me nervous because when they tried to do this for the R1200GS bikes a few years ago, they really screwed up and that appeared to be the beginning of the precipitous decline in their final drive reputation. In fact, even though they had intended that the final drive on the 06 GS not be servicable, they ended up having service bulletins to tell their dealer network how to service them. I wonder how many have been serviced. I further wonder how many were broken in using an accellerated break in strategy that did not properly lap in the gears in the final drive...

Even though I am anxious to see the K1300S in person, I am thinking that if I were to want a bike of this type as an addition to my collection, I would probably go with the Hayabusa. Suzuki doesn't give you that warm fuzzy feeling that being a member of the BMW family gives you, but they make good bikes.... and the Hayabusa is about bullet proof. Everyone ought to own one at least once. :lol:

 

[beemerdons]

It really pains me to put this in print! As of this Friday, when I leave for Jalisco Estado to attend the BMW Motorcycle Clubs of Mexico Rally in Guadalajara and Puerto Vallarta, I will have been riding BMW's for 40 years. When I return from this event, I will have put 523,000 miles on BMW's! However, I agree wholeheartedly with what Senor Ignacio has said: BMW has a tiger by the tail and they have not stepped up and properly dealt with it. BMW DRIVES DO FAIL WITH REGULARITY!!!

Since I am leading ten riders to Mexico, I have been in regular contact with Senor Jose Guzman Carcoba, President of the BMW Motorrad Boxer Club of Guadalajara. Jose has informed me that there will be many representatives from BMW North America and from BMW AG Berlin und Munich. I lived for two years in Augsburg, Bayerische, Deutschland and I am going to dust off my German, grab meine freundin by the arm, set them down with a bottle of mezcal and ask them up close and personal why they are doing nothing to fix this fucking final drive problem. Mark, I recommend you go with the Hayabusa!

Now having said this, I have a 1996 R1100GS "Mi Mexico Mule" and a 2005 R1150RT "Ingrid" in my garage. Mule has a 19 ball bearing final drive and Ingrid has the 17 ball bearing final drive. Mule has 111,000 miles on him and Ingrid 33,000.

Neither one has had a final drive failure. But the thought weighs on my mind as I head down MEX 15 to Laguna Chapala!

I drank the Kool-Aid in the sixties and have been drinking it ever since; along with my old fart riding friends. But I do not recommend my young FJR friends to follow suit. My newest BMW, a F650GS Twin, like GSJane's only silver, arrives 10/25!

 

[joeR6]

Check out my write up I did; I rented a 2006 k1200s for 3 days in socal a couple months ago.

Long story short - Not your typical crotch rocket as it has a less aggressive riding position. Power comes alive around 5k-6k rpm, rough idle though. Seat is good for no more than 300 miles in a day. Exhaust looks and sounds cool (kind of a deep howl as opposed to a higher pitch whine common with japanese liter bikes.) Optional sidebags were a little funky but they worked. ESA was an awesome feature! (although it is a very expensive option). Handling was superb. Didn't care for the power-assist ABS - way to grabby for me. By far much better looking than the busa or zx-14 IMHO.

That single sided swingarm sure looks cool, however it wasn't the final drive that gave me problems - on my last day of riding the beemer's engine siezed up while I was in the middle of the desert in 100+ degree heat (not sure if it was related to the "EWS" mentioned in El Toro's post) I had stopped and started the bike at a one-way construction zone, when I went to restart the bike it hesated, finally kicked over but it sound and felt like someone threw a wrench into the engine - made it maybe fifty feet before she died.

In the end my dad's borrowed fjr got me home while a tow truck took the BMtroubleW and I got a day's refund. Now the bike did have 26k miles on it (I know, that's a LOT for a beemer :lol: ) and who knows what the previous guy did with the bike but the fact that she died on me and left me for dead disuaded me from ever purchasing a bmw. Not to mention the cost of a k1200s with all the bells and whisltes can get you TWO fjrs.

On a side note my older brother had the 650 drakar that left him for dead up in the colorado mts. (failed ignition coil I think it was)

Go with the busa

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...p;hl=bmw+k1200s

 

[Warchild]

Thoughts/Ideas?

Oh, where to begin...... :blink:

Do you really want to purchase a bike that has prompted the development of wholesale websites DEVOTED to the infamous BMW Final Drive Failures?

Think I am kidding? Think again..... https://www.bmwfinaldrive.com/

Re: the K1200RS series in the Iron Butt Rally. To my knowledge, there has been ONE (1) BMW K1200RS that has entered the Iron Butt Rally, this was back in 2003. This bike ended up in 92nd Place. Out of 94 finishers. :blink:

There will be several hyperbikes on the Start Line of the Iron Butt Rally next year.... a Blackbird, and ZX-12R, and a couple others.... but you will not find a K1200RS.

Good luck with any decision you make.

 

[El Toro]

Do you really want to purchase a bike that has prompted the development of wholesale websites DEVOTED to the infamous BMW Final Drive Failures?
Think I am kidding? Think again..... https://www.bmwfinaldrive.com/

Re: the K1200RS series in the Iron Butt Rally. To my knowledge, there has been ONE (1) BMW K1200RS that has entered the Iron Butt Rally, this was back in 2003. This bike ended up in 92nd Place. Out of 94 finishers. :blink:

There will be several hyperbikes on the Start Line of the Iron Butt Rally next year.... a Blackbird, and ZX-12R, and a couple others.... but you will not find a K1200RS.

I took a look at the list at the url posted above, and there were 4 failures of bikes in the modern K1200 series which includes 2006-08 K1200R/Rsport, K1200S, and K1200GT. That's not a big number for the new series.

Most of the failures of K bike final drives on the list appear to be in older K1200LT/LTC models. There are 150 bikes in the list, and I think I saw a few that were more than 10 years old. The LT is heavier than the K bikes that sport the new engine.

 

[Stephen]

Two things.

One, why are you hung up on ABS? I'm just wondering because maybe you know something I don't (easily done!). I can't say anything pertaining to a 'Busa, but I only need one finger to bring my ZX14 to an "oh, shit" stop. I rarely ever use the rear brake except in really slow maneuvers or trail braking in the twisties.

Lastly, if I was into Iron Butting (now that sounds interesting?) or long distance sports-touring, I'd listen to Dale and the rest of the IB guys. Beemers seem to be really cool bikes (looks, performance, etc.), but not worth the extra $$$$$ IMHO. Dale has a very cool platform for what he loves to do, but I reckon he'd make do with Honda 90 Dreamcycle if he had to.

 

[wfooshee]

And to add to ^^^^^, Dale's Busa project was not his first effort at an LD mount. It was an experiment he undertook as an experienced LD rider to see if he could make an LD platform out of a bike he really enjoyed riding for its power. Apparently he's finding tires to be a problem.

I'm not in that category of rider by any means. My longest day is under 400 miles, and my longest weekend is under 1000.

If I'm gonna ride around town and could afford a BMW, I might get a BMW. I sure don't want to wonder how I'd get home from North Dakota or somewhere when the back end seizes up and burns, though.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>...I might get a BMW. I sure don't want to wonder how I'd get home from North Dakota or somewhere when the back end seizes up and burns, though.

Many have purchased a cheap used pick-up truck in the town where it failed and hauled it home.

Some have done this more than once.... :blink:

 

[mmonroe]

First off, this has been a great thread for me as I knew it would be coming from the excellent FJR community and this forum.

Many FJR forum members have a good bit of experience with a wide variety of bikes and I am greatful that the forum owner had the foresight to allow us areas such as this one for communicating with our friends on matters non-FJR. I actually find better information here at times than on the boards dedicated to those bikes.

To answer a few thoughts posted...

I am not a major Iron Butt or LD rider like others, however, I do ride 700-1000mi days and have done several in a row on a wide variety of bikes - one of those being my 1993 ZX-11D Kawasaki. I live in Charlotte NC and usually head to the mountains in North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Penn and even up into New York, Jersey, etc. I even went to Maine this summer.

I am not hung up on ABS but have really see the value of it with the FJR. When you are riding at night in far away places on back country roads, in the cold with rain - ABS is a nice thing to have - as well as some of the other features that the K1300S will have. Most folks with Busa's/ZX-14's dont ride like - that but I do.

It has a been a nice thread and thanks for everyone's feedback.

Mark

 

[Warchild]

I took a look at the list at the url posted above, and there were 4 failures of bikes in the modern K1200 series which includes 2006-08 K1200R/Rsport, K1200S, and K1200GT. That's not a big number for the new series.

Please don't begin to think that web site is anything more than a trivial anecdotal sampling... we had more than 4 failures of the modern K1200 series just in the 2007 Iron Butt Rally alone.

 

[Warchild]

And to add to ^^^^^, Dale's Busa project was not his first effort at an LD mount. It was an experiment he undertook as an experienced LD rider to see if he could make an LD platform out of a bike he really enjoyed riding for its power. Apparently he's finding tires to be a problem.

It looks like this has finally been addressed, and with a tire I was not anticipating to be a primary player on the Busa: Avon Storms. I am now averaging 6500-7000 miles on a set of Storms.... pretty dag-gone good, considering the 170+ hp at the rear wheel... :blink:

 

[Wolfhound]

Once they eliminate the current drives (replace as necessary) & start producing final drives again they'll surely gain back some loyalists . . . .

 

[bmwhd]

Ask big brother (Google) - Results 1 - 10 of about 675,000 for bmw final drive. (0.36 seconds)

Trust us, they suck.

 

[El Toro]

I took a look at the list at the url posted above, and there were 4 failures of bikes in the modern K1200 series which includes 2006-08 K1200R/Rsport, K1200S, and K1200GT. That's not a big number for the new series.

Please don't begin to think that web site is anything more than a trivial anecdotal sampling... we had more than 4 failures of the modern K1200 series just in the 2007 Iron Butt Rally alone.

K1200R or S are dumb bikes for IBA. No argument there. FWIW, the K1200LT is not part of the modern series even in its current model years. Its a throw back to the older K engine design. And it appears to be an incredibly dumb bike to choose for an IBA rally.

However, you've also got to think about how many guys want to ride their bikes in the IBA style. I know that you do.... and you obviously have a passion for this that is rarely duplicated in other riders, along with exceptional accomplishments to match.

FWIW, as I said in my first post, I think I would go for a Hayabusa over the K1300S, and I like my kool aid (but after four decades of whining about how crummy and overpriced the BMW's are, maybe there's a latent subconscious continued hatred of BMW lurking in me).

I dunno. They modern K bikes that are alluded to suffer final drive failures don't show up on the forums... at least not during the year I've been watching. And folks are NOT bashful about reporting their problems. Heck, the forums are full of guys who know the value of PR and try to use it to pressure BMW for this or that. The EWS ring failure pressure finally lead to the campaign, for example ... even though there is no recall. One guy in Brazil had an upper end failure which BMW blamed on what they considered incorrect oil change procedures. I don't think he won his battle, but he generated a tremendous amount of entropy on the modern K bike forum for several weeks, and maybe even a few months. Lawyers, marketting execs, and probably even some high falutin' investment bankers all came to his aid and sounded the trumpet that BMW needed to fix his bike for free even if he hadn't followed the specified maintenance procedures. I guess they don't have the same protections in Brazil that we think we have in the US.

BMW and Yamaha both have groups who complain about the way NHTSA handles reporting of incidents. Both groups have gotten mad that NHTSA has too many categories so that a fundamental underlying problem isn't always fully counted.

With all that said.... Final Drives should not fail in any reasonable use. And an IBA rally ought to be within the domain of reasonable use. I can't imagine anyone who was serious about doing IBA type riding buying a modern BMW for that purpose. That's sort of sad because at one time BMW was considered THE LD ridin' motorcycle....

Sigh....

I give up. They all suck. :cold:

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

'El Toro': I can't imagine anyone who was serious about doing IBA type riding buying a modern BMW for that purpose. That's sort of sad because at one time BMW was considered THE LD ridin' motorcycle....

The New Mexico LOE 1000 just ended -- and, of the 33 finishers, 11 were riding BMWs.

Altho, mostly the more 'old-fashioned' "R"-types.

 

[Wolfhound]

And failures ?

 

[El Toro]

I went over to the BMW K and Superbike Forum and searched for final drive failure. I got a few posts, one of which was my own in which I commented that having a better tool kit wasn't going to help you if you had a final drive failure.

One of the other posters at this url said https://www.bmw-k.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f...+failure#p61266

and I quote:

***************************

There's a *very* extensive article in the September 2008 Motorcycle Consumer News magazine on the final drive failures.

Limited summary:

- BMW uses two different final drive systems: the older Paralever design, which is still used on the K1200LT, and the 2nd-generation "EVO" Paralever, introduced in 2004 and, used on most current bikes. EVO design is easily identified by the 50mm hole in the rear axle.

- From 1980 to 2000, BMW final drive failures were rare

- Starting in 2001 an increasing number of final drive failures started appearing on K1200LT and R1150GS models

- Most of those were on 1st generation Paralever bikes, although some were on EVO Paralever bikes.

- Of 38 Paralever-equipped BMWs in the 2007 Iron Butt Rally, 14 were R1200 EVO models. Of these four didn't finish due to final drive failure -- a 29% failure rate.

- In Sept 2006 BMW revised the service recommendation for final drives to include final drive oil change at the 600-mi service (previously was considered lifetime lubricated).

- In 2007 BMW increased the size of the pinion gear needle bearing on EVO Paralevers, and added a magnetic drain plug.

- BMW didn't publicize but extended the final drive warranty to five years on bikes sold after January 2007

- Owners can check final drive status by putting bike on center stand, grabbing back wheel at 12 and 6 o'clock positions and rocking back and forth. Repeat at 3 and 9 o'clock positions. On EVO bikes up to 1 mm of play measured at the wheel rim is considered normal. More is abnormal and might indicate an impending problem

- A better inspection inspection method is draining final drive oil and inspecting magnetic plug for metallic particles. If any uncertainty, the final drive must be removed and gears/bearings inspected and gear lash measured

- A survey on the BMW LT forum resulted in 174 reported final drive failures

- A separate survey resulted in 80 people reporting failures, of which 11 were EVO Paralevers

- So far no reported crashes resulting from final drive failures

Personally my '06 K1200S has about 29,000 miles on it, which includes many track days and over 30 launches at the drag strip. So far no problems whatsoever with the final drive, which is impressive considering the rigorous use.

The OP asked about a new bike. I personally wouldn't worry (much) about final drive failures on a 2007 or later model. The redesigned bearings, 5-yr final drive warranty and 600-mile initial FD oil change give some peace of mind.

Older bikes don't have these advantages (my '06 KS had the final drive oil changed at about 7,000 mi). But as my own bike shows, the FD system can be reliable under extremely heavy-duty usage.

The reported failures are troublesome but still likely represent a fairly small % of the overall user base.

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