New cruise control get flaky with time/miles

[kballowe]

Alright, packed the servo unit with cold packs today. In fact, the whole front seat compartment and half the back. Ahhhh, air-conditioned seat. :yahoo:

The short story is that it's the same as before.

Tomorrow I'll take it over and have Father bless it.

Couldn't hurt. :glare:

 

[Kevin Daly]

Alright, packed the servo unit with cold packs today. In fact, the whole front seat compartment and half the back. Ahhhh, air-conditioned seat. :yahoo:
The short story is that it's the same as before.

Tomorrow I'll take it over and have Father bless it.

Couldn't hurt. :glare:

kballowe,

Are all of the electronics on the servo unit?? The servo may be functioning fine (i imagine it is like a stepper moter, which would be very heat tollerant) but not being properly controlled. before you get it blessed I would look at trying to cool or shield the electronics if it wasnt included. Again, my ingnorance may be showing since i have never seen one of these things.

So actually i just pulled up some pics of this system, doesnt look like there is much there. I know a good miricle healer in Omaha NE :glare:

 

[kballowe]

Yeah, the circuit card assembly is integrated with the servo. Then you have the cable assembly for the throttle and a few wires to hook up here and there. Even switched the ground here and there - thinking it could be a grounding problem. Didn't act like it - being so consistent - but never hurts to try something, then you can rule it out. Late yesterday (after the cold pack treatment) I isolated the brake circuit and tried it again. Well, that didn't do it.

After that, I got bored and added a power outlet to the Wing. Now I just need to find something to plug into it.

I really was hoping that adding an additional vacuum canister would improve its' performance. My Wing has a vacuum canister the size of a one pound coffee can (that's what got me thinking).

We did one on a Honda VTX and initially had some problems but it turned out to be that the cable was in a bit of a bind. Easy fix. Did two more and they've been in service more than two years and no problems. These have 1 1/2" PVC vacuum canisters about eight inches long.

Just bad karma, I guess.

I'll be in the market for a throttle lock of some sort.......... Any suggestions?

 

[rfulcher]

My next step in problem solving may be to run all of the ground wires directly to the battery instead of the frame. If that does not fix it I will run all of the leads directly to the battery, maybe even to an external battery (I will borrow one from my Bandit 600) on a temporary basis. Then maybe use the magnetic pickup. If I go that far the only connections will be the vacuum and throttle connection.

The next step would be to take a known good unit and switch it with a bad unit and see if the malfunctions stays with the bike or moves with the servo.

What a PIA.

Ross

 

[ionbeam]

When all else fails -- click the pixs.



I expected Thug to have suggested this as a fix long ago Expect sticker shock at the price.

My next step in problem solving may be to run all of the ground wires directly to the battery instead of the frame.

Frame grounds are not good grounds. Good idea to get the ground wires to the battery, either directly or through a ground strip.

 

[Alex]

Well I’ve been using the Cruise for a few hundred more miles on my install.

First off, I'm the guy that routed the cable along with the stock throttle pull cable, so I KNOW that is not the issuse. There is no binding or possibility of it binding. (I haven't had the bike apart with the camera handy to take pictures lately, but I'll post them)

2nd, I'm definitely now thinking that I'm not getting a clear reading from the coil. I've done all the above testing, and replaced the entire servo. One thing that I found while doing the install was the fact that the instructions printed from this forum had the grey w/red stripe wire on the wrong side of the coil pack. Now keep in mind that I had 3 new 07's in my garage at the time. All bikes were configured this way. I initially hooked up the CC to the exact same spot as the pictures, and then went for a ride. It would briefly accelerate when I hit accel, but never hold any speed. I then tried throwing a volt meter on it, but both sides of the coil read +, and same for each coil.

I then hooked it to the other side of the coil (can't remember the color of the wire) and the cruise worked fine.......for 20 miles.

I think that the bike must be making some adjustments of the coil output after running for some time. This is the only thing I can think would be the problem.

 

[ionbeam]

The two ignition coils share a common red/black wire that should be a solid 12 VDC (switched ignition voltage). The gray/red wire and the solid orange wire come from the ECU and deliver the trigger signal to the coils. The red/black wire shouldn't work at all unless the AVCC was able to trigger off of tiny residual voltage spikes on the r/b wire. You should be hooked up to either the gray/red wire or the solid orange wire.

The guys that have hooked up the magnetic pickup without success should indicate that the problem for them is not the coil signal.

 

[bmwhd]

FWIW, mine continues to work fine. '06A with servo and vacuum canister under the seat. Napa dual port check valve and single tap off cyl 4. Coil signal off grey/red wire. Brake lights on relay since I have Kisan tailBlazer bulbs.

I also feel strongly that heat is going to be a root cause on this but I'd still like to see one of the guys having issues hook up a volt meter to the purple wire and take readings while the unit is failing.

 

[kballowe]

Mine is NOT coil related. Coil wire has been removed.

Currently using the speed-sensor with two magnets @ 180 degrees.

 

[Alex]

This weekend I added an extra 8" vacuum canister and that made no difference. I then removed both 8" pieces and ran with just the CC, no reservoir. Same results.

I'll keep tryin', but even with these problems, I still like having the cruise.

 

[kballowe]

So you ran the CC without a vacuum canister? Just connected the servo direct to the engine?

And that made no difference in the function one way or another?

We did this on a VTX once (no vacuum canister), but it would kick-out on the long hills, every time.

 

[Alex]

So you ran the CC without a vacuum canister? Just connected the servo direct to the engine?
And that made no difference in the function one way or another?

We did this on a VTX once (no vacuum canister), but it would kick-out on the long hills, every time.

Well, it's flat around here, but it worked like before. Ran for 10 minutes or so, then abruptly cut off. It might of run longer, but it had the same symptoms with large amounts of stored vaccum and with none stored.

I've replaced everything but the bike ;-) That's what keeps leading me back to the voltage input from the coil.

 

[Inlaw1]

It's almost as if the servo/controller was temperature sensitive and got flaky as it was used (warmed up). I haven't found any correlation to road conditions (flat/climbing) or speed. When this has happened, I've stopped for a bit, got back out on the highway and it will work again for awhile and then start acting up again.

I'm wondering the same thing with my problem. I've had an erratic cut out for a while now. I thought it the control pad, but after replacing it and water proofing it (thanks v65 and kaitsdad) I still have the same problem. I began to notice it always happened after stopping for a short break and getting back on the bike. I will assume yours is mounted the same place mine is, up under the tank, under the water cross over pipe (06 model). Which means it's right next to a heat source. After parking and sitting a bit the temps will rise under the tank of course.

When starting out from these short breaks the thing will want to cut out... sometimes after one second, sometimes after a half a minute. It varies wildly. But it will cut out. After riding it a bit and letting air blow under the tank and cool things off it works much better, sometime not cutting out at all, other times cutting out at random times. On the way home from AR Sunday it worked great all morning. But when the ambient temps started climbing to the mid and upper 80's it started to cut out randomly. Sometimes every 5 minutes sometimes it would work for 15-30. But it would cut out and I noticed the warmer it got outside the more frequent it cut out. Yesterday on my ride down from Waco it was mid 60's and rain and the thing never cut out.

< snip >

After reading that Smitty's CC problems were on bikes that had the servo mounted under the seat and one other here that is having similar problems that has his servo mounted under the seat I'm questioning whether heat has anything to do with this. Mine does act up more often when it gets hot, but doesn't act up as often as some mentioned here. And there is one here that is acting up no matter what the temp is.

For now I'll have to live with it. I plan on going over all my connections, but since others have pretty much tried this and more I doubt I'll find a cure. Hope someone smarter than I figures this out soon not just for myself but everyone else that is having this problem on the Gen II bikes.

 

[kballowe]

The next thing to try is to shield all of the wiring and the electronics. You could use shielded, twisted-pair cable (actually better shielding than co-ax) and then wrap the servo unit completely in two layers of aluminum foil, making sure to ground the shielding.

This is assuming that there is some sort of EMI. Or it could also be a buildup of some sort of resistive charge (over time) with a slow bleed-off.

I've already added a diode in the ground circuit to rule out the possibility of bleed-back thru the ground.

So, who wants to try my tin-foil idea? C'mon - don't be shy.

:construction:

 

[kballowe]

Anyone?

 

[rfulcher]

I'll bet you guys thought this thread was dead. Well I am still working on my AVCC. I tried one more experiment.

The coil pickup remains on the coil and the power wire to the control unit is still hot thru the wiring harness. All of the ground leads and the hot lead from the servo go directly to the battery. This did not accomplish anything. The AVCC still started to get flaky after approx 30 minutes.

I guess the next test will be to run the control pad power lead directly to the battery. If I do this then all of the power leads will be independent of the bike electrical system.

It may be a while since I have lots of other stuff going on right now.

Has anybody been able to get one of the problem AVCC's to work 2nd generation FJR??

 

[sirryan]

I'll bet you guys thought this thread was dead. Well I am still working on my AVCC. I tried one more experiment.
The coil pickup remains on the coil and the power wire to the control unit is still hot thru the wiring harness. All of the ground leads and the hot lead from the servo go directly to the battery. This did not accomplish anything. The AVCC still started to get flaky after approx 30 minutes.

I guess the next test will be to run the control pad power lead directly to the battery. If I do this then all of the power leads will be independent of the bike electrical system.

It may be a while since I have lots of other stuff going on right now.

Has anybody been able to get one of the problem AVCC's to work 2nd generation FJR??

Well, I've been following this post since it's inception, so many pages ago, and with great interest since I installed an AVCC on my '06. It was working fine and I didn't feel right posting that information since I was only commuting daily and have about a 30 mile ride, of which 15 miles would have been the maximum length of constant use of the AVCC.

This past weekend, I finally was able to get out of town and put on 1k miles (2 up), of which much of it was with the AVCC, and it performed flawlessly. I'll try to remember and detail the "important" parts of my install below.

Servo mounting location: Front of swingarm, bolted to rear of engine (I think V65 mounted his here. I'd be curious to see if his is working well, although I don't remember if it was a genII. I chose this location because I wanted the underseat space for other things and also didn't like the sharp bend that would have to happen to the servo cable if mounted in the under seat location.

Vacuum canister: Home made 1 1/2 inch PVC, about 4 inches long with two taps and lines. One line from cylinder 4 with a check valve installed and one to servo unit. I've mounted this in the space in front of the rear fender, behind the abs control.

Throttle tang: Drilled and mounted with beaded chain and made a plastic piece to help with the bend out of cable housing. Spent extra time here to make sure that everything moved without any binding.

Coil input wire location: on the coil wire under right dash panel.

Brake cancel wire location: on the connecter under seat.

Ground wire: to frame of bike.

Power, to fuse block (don't remember the fuse #, but I think it was 3A Accecory.

All wires and looms were heavily electrical taped and then wires over engine were also wrapped in plastic loom material.

Other things: One throttle return spring has been undone. I left a little more throttle cable free play than I usually would so that I would not kick off the cruise when holding on to the bars. After taking the servo unit apart to weatherize it, I did have a problem trying to keep the tine o-rings in when putting it back together. It would be easy to loose one of these and not notice it. I was also trying to put it together inside of the swingarm, so that made it more difficult.

I know that this all has been covered previously in the thread, but thought it might help, and that it would help to know that the AVCC is working perfectly on a GEN II. I know that there are plenty others that are working as well. Wish I could look at some of the bikes that are not working, and help with trying to diagnose this as at this point, it seems to be a hands on type of problem.

If there is anything I missed, and you think is important, let me know. It's been a couple of months since I installed it and don't remember everything about it at this point, but would be happy to pull apart and look at anything that might help.

Good luck. Keep at it.

Can anyone say PERSISTENCE!!!!!!

.........oops. that was kind of long. if you just read this whole post, immediately get yourself a beer, or a coffee, depending on time of day...................

 

[MKO]

I know that this all has been covered previously in the thread, but thought it might help, and that it would help to know that the AVCC is working perfectly on a GEN II. I know that there are plenty others that are working as well. Good luck. Keep at it.

Can anyone say PERSISTENCE!!!!!!

.........oops. that was kind of long. if you just read this whole post, immediately get yourself a beer, or a coffee, depending on time of day...................

Ryan, Thanks for the detail. I was ready for a refill on the coffee after reading the new thread since my last visit.

I have thought about the tight bend that the servo cable makes in the underseat location but why would it work when cold (and stiff) and not when hot? I think you might be on to something else with you swing arm location, but I'm not sure what. The cold pack experiment seemed to rule out the heat theory, but maybe there are a number of factors that conspire to cause the failure and heat is only one of them.

I'd like to hear From other gen II installations that are working to explore mounting location variations before re-doing the whole installation.

 

[dirttracker30]

I've had mine installed since a week or two before I rode to Daytona in march (from the Smitty's Ranch,Thanks again bronce) and i've done 9000 miles since march, and mine still performs great .I can set it at 90mph and it will do it all day long without failing. Mine is the underseat install,hooked to coil ,sealed pad with skyway mount.single port vacuum with single port napa check valve.1 1/2 pvc x4" long can,beaded chain for throttle hookup,tapped into the wires going back the left side to brake(can't remember color,but it is diff on 06 from the 05 instructions.maybe I got lucky but I don't have a clue on what you could try next. Sorry. If you ever do figure it out you will be in heaven going down the interstate!

 

[Brutane]

Hello to all you frustrated AVCC tinkerers and users.

I installed the AVCC nearly two years ago in my '04 FJR-S.

It worked flawlessly on my daily 60 mile RT commute and on two multi state vacations.....until a torrential rain storm killed it. No... I wasn't riding in the rain on "cruise".

I assumed.... incorrectly, that water had penetrated the densely RTV sealed control unit on the left handlebar. After taking it down and bench testing it, and finding nothing wrong I put it back on the handlebar hoping all would be good. No banana there... it was still dead. Then I pulled the tank and checked the vacuum and linkages to see if anything was amiss. Nothing was. Still didn't work. The panel lights lit, the engage light lit.... but nothing happens. Having exhausted all my technical skill I opted for another AVCC from BrandsPlace.Com for $89US. https://www.brandsplace.com/0002-ccs100.html I unplugged the wiring block and disconnected the linkage to the existing servo and replaced it with the new one and left "ALL" other parts in place from the original install. It has now been working perfectly for six weeks and through several southern down pours without a blip. Since I live in the flat lands and the only true test of the AVCC was last year when I was in the Smoky Mountains I can't say that I had stressed the old unit to much, but it did endure daily use without the annoying problems discussed here.

Now having gone through all this blah blah blah... I'm aware that my servo unit may have succumbed to a short from the rain and has little in common with the other maladies discussed in this thread. I'd just like to pose a "what if".

What if there was moisture/humidity sequestered inside the servo enough that it didn't toast the unit but caused intermittent and erratic behavior?

My servo is just ahead of the rear brake fluid reservoir, with the wiring block exiting the servos rear at a point closest to the pavement. A Place where any errant splooge might make it's way in. It is angled up at about ten degrees from the horizontal. The old unit came out with a uniform light dusting of road grime but no visible evidence of being submarined in a puddle. I could not hear any water sloshing around inside the unit. If a small amount of water settled low in the back of the servo near where the wiring harness exits could it cause an intermittent short?

I don't know if this helps or only serves to deepen the mystery. I haven't taken a hammer to the old servo yet. Rest assured if I find anything unusual you'll be the first to know.

Steve

For those of you still reading and possibly interested in how mine is set up... here goes.

I used the AVCC tutorial for a Honda Valkyrie as a template for my install.

I used four vacuum take offs with check valves and standard automotive vacuum hose between the ports and a common collecting manifold leading to the homemade vacuum canister (2" PVC capped at both ends) and using a brass nipple for fitting. The Blue wire goes to the coil as required. The hot line and control panel lighting are both wired to a fused and relay protected bus bar from the battery. The grounds are to the frame. T-Bar in front and right side body anchor in the rear. Rear brake light circuit handles the servo release. All wiring is routed down the right side of the frame and ty-wrapped. The connection to the brake circuit is a vampire tap ( I know I know ... unacceptable).