Gonna do tapered head bearings

[rbentnail]

With the tapered bearings I tightened to 45, backed off and retightened to 20. Went back in about a week and did it again as one of the seats "seated" a little more.

What about it haven't you liked?

 

[RossKean]

I reread the factory manual : tighten to 32, back off 1 revolution, tighten to 13 ft lbs. The lock nut is finger tight, and the steering nut at the top is 85! Ft lbs. Fyi: I havent been happy with mine since I put them in, I'm trying a few more things before i take them out and revert to stock.

The FSM torque may not be ideal for tapered bearings. A lot more surface area contact and may need a little more (or less?) torque. Not sure how the math works.

 

[kmanflyer]

This article is for Honda's, but it has some interesting info/perspective.

The Super Tenere uses tapered bearings 37 ft lbs. initial torque/13 ft lbs. final torque same as FJR with roller bearings.

The torque values for these tapered head bearings is starting to be like debating tire pressures.

Fun Stuff.

 

[ReRose]

Finally went for the 1st ride and much to my delight there is no wobble. It felt to tight so I backed off the stem nut from 25 to 20 and totally different bike for the good. If I do anything else with it I will take it down to 18 but at this moment I like it.

 

[PJ4863]

Not to take away from the original thread but:

They solved the head shake. However, now that the torque is right and adjusted correctly, the bike gets loose at out west highway speeds. Also, getting on the brakes causes it to get looser than it should. These are all new issues without touching anything else in the suspension. I'd rather the bike be tighter and more predictable at speed then the slight (correctable and predictable) wobble I was getting when I deceled through 45. If you've got a solution on how to maintain the bike being predictable and stable I'd love to hear it. Oh yeah.. I have over 1000 miles on the new bearings.

 

[RossKean]

How long since you checked the bearing torque? They may still need a little tweaking. Can't see how the "looseness" would be related to tapered bearings.

 

[kmanflyer]

Not to take away from the original thread but:They solved the head shake. However, now that the torque is right and adjusted correctly, the bike gets loose at out west highway speeds. Also, getting on the brakes causes it to get looser than it should. These are all new issues without touching anything else in the suspension. I'd rather the bike be tighter and more predictable at speed then the slight (correctable and predictable) wobble I was getting when I deceled through 45. If you've got a solution on how to maintain the bike being predictable and stable I'd love to hear it. Oh yeah.. I have over 1000 miles on the new bearings

I don't understand what you mean by loose. Do you mean traction loose or something is going to come flying off loose?

If it happened after you worked on the steering head bearings, I would retrace the assembly of that. Re torque wheel and forks according to the FSM etc.Check the front wheel bearings for sideways slop. Check rear wheel bearings, suspension linkage, swing arm bearings for excess play.

Do you still have the stock front springs and rear shock? What are your front and rear sag measurements?

Like Ross mentioned, properly installed steering head bearings (either stock or tapered) shouldn't cause bad handling.

I would check everything front to back if your feeling any kind of loose going on. I hope you find success!

 

[PJ4863]

Loose as in the bike doesnt feel as precise. Nothing else has changed except the bearings. The suspension was perfect prior to the bearings for me especially when I'm loaded down. I've torqued the head bearings down repeatedly with 2-300 miles between torques. I may need to bring it up a little bit. I'm not getting as much test riding as I want to for various reasons...

 

[kmanflyer]

I literally just did mine. Couple of lessons... polishing away! The lower bearing is a pain otherwise. I ended up developing a large burr/lip that had to be polished down. I used a dremel. The upper race drifted in easily. No fairing removal. Just the wheel and forks. Torque to 30 ft lbs as a final torque for the bearings, 80 ft lbs of the steering nut. Plan on retorqueing after about 100 miles or so. I've tried a bunch of different torques, 30 is the sweet spot. Otherwise, wasnt a hard job at all. Went pretty smoothly and minimal cussing.

Loose as in the bike doesnt feel as precise. Nothing else has changed except the bearings. The suspension was perfect prior to the bearings for me especially when I'm loaded down. I've torqued the head bearings down repeatedly with 2-300 miles between torques. I may need to bring it up a little bit. I'm not getting as much test riding as I want to for various reasons...

PJ4863, I sense you're getting a little frustrated with this head bearing job and I can understand because the result of your efforts is not adding up and coming up short. I would suggest taking a deep breath and take a step back. It always helps me anyway.

Keep in mind we are only trying to help and sometimes without actually having our own hands and eyes on your problem it can make it much more difficult to diagnose. You might not like what I'm about to suggest, and I hope I'm wrong. Based on your first post you talked about a burr and dremel tool and sanding. Also your first torque settings being quite high. Since your imprecise handling started after you changed the head bearings, I would take it completely back apart and make sure 1) the bearings spin free and are not damaged. 2)the races are not damaged, not crocked and are fully seated. 3) make sure the bottom bearing sits all the way down on the steering stem and is not loose on the stem. Hopefully all is good. If not correct whatever needs correcting. Assemble everything in accordance with the FSM. People always seem to forget to bounce the forks before torquing the axle and pinch bolt, shops included. This is only my suggestion based on your posts.

Maybe someone else could chime in with some different/better suggestions. Good Luck, I hope you figure it out.

 

[dcarver]

Something is wrong. I've done two FJR's and love the mod.

I know, I'll ride to Maggie Valley and take a look.

 

[PJ4863]

Frustrated yes.. but definitely have taken a step back. The bearings are seated correctly and everything aligned correctly upon reassembly. There was no I need a bigger hammer. Damage from the over tightening is a possibility. I think my next step is actually increase the torque minimally. Maybe another 2 ft lbs. (Or maybe decrease it by 2) Handling only seems to be an issue at higher speeds. Low speed is a non issue. Zero notchiness. I'm slowly dialing it in. I'm not quite ready yet to replace the tapered with stock bearings.

And dcarver, if I'm still having an issue by EOM, feel free to.swing by the homestead a day early and we will review everything to make sure I'm all good

 

[kmanflyer]

PJ4863, Is the imprecise feeling a "wandering" or a kind of "hunting" at speed?

 

[PJ4863]

The wandering or hunting is not it. That was when the torque was way too tight. Above 70, the steering seems to be twitchier. It's not wandering at all. Just seems unstable.

 

[ReRose]

Well I finally got it out for a ride last week. Between last Wednesday, Thursday and Friday we went 978 miles doing Illinois Indiana Ohio and Kentucky. The whole trip was back roads and only about 60 miles of interstate.The tapered head bearings that went in was sat at 25 ft lbs and wondered like a low tire so I reset at 20 ft lbs and it made a world of difference. I dropped it down to 17 ft lbs before the trip and the trip was the test. I also put a set of used Shinko R009's plus tightened up the stiffness of the rear shock with the knob on the bottom of the shock. End result is the bike was fantastic in them 3 days. Many roads we were on I think were no more than paved goat trails and the FJR was 2nd/3d gears between 3000 to 6000 and did not seem to care.

The bike kinda impressed me which is good since I bought it.

Last is that it is not a hard job to put tapered head bearings in and a great $40 investment.

 

[dcarver]

Well I finally got it out for a ride last week. Between last Wednesday, Thursday and Friday we went 978 miles doing Illinois Indiana Ohio and Kentucky. The whole trip was back roads and only about 60 miles of interstate.The tapered head bearings that went in was sat at 25 ft lbs and wondered like a low tire so I reset at 20 ft lbs and it made a world of difference. I dropped it down to 17 ft lbs before the trip and the trip was the test. I also put a set of used Shinko R009's plus tightened up the stiffness of the rear shock with the knob on the bottom of the shock. End result is the bike was fantastic in them 3 days. Many roads we were on I think were no more than paved goat trails and the FJR was 2nd/3d gears between 3000 to 6000 and did not seem to care.
The bike kinda impressed me which is good since I bought it.

Last is that it is not a hard job to put tapered head bearings in and a great $40 investment.

Kudos to you. You didn't blame 'the last thing done'. Wish I could learn more of that.

Happy to hear a good ending.

Often, many adjustments are in play.

Actually, ALWAYS *all* adjustments are in play.

Which makes it diffuclt.

 

[PJ4863]

Rerose, your final torque was 17? I think that's where I'm at now... but havent taken the bike out for a test ride yet. I was at factory spec of 13, but if you read above, you can see my issues

 

[ReRose]

Hi PJ, 1st there was a little wobble on decal and at 600 miles I did the re-tq to factory 13 lbs. At 3200 miles the factory Bridgestone's (front/back} had cupped-scalloped-waved or what ever tech term one wants to use and the wobble at decal was lotts worse. I did a re-tq to 17 lbs and no difference. The used set of Shinko's went on and still the same. Ordered the All-Balls tapered bearing kit and did the install with tq at 25 lbs which made the bike wander like a low tire but I run 40f/40r all the time without problems. I did a re-tq to 20 and all was good on a 10 minute ride between raindrops. The day before the 978 mile trip I changed oil in engine and pumpkin, set the rear shock firmer and did a re-tq to 17 lbs.

I did changes in stages to see what it did so the last 2 changes for the trip was firmer rear shock and 17 lb re-tq. I have tire changer - balancer and lift so it is easy for me to check everything as I go along. I have no wobble and it glides along better than it ever did.

 

[blue2006kcj]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="rbentnail" data-cid="1419800" data-time="1560800061"><p>

With the tapered bearings I tightened to 45, backed off and retightened to 20. Went back in about a week and did it again as one of the seats "seated" a little more.<br />

<br />

What about it haven't you liked?</p></blockquote>

 

[blue2006kcj]

Good to know #s. I re-tightened to 35ft lbs then loosened & torqued to 20ft lbs and still had wobble. Ill try again after I get my new front tire back on, using Russs 45 & 20 #s. I think the bearings must have gotten a little loose since we put in the All Balls back in May. I have driven about 500-600 miles when I notice the wobble returned.

 

[rbentnail]

Good to know #s. I re-tightened to 35ft lbs then loosened & torqued to 20ft lbs and still had wobble. Ill try again after I get my new front tire back on, using Russs 45 & 20 #s. I think the bearings must have gotten a little loose since we put in the All Balls back in May. I have driven about 500-600 miles when I notice the wobble returned.

I thought they might seat a little more, especially the bottom one. The way we had to 'squeeze and tap' kind of indicated that.