FRJ A OR AE?

[BV1]

I agree that speed is usually what gets inexperienced bikers in trouble, so I am pretending that the bike can't even go over 80 until I get through my second year of riding.
Anyway. This board is great and I appreciate your frankness.

-Todd

No worries mate, drive safe and good plan.

-Steve

 

[flying junior]

This month's Motorcycle Consumer News has some interesting numbers:

Cost: A, $13.799; AE, $15,299.

Top speed: A, 148; AE, 152.

1/4-mile; A, 11.12/119.6; AE, 11.85/117.7.

It also reports that the '03 sold for $11,499, topped out at 153 and turned a quarter in 10.7, going 126.3.

Less is more?

I have, however, scuffed my left toe downshifting in a tight, left hand turn (where I probably shouldn't have been in a position to need to downshift). That AE shifter, like the paddle shifters they use in race cars, would be nice on such occasions.

 

[2006FJR]

This month's Motorcycle Consumer News has some interesting numbers:Cost: A, $13.799; AE, $15,299.

Top speed: A, 148; AE, 152.

1/4-mile; A, 11.12/119.6; AE, 11.85/117.7.

It also reports that the '03 sold for $11,499, topped out at 153 and turned a quarter in 10.7, going 126.3.

Less is more?

I have, however, scuffed my left toe downshifting in a tight, left hand turn (where I probably shouldn't have been in a position to need to downshift). That AE shifter, like the paddle shifters they use in race cars, would be nice on such occasions.

I have the AE and the lowering pegs. I love to corner hard and I pretty much scrap the pegs on every tight turn and if I were using the shifter my boots and foot would be taking a ton of abuse. I have only used the foot shifter one time since I bought the bike over 2 years ago. I was on a long ride and I stopped for some gas and when I went to get back on the freeway the bike would not shift into gear. It seems I forgot to push the damn button so the bike would allow me to shift by hand. If the pace I was getting on the freeway I would have hit the rev limiter if I would not have changed the gear with my foot. :angry2:

 

[Old Bear]

I bought a 2008 AE in May last year. I had never ridden anything other than a Suzuki Bergman scooter for the four months prior to buying the FJR.
The AE allowed me to get into motorcycling without ever learning how to use a clutch. I love the technology and have not have had any problems with getting used to shifting with my fingers. I ride my AE almost daily to and from work in Memphis and have enjoyed being able to join in this sport at such a high level (FJR class) so quickly.

:fan_1:

I am so gonna get flamed for this... But its my "humble" opinion. Now don't... I repeat don't... take this personally. I am just sharing what I feel is the truth.

Your quote, is why I dont like the AE in theory, regardless of how great it shifts. (I havn't ridden one). You don't have to learn (read earn) the ability to drive a "high class" bike.

Its like heres the keys go knock yourself out. That being said, I don't have any less respect for you as a person it just that you or anyone else could get hurt. Understand my mentality, I grew up on a dirt bike, and have ever so slowly worked my way up in power. From 50cc to 100cc to 125cc to 250cc to 450cc's off the dirt bike to a Maxim 400 - 650 to a Seca 650 Turbo to a V-strom 650 and now hopefully to a FJR, and even thats a big jump in balls. I have lost so many friends over the years, that I am so cautious getting a bike that is too "tempting" for me (to open it up).

A 145HP rocket that anyone can pilot to me... is like a Pianist doing a concert on a Self Playing Piano. Why? I feel the motorcycle is an instrument and riding it is a form of self expression. I think the AE masks some of that experience.

So yes. I am a little concerned that the AE allows you to jump in to the sport so easily, on two issues.

One, safety, is the AE creating an illusion of control and/or allowing less experienced riders into a more perilous situation? You could be a safe driver, but you have to admit its not safe for everyone to jump from a Burgman to a 145HP FeeJer, but anyone can do it.

Two, your bike makes significantly less of a statement about your riding abilitys (which inadvertantly is one of the reasons you may have bought it, its crazy to learn the clutch on a bike like the FJR if you have no prior experience). If your riding in my group (I volunteer to lead Demo rides ni the summer and I love touring in groups) I dont know where your abilities lie. The AE might make me 2nd guess. I can tell in a few minutes listening to shifts at stop and starts where my riders are in experience, as clutch control usually relates to experience. I can tell in a few mild corners what they are comfortable with.

Underexperienced riders on big bikes can happen in any group with or without a clutchless system, but at least there is some evidence to lack of riding ability when you hear then burning the clutch, stalling out or inadvertently wheelying (yes I have seen this, its scary!).

Anyways, dont take it personal, your story is not typical, just saying what everyone else is thinking. Just drive careful, thats all. I remember reading an article in Motorcycle Magazine on the AE and it basically said the same thing. Anyone can hop on and go, which is nice, but at the same point and time, scary.

-Steve

Appreciate your comment, however No modern high performance motorcycle is right for beginners. I too have been riding beaucoup years (Honda 65, Bridgestone 90, Yamaha 305 Cross Country, Kawasaki 350 Avenger, Suzuki 500 Titan, Kawasaki H2; Kawasaki KZ 650, Kawasaki KZ1000R, Ducati 900SS and, now an FJR), and the thought of anyone without some serious wheel time climbing on one of todays 100+ hp machines scares me silly. :dribble: Today any 18 year old with 8K in credit and NO riding experience can buy a machine that could have WON at Daytona 30 years ago, THAT's scary!!! Realistically, all new riders should start with something a lot lighter and slower than what are being peddled as "beginner" bikes. Heck, a 500 Ninja is a LOT of power IF someone doesn't have any experience... I personally would favor a graduated liscensing system to force people to actually learn "how" to ride before they could climb on a two wheeled rocket (Now THAT will get me flamed!! :glare: ) Anyway, manual or auto clutch, I personnally don't want to be around ANY newbie on anything with the kind of power a FJR (or even a "little 600" sportbike) can crank out. You KNOW they're gonna crash, it's just a question of when, and shucks, they might take us out with 'em :yahoo: Just my 2cents....

 

[Clark Kent]

Yea? well Bullshit Okierider! I have been riding all my life and you can't tell me the auto clutch is better then a regular clutch, no way no how! If you can't use a clutch you should be riding a little scooter or maybe in your case a Hoveround! :dribble: Don't talk about my experience on bikes, you don't know me, I raced with Scott Parker, and Kenny Roberts, and last time I talked to them, they use clutches too. If clutchless is so hot of an item why doesn't Yamaha, or any other sport bike maker use them in their sportbike lineup, because no one would buy them! They are for entry level, old men, who got in over thier heads. :yahoo: Hows that for a Friday rant! And my buddies Dave Aldana and Gene Romero who I last saw in September wouldn't ride a clutchless bike either!

How can you shift (using a clutch) as you say, if your feet are not on the bike??

I saw Kenny Roberts and Scott Parker on TV once. Do I get anything for that?

AND who are Dave Aldana and Gene Romero? Should they be my buddies too? Where were you when you saw them last September? Maybe I could find them and hang out for a while.

If I did hang out with them would they drop your name to impress me? :biggrinsmiley:

 

[luvtoride]

I have, however, scuffed my left toe downshifting in a tight, left hand turn (

That is the 2nd time that I've seen someone talk about downshiting in a curve in this one thread. Do you guys really do that?

I've been taught not to & will continue to not do that.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

You are correct 'luvtoride'.

Proper cornering technique (MSF) includes selecting a suitable corner entry speed when approching the curve. "Slow from your approach speed to a proper entry speed". That may or may not include/require any shifting. Steadily accelerate through the curve -- that 'steadily' part may preclude any shifting (unless you had a CVT).

Any shifting -- change in power application -- may un-settle the chassis and corrupt smooth cornering adroitness.

 

[happyPuppy]

I agree about shifting in corners ( excluding big sweepers, it probably makes no difference.) I too set the entry speed and just try to be smooth through it. As far as the AE experience , it is apples and oranges to compare a CVT scooter to the AE. The only thing different is the clutch handle. When I was a kid and rode the British and HD bikes I hated how tired my hand would get from the clutch. Now at 52 my arthritic hands hate it even more. A cold day and a long ride would just not be as much fun and I would get less out of the ride. I still shift with my foot , ( why I have no idea, I just like it better I guess) I picked the AE as it allows me to ride longer with less discomfort and keeps me focused more on safe riding . I am glad we have choices with the FJR , to each their own , it is all good.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>...As far as the AE experience , it is apples and oranges to compare a CVT scooter to the AE. The only thing different is the clutch handle.

My intention was not to compare the AE's computerized clutch 'automatic' to a CVT (I know the differences) -- but, to describe the improbability of not shifting when "accelerating through a turn" if one were on a machine equipped with CVT drive.

If you're accelerating with CVT -- you're shifting --- nothing you can do about it. (I don't think MSF has/or will address the CVT issue?)

And..., there are other CVT vehicles besides scooters: both motorcycles and cars.

Maybe Yamaha should've gone that way with the AE....? :huh:

 

[happyPuppy]

<snip>...As far as the AE experience , it is apples and oranges to compare a CVT scooter to the AE. The only thing different is the clutch handle.

My intention was not to compare the AE's computerized clutch 'automatic' to a CVT (I know the differences) -- but, to describe the improbability of not shifting when "accelerating through a turn" if one were on a machine equipped with CVT drive.

If you're accelerating with CVT -- you're shifting --- nothing you can do about it. (I don't think MSF has/or will address the CVT issue?)

And..., there are other CVT vehicles besides scooters: both motorcycles and cars.

Maybe Yamaha should've gone that way with the AE....? :huh:

I had a majesty 400 and a 650 Burgman. The big issue with CVT's I found was the inability to downshift. In the mountains with a lot of very steep grades ( near Yosemite Priest Grade is a good example) do you really want to be on the brakes that much? They fade from 1st hand experience. The AE is a "real" motorcycle transmission as we all know. The CVT's wear out faster ( you have to change the weights and springs as the wear) and when they shift is based on the how much the total weight is, to tell it when to shift. It is common to swap variators, pullout weights to get it right. They also have a lag in acceleration. For instance the performance numbers of my Majesty 400 was almost the same as a 250 Ninja. The belts can squeal too. You are correct the CVT's are pretty good for many uses Honda has used them for years and they are very reliable, but not for performance , IMO.

I don't shift in curves because that is what I was taught years ago and honestly because I do not think I am good enough as it can upset the geometry in a curve, and I don't think I am good enough reaction wise anymore. If I could ride everyday or for a long ride over weeks I suspect I could, I am not implying it can't be done or is not safe enough for a better rider than I. Who knows i am going to Lee park's school and maybe I will learn enough to feel safe.

 

[RichardS]

Have you tried the Aprilia Mana with it's 3 mode CVT, one of which is shiftable? I did before deciding on the FJR, liked the trans, but I felt the bike was too small for me & my riding style.

 

[Cdogman]

Yea? well Bullshit Okierider! I have been riding all my life and you can't tell me the auto clutch is better then a regular clutch, no way no how! If you can't use a clutch you should be riding a little scooter or maybe in your case a Hoveround! :dribble: Don't talk about my experience on bikes, you don't know me, I raced with Scott Parker, and Kenny Roberts, and last time I talked to them, they use clutches too. If clutchless is so hot of an item why doesn't Yamaha, or any other sport bike maker use them in their sportbike lineup, because no one would buy them! They are for entry level, old men, who got in over thier heads. :yahoo: Hows that for a Friday rant! And my buddies Dave Aldana and Gene Romero who I last saw in September wouldn't ride a clutchless bike either!

I call bullshit on you and your attitude.. If you cannot use the AE system and are riding at your limit to be unable to allow some concentration for integrating with a new system then perhaps you should slow down.. I think the Enzo uses a system much like the AE.

If you have to tell people you are smart, you are not

If you have to tell people you are good looking, you are not

If you have to tell people you are funny, you are not

If you have to tell people you are fast, you are not

If you have to tell people you are a good rider, you are not

Lets take someone coming from 30 years of riding a Burgman type scooter... They jump on a ninja 250 for an afternoon and then come away saying "Anyone that thinks a manual clutch is better is an idiot because I know a "Timmy McScooter" who is fast on a scooter, and I have been riding scooters for 30 years" would sound like an idiot.

Now, 30 years experience does count for something.. But dismissing something because YOU have not mastered it is stuipid and dropping names to prove you are stupid is assinine.

I dont have to tell people here how I ride, I have ridden with many of the west coast boys and had the privilidge of riding with many others as they pass through town going from point A to point B. I am faster than some and many are faster than me

Anytime you wanna come to my neck of the woods and play with me feel free.. I will take my 1300CC FJR Scooter out and I will show you some of our roads.. Try to keep up please.. We have some awesome roads.. In fact go see the thread on FJR Training and the track time.. You are welcome to crash here if you want to go to the track with some of us.

Now, as to my opinion..

It is personal preference.. But to answer the question on the first post.. The AE will do EVERYTHING the A will with one exception (yes I found something I dont care for about it as minor as it is) I have to downshift as I decellerate coming to a light so stay on the powerband for safety, incase someone tries to run me over. THat means the engine runs down through the gears as I slow and it sounds like I am hotdogging and letting the clutch out as I do it.. With a clutch, I could hold it in and "snick" down through the gears with the handle held in.. Of course I would have to hold it in the whole time I was stopped.. not so with the AE

It is personal preference

 

[Cdogman]

And another thing, The quote was from Dave Cannet, editor, Cycle World! I think he knows more about bikes then you do.

No, he knows more about writing about them than I do.. The rest is speculation on your part

 

[Shane Stump]

If you are SMART, you will purchase a Honda GL1800 with all the electrical farkles you want.

I have a 2006 AE model which as been having electrical problems since Yamaha replaced the ECU and they are now blaming the problems on my added electrical accessories (though they can't prove it)!

If you purchase a FJR and you want a warranty, LEAVE THE BIKE STOCK OR YOU MIGHT WIND UP WITH A POS like I have!

Best Regards,

Shane

 

[Cdogman]

If you are SMART, you will purchase a Honda GL1800 with all the electrical farkles you want.
I have a 2006 AE model which as been having electrical problems since Yamaha replaced the ECU and they are now blaming the problems on my added electrical accessories (though they can't prove it)!

If you purchase a FJR and you want a warranty, LEAVE THE BIKE STOCK OR YOU MIGHT WIND UP WITH A POS like I have!

Best Regards,

Shane

Funny. I must be stoopid.... I owned a GL1800 and an FJR at the same time.. some here may remember me discussing it..

THEY ARE NOT equal... the GL1800 in unmatched at touring..... but had no sport... but those that ran with me on my GL considered me spirited.. 950 lbs sport bike does have its limits

I loved my GL,,,,,, But never keep up with the FJR on its turf.

Honda does have incredible quality.... I mean under the plastic too... IMHO

 

[Shane Stump]

If you are SMART, you will purchase a Honda GL1800 with all the electrical farkles you want.
I have a 2006 AE model which as been having electrical problems since Yamaha replaced the ECU and they are now blaming the problems on my added electrical accessories (though they can't prove it)!

If you purchase a FJR and you want a warranty, LEAVE THE BIKE STOCK OR YOU MIGHT WIND UP WITH A POS like I have!

Best Regards,

Shane

Funny. I must be stoopid.... I owned a GL1800 and an FJR at the same time.. some here may remember me discussing it..

THEY ARE NOT equal... the GL1800 in unmatched at touring..... but had no sport... but those that ran with me on my GL considered me spirited.. 950 lbs sport bike does have its limits

I loved my GL,,,,,, But never keep up with the FJR on its turf.

Honda does have incredible quality.... I mean under the plastic too... IMHO

Well, because of my 2006 FJR1300AE leaving me stranded 4 times in the last year for electrical problems, I can't tell Harley jokes any more.

After my bike finally died because of the ignition switch, I had to pay the $185 dollar towing bill to the dealer.

Then AFTER the dealer replaced my ignition switch, I picked up the bike and it died again 4 miles from the dealer.

Yamaha's regional SUPER GURU is blaming my electrical accessories for the failure (even though there is NO PROOF), and I am now paying the dealer $400+ dollars to get the bike stock electrically so I can take off all my stuff for a garage sale coming up and trade / sell the bike for another GL1800.

Too many the GL1800 is boring ... but after what I have been through with the FJR for the past 7 months + my wife's breast cancer, I look forward to "boring" (and very DEPENDABLE)!

Best regards,

Shane

 

[luvtoride]

In response to downshifting in a curve: there is another really good reason for not downshifting in a curve other than upsetting the geometry. I think that others here will agree with me when I say that downshifting in a curve uses up tire traction that you may already be using because you're in a curve with the bike laid over.

 

[Cdogman]

In response to downshifting in a curve: there is another really good reason for not downshifting in a curve other than upsetting the geometry. I think that others here will agree with me when I say that downshifting in a curve uses up tire traction that you may already be using because you're in a curve with the bike laid over.

For me, it is not really a traction issue (unless you blow it trying to resync the drive train) but to do so you must transfer excessive load to the front tire when unloading the drive train.. This assumes you are at least at Maintenance throttle.

The best bet, IMHO, is to enter in the correct gear. Most of the time I find myself downshifting in a corner is I entered it way to slow for my gear.. or more commonly, I have decided to stay off the throttle due to something entering my sight line and I am slowing even further. Usually meaning I have decided to not play this corner.. for whatever reason.

I would imagine I shift in a corner so seldom that I don't really think about it.. I will generally stay my gear and learn from my mistake than try to correct it at speed.. I can always turn around and go back the try that corner again if I am that worried about it

 

[uctofeej]

And another thing, The quote was from Dave Cannet, editor, Cycle World! I think he knows more about bikes then you do.

I haven't participated much on the board lately, but this is worth a comment.

Canet also said that perhaps the CW staff wasn't getting something because so many owners spoke highly of the AE. I think they typically judge bikes based on their race-like ability. That's not the FJR's forte. Canet's idea of a tour is to take it a whopping 200 miles down the coast to Monterey. Big friggin' deal. I say sit his ass on one and let him charge across 3 or 4 southeastern states in mid July for a week averaging 600-800 miles a day (Atlanta traffic has to be navigated at least once). Then let's see if he "gets" the convenience of the AE clutch.

The AE is a personal choice, and trashing people who choose it kinda lame. They're probably the same kind of people who poo-poo'd air conditioning and automatic transmissions in cars, too. :blink:

 

[Bulldog9]

Yamaha's regional SUPER GURU is blaming my electrical accessories for the failure (even though there is NO PROOF), and I am now paying the dealer $400+ dollars to get the bike stock electrically so I can take off all my stuff for a garage sale coming up and trade / sell the bike for another GL1800.Shane

Hmmm, what did you do to your bike that requires $400 to repair/return to stock?? Best safe bet if you are adding more than heated grips or a power socket is to run all your farkles off a separate fuse block. I'm thinkning you must've done some serious cutting into your wires.