Agree. Especially the reliability issue. I don't want to be hundreds of miles from home and have a breakdown. And worry if there's a dealer "nearby" and face needing parts that will take 4 months to arrive. Too risky for me.
More RPM vs speedo but different...maybe
- Thread starter Gene Weygandt
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RossKean
Well-known member
I own a BMW (2017 F700GS) - bought a year ago for some dirt road riding/camping etc. It has been OK so far but due to dealer network alone I wouldn't have it as my only bike. There is one dealer within 300 miles and I would go to them only under duress (and they are 100 miles away). They are a multi-brand dealership and I have dealt with them for Yamaha stuff - not impressed. This particular bike is fairly easy to work on and I have a service manual (not available for newer BMWs). Parts by mail order, as needed. Newer BMWs are heavily inundated with complex electronic "stuff" which makes it difficult or impossible for a home mechanic to deal with. These parts are stupid expensive as well.
an-guy
hi
FJR wins in speed, handling, power, and cost of ownership.
BMW wins in comfort and technology. The newest FJR looks like a toy compared to any late model R1250RT in the technology department. Haven't changed in 10 years now...
Not everyone wants that, but I will someday when I have the money. For now I love the FJR and won't get rid of it either
RossKean
Well-known member
So, what does the technology do for you? I get that it looks cool, but doesn't really add to the riding experience, IMHO.
Also complicates troubleshooting and adds hugely to the initial cost and cost to repair.
"They aren't all bad..."
RossKean
Well-known member
As I said.
But even if reliability isn't an issue, initial cost, dealer network, lack of service manual, parts costs and service costs would steer me in the direction of a newer Japanese bike. Those things are unlikely to change.
I get that the technological bells and whistles on the BMW are pretty neat, but that matters less to me than some other factors. If someone wanted to give me the new R1300GS, I most certainly wouldn't turn it down, but it is an investment I wouldn't make unless I won the lottery.
Brand loyalty is interesting, isn't it? We all assimilate or accommodate and make the bike work for us. And our gear and riding style flows in turn. Sometimes even one's life style. Pick your brand and lots of folks wouldn't be caught dead on anything else. Others appreciate them all or bits and pieces. For example, if I could just figure out what exactly is appropriate to get tattooed for my FJR or for BMW's. Those HD guys have it easy!
an-guy
hi
Well I'm in my 20s so naturally we youngins have to have all the flashy lights.
Seriously though lol. For me it's the navigation, the cruise control (and active cruise control at that, no more of only one guy in the group can use CC)
Phone connectivity where you can change music with the bike, take calls and such.
I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I know what I want, when I can afford 20k on a bike.
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A lot of us here have been in our twenties several times but still like flashy lights, especially those bright enough to read by. For me, at least, when the phone rings while I'm listening to music and navigation instructions it just annoys me. I was in my twenties three times before I became a walking phone booth.
RossKean
Well-known member
I don't take calls or listen to music while riding although it can be done very easily using your phone/earbuds or through a modern GPS like a Garmin Zumo XT. (But can't use handlebar controls to change music) Zumo also provides excellent and easily readable navigation. I don't use CC and rarely ride in a group of more than one or two others. (I've had a bike with cruise and probably didn't use it more than a half dozen times in two years.) I can easily add electronic CC to my Gen II (or buy a Gen III) if I want. I admit that active cruise is nice in a car, but I have no need of it on a motorcycle. No question that the BMW electronics package is pretty cool and nicely integrated, but it doesn't offset some of the negative aspects (for me).
You don't HAVE to have it all, you just think you do. Mostly because you're a product of the social media generation and feel the need to be "connected".
Last thing I want in a bike is adaptive CC. I can see some stooge cutting in front of me too close only to have the CC slam on the brakes and pitch me over the bars. Phone calls? No thanks. Riding is my get away, leave me a voice mail and I'll get back to you when I feel like.
Different strokes for different folks.
In 1980, when I first started riding on my great "little" CX 500, I felt like once I was three days away, any "emergency" was all outta my hands. It was great! And the heads on that little V twin were in the perfect spot to reach down and warm my hands. Sure, I had to reach over and hold the throttle with my left hand in order to warm the right, but it worked. Years later I didn't think I cared much for the heated grips on the used BMW I bought in So Cal. Then I took an early morning ride and thought, "what a nice little luxury!" Now I wish my Gen II FJR had 'em. I put a 6"x8"x2" (approx) cassette player in my tank bag. Later, a Walkman in my pocket and a dozen tapes in the saddlebag. Now I want really swanky, $$$ noise cancelling earbuds. And I see ads for Hippo Hands...everything old is new again...except me. I'm just old. And young.
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torch
Well-known member
I have a helmet with bluetooth connectivity to music, phone and rider. Works with any bike. I have grip heaters that can be applied to the bars under any grips. I come with built-in adaptive cruise control but added a throttle lock to ease the tension on the actuator mechanism on long rides. Works well.
Why do I need BMW's bells and whistles again?
I'm not a brand-specific kind of guy, but Yamaha (and Honda) consistently rank at or near the top of reliability surveys year after year. BMW -- not so much. Consumer Reports data suggests that the most likely category of failure is electronic components, so perhaps that explains it. Now, relying on subjective data like owner surveys is fraught with peril, and statistics can be twisted to skew results, but where there's smoke, there's fire...
Why do I need BMW's bells and whistles again?
I'm not a brand-specific kind of guy, but Yamaha (and Honda) consistently rank at or near the top of reliability surveys year after year. BMW -- not so much. Consumer Reports data suggests that the most likely category of failure is electronic components, so perhaps that explains it. Now, relying on subjective data like owner surveys is fraught with peril, and statistics can be twisted to skew results, but where there's smoke, there's fire...
fastpappy
Well-known member
My first bike was kick start, air cooled not even a gas gauge. Next bike had electric start, water cooled, gas gauge, man we're talking high tech here. Look how far we've come. We even have fuel injection. No more turning off the petcocks and draining the carburetors. When I was young and looking at used cars for sale they used to advertise R&H (radio and heater), seriously how much do we really need. I ride because I love to ride. The feeling you get cruising down the highway or hitting some twisties. It blows the cobwebs out of your head. Guess I'm just an old dinosaur. 
an-guy
hi
No music??? Calls I understand. I don't get hardly any so it's usually someone trying to meet up with us or something. I just have a cardo packtalk bold. I've done the earbud thing before and it's terrible. These are speakers that go in your helmet and double as also allowing you and your friends to talk with eachother while riding. If nothing else, it makes everything WAY safer as the person in the front can warn everyone else of dangers. It's saved us a number of times.
In the winter, I don't do that much group riding. Weird how no one else wants to ride in the 30s. But in the summer about half of my miles are in a group, and after a while especially on a highway you wish you could just hit a button and the bike would just stay with the pack. CC will drift too close or too far from everyone else, ACC should just stay with everyone else. As for safety, I doubt it's any more dangerous than CC.
I do use a garmin GPS sometimes. It's always on my bike, the altimeter, compass, speed and trip data, and offline maps are all useful for me. The routing also has more options than basically any smartphone apps. These days I am really not a fan of phones.
an-guy
hi
Well, I am a younger person but on an old as fuck internet forum, not reddit/faceballs/tiktok/whatever people use now. Chances are pretty good I'm not on any more social media than you are...
I feel like if ACC did that, whoever designed it would be sued.
an-guy
hi
That is awesome! I just got a CD player the other day and I swear it's the coolest f--king way I've ever listened to music. It's got a giant clear top case so you can watch the CD spin. Again, flashy lights oooo lol
Compared to my VFR800, I have 1000% gotten used to the creature comforts of the FJR. It's great, especially for winter.
an-guy
hi
I was like this when I first started riding. But right now because the way I've chosen to set up my life, the minimum I spend on the bike every week is about 8 hours. The most is about 40. The whole "feeling the wind on you" and the floating sensation and all that is very nice, and one of the many reasons why I'd much rather ride than drive, but the entertainment value is not there at all anymore. Eventually you're just staring at some lines on the ground as you put along.My first bike was kick start, air cooled not even a gas gauge. Next bike had electric start, water cooled, gas gauge, man we're talking high tech here. Look how far we've come. We even have fuel injection. No more turning off the petcocks and draining the carburetors. When I was young and looking at used cars for sale they used to advertise R&H (radio and heater), seriously how much do we really need. I ride because I love to ride. The feeling you get cruising down the highway or hitting some twisties. It blows the cobwebs out of your head. Guess I'm just an old dinosaur.
Music is a minimum, which is done via bluetooth helmet. Sometimes when commuting at night I listen to youtube or a less enthralling TV show. Berate me as much as everyone likes, but it works great for me.
Edit: wow this thread got really far off track. rofl
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RossKean
Well-known member
After a lifetime of loud music, target shooting, lawn mowing, leaf blowing and motorsports (not to mention genetics), I have significant degradation in my hearing. I never ride without earplugs anymore as I want to protect what hearing I have left. I had one of the earlier Sena comm systems and didn't really use it - for communication or music. I won't ride without earplugs and if the volume is turned up enough to hear the helmet speakers, you might as well not bother with the plugs. There is an option to use the Sena with wired earbuds but this is uncomfortable and doesn't sufficiently reduce ambient noise anyway. I looked into custom molded earbuds and then decided it was something I didn't really need.
Depending on what is going on (trips, weather, other activities etc.) this is similar to my riding pattern. I have done up to 60 or 70 hours in a week on a long trip when I needed to cover distance. That is a bit of a grind.
Each to his own with respect to music, phone calls etc. Since I rarely ride in any sort of group, the communications thing is irrelevant. My GPS links with my phone so I get notifications of email, phone calls and text messages on the screen (unless I disable the feature).
an-guy
hi
I will definitely agree on the hearing part and add that wind protection (like the giant windshields you can get) are a major part of why I bought an FJR. My commute is 3 hours one way, so 6 hours a week. On my VFR by the time I got to work or home my ears were ringing pretty bad. On the FJR they rarely ring after several hours. I don't blame anyone for wearing earplugs though but what I will say is you can get ones that only filter a certain range of frequencies that are damaging to your hearing. Just food for thought
