Sad morning in my garage

[slapnpop]

My service manual indicates 1,600 kPa @ 400 RPM. This converts as 1,600 kilopascal = 232.060 pound/square inch.

Service manual is early model Euro version, but as far as I know engine was unchanged. Others can chime in to verify.

 

[ionbeam]

Similar to slapn', my manual sez: 1,600 kPa @ 400 RPM; 1,600 kilopascal = 228.0 pound/square inch. Note may manual explicitly says 228 PSI.

Your compression measurement can be effected by the charge state of your battery. It is important that the cranking rate does not change as you go through the cylinders or the compression readings will change as cranking speed drops.

 

[wallypiper]

Anybody care to speculate on the compression readings Bill got?

Though all are low compared to the manual, the difference is only 5% on the low cylinder.

Was it cold?

 

[Rogue]

My manuel says:

"1,600kPa (16kg/cm2, 228psi) at 400 r/min"

Page 2-2

 

[Turboduck]

Hi and thanks for the numbers. I left the shop manual at the shop, so I will check it on Tuesday. I am eagar to see if that number of 228 is normal or the max limit. Even more eagar to find Wally's noise. Battery isn't an issue here as I checked all cylinders twice. Wally had mentioned some early FJR's had some valve guide issues. This noise is a heavier/ deeper noise that I have ever heard valve train make. Again, thanks for all of your help on Wally's scoot. I will need to send you all commission.

(Don't worry Wally, I won't charge you for research done on my time) See ya, Bill

 

[ionbeam]

AT SEA LEVEL min compression is 198 psi; standard is 228 psi; maximum 255 psi. Compression goes down as altitude goes up -- are you pretty high? :drag:

It is great that all cylinders are within 5%. I don't think there is a problem with the compression.

You can put a small amount of oil in the cylinders to see if the compression comes up. The 1300 has special coatings on the cylinder walls making them only slightly softer than diamonds so cylinder wear shouldn't be a problem. That leaves rings, valve seats and valve timing.

 

[dcarver]

Imagine that.. TurboDuck posting on the FJR site.. Kudos dude, Kudos.

 

[Turboduck]

Wow you guys are great! Wally's engine was at 160 degrees f. We had been running it a bit and listening real hard. Our altitude is probably between 1000 and 1200 feet asl. I am searching all around for some info that may help NOT have to go inside Wallys engine and again, THANKS for your concern. Bill

Oh by the way, the other day when I was looking at the clutch basket for foreign objets in the primary gears, I notices the shock damper springs in the backing plate were loose. That is, Three of them were loose enough to rattle. While I am confident that this is not the source of our noise, it did seem unusual for them to be loose. And, from what Wally says, he is not one to snatch wheelies and flog the bike and there are no signs of it having been flogged. So, is it common on FJR clutch baskets to have rattly springs?

dcarver,,, hmmm, I guess I should know ya,,, especially since you list that you have a KraZee 1300. Zoom that thing by the shop one of these days. I just sold my KZ about two months ago. I need another one,,, or maybe,,, just maybe,,, if Suzuki brings that Stratosphere to the states.... Say, I wonder If I could just put a Kawasaki sticker on the gas tank?!?

 

[smitty141]

Could it be a counter balancer... Smitty

 

[dcarver]

Wow you guys are great! Wally's engine was at 160 degrees f. We had been running it a bit and listening real hard. Our altitude is probably between 1000 and 1200 feet asl. I am searching all around for some info that may help NOT have to go inside Wallys engine and again, THANKS for your concern. Bill
Oh by the way, the other day when I was looking at the clutch basket for foreign objets in the primary gears, I notices the shock damper springs in the backing plate were loose. That is, Three of them were loose enough to rattle. While I am confident that this is not the source of our noise, it did seem unusual for them to be loose. And, from what Wally says, he is not one to snatch wheelies and flog the bike and there are no signs of it having been flogged. So, is it common on FJR clutch baskets to have rattly springs?

dcarver,,, hmmm, I guess I should know ya,,, especially since you list that you have a KraZee 1300. Zoom that thing by the shop one of these days. I just sold my KZ about two months ago. I need another one,,, or maybe,,, just maybe,,, if Suzuki brings that Stratosphere to the states.... Say, I wonder If I could just put a Kawasaki sticker on the gas tank?!?

Minor thread hijack.. TurboDuck.. where are you? No listing on personal info.. Are you competent with the Kz1300 engine? PM me if so. Mine needs help. Burned oil since day one. Out of round cylinders from the factory. Ok, enough hijack.. PM if you are interested.. Thanks. dcarver

 

[Turboduck]

Note to dcarver... I dropped you an e-mail. If you wish to call me at work (Marietta Motorsports) tomorrow, the number is 770-425-5252. Thanks And yes, I do know KZ1300s and your oil consumption was a common problem. The cylinders are not out of round. Thanks, Bill

 

[radman]

Hasn't Kaw had piston/ring probs on several motors, most notoriously Bandit 1200's? Kaw engineers are just all nostalgic cuz of the Mach motors, and think it ain't right unless smoke boils out of the pipes on accel.....

 

[Rogue]

Hasn't Kaw had piston/ring probs on several motors, most notoriously Bandit 1200's? Kaw engineers are just all nostalgic cuz of the Mach motors, and think it ain't right unless smoke boils out of the pipes on accel.....

I don't think Kawi had any problems with this Suzuki motor.

 

[S76]

Not to muddy the water here, and just a W.A.G. of course, but how about a loose alternator rotor banging around on the keyway???

 

[radman]

Hasn't Kaw had piston/ring probs on several motors, most notoriously Bandit 1200's? Kaw engineers are just all nostalgic cuz of the Mach motors, and think it ain't right unless smoke boils out of the pipes on accel.....

I don't think Kawi had any problems with this Suzuki motor.

Yur right, brain fart. All them ricers are alike anyways, aren't they???

 

[Geezer]

I had one of those 2 cycle Mach's back in the '70's. When a cager did something stupid it was a pleasure to get in front of them and 'give 'em some smoke'.

 

[wallypiper]

:yahoo:

All is OK.

This is all they found.

1. Heavy carbon buildup in the cylinder head or on a valve or on a piston. It is theorized (based on similar situations on other motors) that a chunk of carbon deposit breaks off and lands in the squish band near the edge of a piston. The piston then smashes this chunk against the head which makes the noise. It just keeps doing this until the chunk gets smashed enough to stop OR somebody sprays a fine mist of water into the air intake and steam cleans the combustion chambers which is what they did.

2. As they were looking at the valve train for problems there, they got all the slack in the chain onto the tensioner side and - click - the tensioner moved one notch in.

That's it.

The noise is gone.

They said that when they gave it the steam treatment a very large cloud of soot blew out.

Moral of story. Spend more time at 7k and above to keep the hot parts clean. I know that some of you are thinking that I panicked over some very small noise but that really isn't the case. The noise was alarming in its intensity and its metal to metal tone.

I ran across some photos the other day of, I think, Warchilds heads and pistons and there was a heavy buildup of carbon. I can't find the photos at the moment. So find youself a bit of road with some room to stretch your legs and reach for that rev limiter every now and then. It may help.

So I, Huey's contact at Yamaha and probably the FJR community at large to some extent are relieved that this did not turn out to be a mettalurgical failure of some kind.

Sorry to worry you. Everybody carry on.

 

[fjrjonesing]

:yahoo: All is OK.

(snipped)

Bully! Happy to hear.

Jim

 

[dcarver]

Great news for both of us!

You got your bike fixed for cheap..

and I found a KZ1300 mechanic! :yahoo:

 

[mech 1 twa]

There are many fuel additives that will remove carbon build up.

Techron, Seafoam and others.

Add to gas for a tankfull or 2. Follow directions on bottle, mix well. 1 ounce per gallon usually.

I like to use these just before oil change is due. Loosened junk has to go somewhere.

Cleans injectors, intake valves, combustion chamber and piston tops. FYI