Garmin Basecamp Routing Issue

[Fred W]

Yeah, creating routes in Tyre or Google is easy, but the maps that you'll be creating those routes on are not the exact same ones that the GPS will be running them on. That can cause a lot of issues with those routes when you transfer them to the GPS and they recalculate to the GPS's maps.

For that reason, some people will create their maps in a graphic program like Tyre and then import them to BaseCamp or Mapsource. The map version you will have in BaseCamp will be the identical one you are running on your GPS so you will be able to see exactly how that route will be on the device.

I started out that way, using Google to draw routes, using GmaptoGPX to convert them, importing into Mapsource and massaging, then sending them off to the device. Eventually I cut out the first part and just became proficient in Mapsource, and can draw route up very quickly in that program. I've tried to become as proficient in BaseCamp but, quite honestly, I still prefer Mapsource.

If you have to learn one of the programs anyway, why not just skip to the chase scene and just learn BaseCamp?

 

[Cav47]

Tyre is practically as easy as Google Maps. I have used both, and still do at times. BaseCamp is still the best tool for creating routes for Garmin GPSRs. It's not that hard, but then it's also not very intuitive until you get going. That is a big reason Ed spends so much time at the beginning just going over file organization in My Collection. For me, Basecamp is almost as easy as Google Maps with the ability to drag routes, and it is better because if its innate ability to create silent via points rather than waypoints, and its capacity for much more complex mapping that causes the other ones to explode. Of course the import/export functions work directly with the GPS to quickly load routes in the GPS.
As always YMMV. I was responding to Josh who I know is a school teacher and has the ability to follow a structured learning plan. I think he will "get" this.

That is a wishful statement!! LOL.

Thanks Tom.

 

[Cav47]

I am feeling a tutorial session at SEOR over some beverages!!

 

[TomInPA]

Tyre is practically as easy as Google Maps. I have used both, and still do at times. BaseCamp is still the best tool for creating routes for Garmin GPSRs. It's not that hard, but then it's also not very intuitive until you get going. That is a big reason Ed spends so much time at the beginning just going over file organization in My Collection. For me, Basecamp is almost as easy as Google Maps with the ability to drag routes, and it is better because if its innate ability to create silent via points rather than waypoints, and its capacity for much more complex mapping that causes the other ones to explode. Of course the import/export functions work directly with the GPS to quickly load routes in the GPS.
As always YMMV. I was responding to Josh who I know is a school teacher and has the ability to follow a structured learning plan. I think he will "get" this.

That is a wishful statement!! LOL.

Thanks Tom.

As a retired senior citizen, I have boundless faith in our young people to do the hard work now.

I still map for beer ("beer" a product made from barley, hops water and other adjuncts, not that Platinum Light shit.).

 

[FJR-Pilot]

A day of your time and a 54 page tutorial manual to learn BaseCamp? .... Or 3 or 4 steps in Tyre?

It took me literally 10 minutes to create a 385 mile custom map route for my Saturday ride and load it onto my GPS. Been doing it this way for 3 years and it works great - so I am not sure what the advantage to BaseCamp is? Gotta go point A to point B through a set of desired way-points right?

Google Maps ---> import to Tyre ----> check route in Tyre ----> export to GPS ----> Done!

 

[Fred W]

You can talk it up all you want. You do not get the same results on the GPS with a route made in Tyre unless it is an extremely basic route, in which case you don't really need much of a route planner.

 

[TomInPA]

You can talk it up all you want. You do not get the same results on the GPS with a route made in Tyre unless it is an extremely basic route, in which case you don't really need much of a route planner.

You already mentioned the most compelling reason, accuracy. Creating routes on the same maps/coordinate as the one in the GPS. I ride with someone that creates maps in MS Streets and Trips and exports to GPX format which works with the Garmin (and other GPS). Using those routes unedited is one waypoint after another being announced, without a good sense of where the trip is going or when you will get there. Waypoints are frequently off the road or on intersections resulting in confusion as the GPS wants a U-Turn to get the missed waypoint, or last-second instruction pertaining to a turn.

I've learned to edit those in Basecamp and proof the locations of waypoints, and convert most of them to Vias. I always try to keep vias and waypoints out of intersections so turn instructions are not held in favor of "arriving at".

Everyone is welcome to choose what works best for them, but when navigating a route, it is very easy to determine if the route was made in BaseCamp or a different map base. I don't care what the others say about you Fred, you're a smart guy when it comes to tech stuff.

 

[FJR-Pilot]

What am I missing here? Can you be more specific about what is basic vs. complex? Tyre is an exceptional program and has handled everything I have thrown at it and has always been very accurate for our rides. Y'all seem to imply it's not an accurate program ("You do not get the same results on the GPS with a route made in Tyre") but if it ports every turn and every road over to the GPS wouldn't you say it is extremely accurate?

For example here is a Tyre-planned route I created for a trip we did on day 2 last fall (just re-opened it in Tyre). I consider it to be a pretty complex route - no? What is in Tyre is exactly what went onto the GPS so that part is accurate. It has 13 way points and goes on 19 different roads covering 262 miles. If that's a basic route for you then what is an example of a more complex route that you have to have BaseCamp for? I'm not trying to be obtuse Fred. I am just curious as to why you want to shoot down such an elegant and simple solution as Tyre is.

Not trying to start a war here but you gotta call a spade a spade.

 

[Morecowbell]

Google Maps ---> import to Tyre ----> check route in Tyre ----> export to GPS ----> Done!

That right there still sounds like a lot of work. Doesn't Google Maps limit you to about 15 via points? How can you set up a complex route with that? I use a Garmin Montana, which is really easy to program a route directly on the unit, with no importing or exporting required. It misbehaves occasionally during the route programming, but I can usually get a complex 500+ mile route with 45-50 via points input in 10 minutes or less. And then I can send that route wirelessly to my riding buddy's Montana because he sucks at routing. That's a neat feature to have.

With all this route programming being done via Basecamp or Tyre, I have to ask...what do you guys use for routing once you're actually out on the road? If I go on a 10+ day tour, I have my iPhone and the Garmin. I don't carry a laptop, so I'd have no way of using Basecamp or Tyre anyway. Trips plans get changed enroute due to weather or road closures, so it's great to have the flexibility to make up new routes as you go, directly on the GPS unit. I only have to know one method of programming to do that.

Someday I might study Basecamp in-depth to get a better understanding of how it works, but for now...I just do everything on the GPS unit itself.

 

[FJR-Pilot]

Google Maps ---> import to Tyre ----> check route in Tyre ----> export to GPS ----> Done!

That right there still sounds like a lot of work. Doesn't Google Maps limit you to about 15 via points? How can you set up a complex route with that? I use a Garmin Montana, which is really easy to program a route directly on the unit, with no importing or exporting required. It misbehaves occasionally during the route programming, but I can usually get a complex 500+ mile route with 45-50 via points input in 10 minutes or less. And then I can send that route wirelessly to my riding buddy's Montana because he sucks at routing. That's a neat feature to have.

With all this route programming being done via Basecamp or Tyre, I have to ask...what do you guys use for routing once you're actually out on the road? If I go on a 10+ day tour, I have my iPhone and the Garmin. I don't carry a laptop, so I'd have no way of using Basecamp or Tyre anyway. Trips plans get changed enroute due to weather or road closures, so it's great to have the flexibility to make up new routes as you go, directly on the GPS unit. I only have to know one method of programming to do that.

Someday I might study Basecamp in-depth to get a better understanding of how it works, but for now...I just do everything on the GPS unit itself.

What? Really? That seems to hard? I'm sure making correction on your GPS is easy. It is on mine too! Making a whole day plan on my GPS? No thanks.

"but I can usually get a complex 500+ mile route with 45-50 via points input in 10 minutes or less" that's good for you but I bet no one else does that. I wouldn't even try. I guess if you already know everything about your route you could do that. But then you would not even need the GPS if you already know everything about the route.

I do trip planning from my PC so I can more easily find information (like elevation changes, state and national park routes, camp sites, hotels, Google Street View to get actual street scenes of areas we're going into and to get familiar with turns, to better examine POI's, restaurants, and etc). Trip planning 101 cannot be done on a GPS very easily so I do it ahead of time on the PC and then export it into the GPS.

And truth be told > Google Maps ---> import to Tyre ----> check route in Tyre ----> export to GPS takes a few moments! It's simple! Why so against something so simple? The Google Maps part can take hours. It's called "trip planning." Now - that said - if I get out on a trip and need to make a path adjustment? Yeah. The GPS lets me easily modify the itinerary if I want. And I can even create a whole itinerary if I want. But I digress ...

 

[FJR-Pilot]

Doesn't Google Maps limit you to about 15 via points? How can you set up a complex route with that?

Oh. and to address the 15 or 20 limit in Google. Yes. Sometimes I run into the wall with Google on that. But guess what? Tyre has unlimited via points! So just do what you can in Google Maps, import into Tyre, and you can add via points till the cow[bell]s come home!

 

[TomInPA]

Who knew using BaseCamp would be controversial!

 

[Morecowbell]

The Google Maps part can take hours. It's called "trip planning."

Yep, you got that right. Some trips I just make up as I go with no real plan, but other trips get much more detailed. When I took the wife to New Zealand and rented a V-Strom last year, I spent many hours on Google Maps planning things out. I looked at various routes, and looked at the hotels and restaurants in the cities that we *might* stay in along the way. Street View in invaluable for scoping out the walk to a pub, for instance. Some places even had interior views and I could see what beers they had on tap. Very cool stuff. But when it came time to put the routes into the Garmin, I did it on the unit itself because I didn't know how far we'd make it each day, so I couldn't do it ahead of time on my PC. But when we rolled into a town at the end of the day, I knew which hotel to choose, and I knew where the pub was.

We both do the same thing...we just have different ways of attacking the problem.

 

[Fred W]

Here's an example in GPS Visualizer of somewhat complex route that I recently created in Mapsource for the upcoming FODS event. What I wanted to do was create a route that accurately follows the track log (also shown) breadcrumb trail that someone else sent me of a particular dual sport ride. For the most part I was able to recreate that track log, except in one section in the northeast corner where there is no road on the North America maps. If I had the topo maps for that far south I'm sure that would have been reproducible too.

The square route shaping points are "via points" and will not be announced by the GPS. The other icons are waypoints and will be announced by the GPS and of course each of the turns will be announced. You can't do that with Tyre or Googlemaps.

Because this route was created in Mapsource on the same version of maps as what is running on my GPS the route will not change when it gets uploaded and imported to the GPS device.

 

[wheatonFJR]

All these threads are useful to bring up issues to explore. Its all good.

 

[ericboutin]

All these threads are useful to bring up issues to explore. Its all good.

Yah except now I got a tab with Tyre, a tab with Mapsource, a tab with copilot, a tab with Learn Basecamp, a tab with google maps, a tab with how to export google maps into all these other freaking tabs, then I've got Basecamp open with Garmin express making sure all my maps are good.........my head is spinning and I'm not getting anything done!!! LOL All great information for sure! I actually didn't realize there was so many ways to get a route planned to be honest! Between this thread and this one..... https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/167221-gps-tablet/ ........I'm spending all my time researching maps and mapping techniques and mapping delivery systems that I'm not getting out and riding!! Think I'll wait for a rainy day to try and soak up all this info! LOL Great stuff!

 

[0Face]

All these threads are useful to bring up issues to explore. Its all good.

Says the guy who's GPS means Gravel Precision Source...

 

[wheatonFJR]

All these threads are useful to bring up issues to explore. Its all good.

Says the guy who's GPS means Gravel Precision Source...

Hey, I hate gravel probably more than you do. But I ain'ta scared of it neither.

 

[FJR-Pilot]

It is all good! If we aren't careful this could get out of hand ... like the endless "what's the best oil?" threads

Fred that is a more complex route than I normally plan - but it is something I think that Tyre would also handle quite easily. However comma one thing I do not think Tyre does is the "via points" that don't show like a way point. I am not positive but I don't think Tyre will input "silent" way points (via points). But I've just gotten used to placing my Tyre way point markers just a smidgen past each turn which is nice because then you always have a "distance to next turn" indicator. In any planner do NOT make the mistake of putting a way point marker too close in front of a turn! You'll hit the way point and then **BAM!** you gotta turn! That could be dangerous for you and the riders behind you using any GPS!

I tried to Google: "does tyretotravel do "via points" like garmin basecamp?" and did a real quick glance and could not find an answer to that. But it does pull up quite a few basecamp hater threads and a full 5 page thread over at ST-Owners titled: "Base Camp" VS. "TYRE" which brings up the same issue we seem to be dealing with LOL. You either love basecamp or you hate it based on what I've seen. I have never tried it but I gotta tell you Tyre is super simple and has a very strong following.

Unfortunately I am just about out of time for the day as I have to wrap up business and then get to prepping/packing/planning for my sat/sun ride.

We'll pick up our swords Monday and finish this battle to the death!!!!!

 

[Iris]

This is good; I'm glad I brought it up ;-)

I like having the via points silent because if they are not silent, my time and distance to the next via point announces and I don't know if it's a purposeful stop (ie: lunch, gas, coffee, scenic view, end of day...etc.).

I am really good at BaseCamp (I think) but agree that MapSource was a bit more simple and intuitive.

I can't map on a gps unit. I am much too controlling. I need to know that I have planned the best route ever (for the most part).

I am too afraid that when all my travels are done, that I will have ridden on a road that was not fun at all (when all along, I missed the really fun road right next to the one I was on).

That last statement is actually what happened that prompted me to bring this topic up.

Thanks for all the posts and options.