Tablet-based cockpit?
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Mogan
Well-known member
All good points.
I do use radar and have played with numerous setups over the years. The last time I almost gave up on radar I was 20 miles from home on a 3,000 mile journey and got a ticket. UGGGH!
I've largely opted out of audio-based signal alerts for radar. Too many false alarms that become annoying when you're listening to good music or trying to get nav instructions. I've tried both an LED visual alert block...not bad, but I like the HARD system. A bit intrusive when you're putting you're helmet on, but a great visual alert that you always see and it's not annoying.
I can see a place for a second GPS, but I do have some real estate issues with my cockpit layout. I have an ANT backup camera LCD installed on my stem mount. I've actually never seen this setup on any other street bike, but I find it a nice to have feature that most autos have these days. And, it's much more handy on a bike than a car as you have no rear view mirror and can't exactly turn around 180 degrees in a helmet and see what's going on.
I may augment my new setup with a small tablet at some point to serve as auxiliary GPS and music server.
As always, suggestions and comments are welcome.
Mogan
I do use radar and have played with numerous setups over the years. The last time I almost gave up on radar I was 20 miles from home on a 3,000 mile journey and got a ticket. UGGGH!
I've largely opted out of audio-based signal alerts for radar. Too many false alarms that become annoying when you're listening to good music or trying to get nav instructions. I've tried both an LED visual alert block...not bad, but I like the HARD system. A bit intrusive when you're putting you're helmet on, but a great visual alert that you always see and it's not annoying.
I can see a place for a second GPS, but I do have some real estate issues with my cockpit layout. I have an ANT backup camera LCD installed on my stem mount. I've actually never seen this setup on any other street bike, but I find it a nice to have feature that most autos have these days. And, it's much more handy on a bike than a car as you have no rear view mirror and can't exactly turn around 180 degrees in a helmet and see what's going on.
I may augment my new setup with a small tablet at some point to serve as auxiliary GPS and music server.As always, suggestions and comments are welcome.
Mogan
The problem with anything depending on cell signals or wifi is that many parts of the country have neither.
russperry
Well-known member
My $0.02
I think that the phone (or tablet with radio) and Sena headsets can do almost everything a "regular" rider needs - by regular I mean non-rally competitor. A single smartphone (being IOS or Android agnostic) can do the following:
1) Run multiple GPS packages simultaneously - navigation, tracking, etc... whatever you like. I think this is a great advantage compared to a dedicated GPS which only does what it does and when you get tired of it you need a new one - with the phone/app approach you can change whenever you want, and usually for free. But as stated, something like CoPilot for $10 lets you use active nav even when out of cell coverage. And I use Motion-X GPS as a trip tracker which is free and is great - let's you record your routes, speeds, elevation changes, tag stops with waypoints and photos, etc....
2) Location mapping for others to watch your progress via either Bubbler or SWConnect (forget the SPOT annual fee unless you want the emergency signal - and don't rely on SpotWalla for relaying emergency signals to your buddies - it DOES NOT WORK for that)
3) Music (on board music or streaming when in range)
4) Telephone
5) Intercom (with at least 3 others including a pillion)
The only negative I have with the bluetooth approach is battery life. On long riding days (> 8 hours) I've had to ride many hours with USB power connected to the Sena headset so you have to be careful about how you move your head - that micro USB connector in the headset was not intended to bear a lot of stress. I've got power coming out of my tank bag so it works, but it is a pain.
When you start adding things like radar detectors and GPRS or satellite radios then you have to go with something like the Sena SR10 but it adds complication to the pairing sequence and lots of cockpit clutter.
I'm a firm believer in the phone+Sena, but if you have lots of pieces of gear to connect and/or will ride lots of 8+ hours days, then an autocom setup with hard-wired power is probably the better way to go.
I think that the phone (or tablet with radio) and Sena headsets can do almost everything a "regular" rider needs - by regular I mean non-rally competitor. A single smartphone (being IOS or Android agnostic) can do the following:
1) Run multiple GPS packages simultaneously - navigation, tracking, etc... whatever you like. I think this is a great advantage compared to a dedicated GPS which only does what it does and when you get tired of it you need a new one - with the phone/app approach you can change whenever you want, and usually for free. But as stated, something like CoPilot for $10 lets you use active nav even when out of cell coverage. And I use Motion-X GPS as a trip tracker which is free and is great - let's you record your routes, speeds, elevation changes, tag stops with waypoints and photos, etc....
2) Location mapping for others to watch your progress via either Bubbler or SWConnect (forget the SPOT annual fee unless you want the emergency signal - and don't rely on SpotWalla for relaying emergency signals to your buddies - it DOES NOT WORK for that)
3) Music (on board music or streaming when in range)
4) Telephone
5) Intercom (with at least 3 others including a pillion)
The only negative I have with the bluetooth approach is battery life. On long riding days (> 8 hours) I've had to ride many hours with USB power connected to the Sena headset so you have to be careful about how you move your head - that micro USB connector in the headset was not intended to bear a lot of stress. I've got power coming out of my tank bag so it works, but it is a pain.
When you start adding things like radar detectors and GPRS or satellite radios then you have to go with something like the Sena SR10 but it adds complication to the pairing sequence and lots of cockpit clutter.
I'm a firm believer in the phone+Sena, but if you have lots of pieces of gear to connect and/or will ride lots of 8+ hours days, then an autocom setup with hard-wired power is probably the better way to go.
Twigg
Just an old, bald man!
Just a note to say that multi-day rides with the Sena SMH10 are not much of an issue.
The battery charging is something you have to deal with, and Sena gives you virtually zero warning that it is about to shut off. There are several ways of making this less of a problem. First way is to have a spare Sena unit, already paired and charged, that you can swap out while one charges in the tankbag. This is easy if you bought a dual set-up but are riding solo.
Second way is to buy one of the many "power-packs". They come in sizes up to 14000 mAHr and will fit in a jacket pocket. You don't have to be wired to the bike to charge the Sena.
Third way is a USB cable to a handy charging socket on the bike, as stated above. When I charge this way I simply plug in when I know I have a decently long stretch before the next stop.
The battery charging is something you have to deal with, and Sena gives you virtually zero warning that it is about to shut off. There are several ways of making this less of a problem. First way is to have a spare Sena unit, already paired and charged, that you can swap out while one charges in the tankbag. This is easy if you bought a dual set-up but are riding solo.
Second way is to buy one of the many "power-packs". They come in sizes up to 14000 mAHr and will fit in a jacket pocket. You don't have to be wired to the bike to charge the Sena.
Third way is a USB cable to a handy charging socket on the bike, as stated above. When I charge this way I simply plug in when I know I have a decently long stretch before the next stop.
Mogan
Well-known member
Gents,
Thank you again for the input. I have plenty of time to experiment with my upgrades, so I plan to test various configurations and report back. I decided to purchase a Sena 20s and Garmin 590 with touratech cradle as the base components for the upgrade. This will replace a Zuma 550 and autotcom pro. Hopefully I can cut down on the wiring clutter. I may or may not upgrade my escort radar.
I have to say the autocom works very well, but cabling wears out, too. The female audio socket on my current touratech cradle is loose and an annoying source of line static and noise. But the autocom Vox and functionality is flawless with many devices attached.
I'm very interested in having a better setup for music. Most of what I listen to is MP3 playlists and I don't like fumbling around on a small device (iPod or phone) while riding. Hopefully the new Garmin will handle that better than the 550. The old unit couldn't handle a large playlist. It bogged down the internal memory and impaired the functionality. If needed, I suppose I can offload the music functions to an iPad that goes in the tank bag top. Not sure.
Stay tuned...
Thank you again for the input. I have plenty of time to experiment with my upgrades, so I plan to test various configurations and report back. I decided to purchase a Sena 20s and Garmin 590 with touratech cradle as the base components for the upgrade. This will replace a Zuma 550 and autotcom pro. Hopefully I can cut down on the wiring clutter. I may or may not upgrade my escort radar.
I have to say the autocom works very well, but cabling wears out, too. The female audio socket on my current touratech cradle is loose and an annoying source of line static and noise. But the autocom Vox and functionality is flawless with many devices attached.
I'm very interested in having a better setup for music. Most of what I listen to is MP3 playlists and I don't like fumbling around on a small device (iPod or phone) while riding. Hopefully the new Garmin will handle that better than the 550. The old unit couldn't handle a large playlist. It bogged down the internal memory and impaired the functionality. If needed, I suppose I can offload the music functions to an iPad that goes in the tank bag top. Not sure.
Stay tuned...
I admit there's a lot of screen to be seen.
The tablet alone truly is a one stop shop: GPS (Waze + Co-Pilot), Bubbler Pro, traffic, weather, music, phone integration & control, plus internet connection.
The tablet mount stays on year-round, and gets used for trips longer than my 1 hour commute, otherwise it (or the phone) stays in the bag with Bluetooth connected.
The dedicated GPS(s) were to provide redundancy & alternative routes (aka: overkill) for my first rally last October.
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The 6000 mAHr pack in chest pocket + built in battery kept 28 hours of music & a couple of phone calls going throughout the Void rally.
I would cycle 2 or 3 of these on a charger in tank bag for a multi-day. I hard-wired an Orico MPU-4S 48W 4-Port Smart USB Charger with an SAE connector for lots of juice to power & charge stuff.
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
On long days, I charge my Sena during gas stops. It got me home in 23 hours one time, and my Sena never died.
Pterodactyl
Well-known member
Annie and I've been using the same Sena set for four years. When we ride back and forth to Alaska and camp, we go two or more days without recharging. We've gotten over 30 hours of riding done before we've lost power. Much depends on how much actual talking is done and we do not chat much. Our conversations are kept short and for a purpose.
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Mogan
Well-known member
I think the new Sena 20S is supposed to have even longer run time due to its new, more power efficient bluetooth protocol...
Uncle Hud
Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxyg
Mogan, I certainly will stay tuned. Despite all the naysaying, the solo iPhone has been just fine for this last weekend's 1,000 miles. Only drawback is my eyes don't always see the teeny-tiny print. (OK, electronic text images.) A tablet would solve that.Gents,
<snipped>
Stay tuned...
One tablet for all cockpit and audio functions ......... simplicity appeals to me, brother.
Mogan
Well-known member
They made this transition in aircraft 20 years ago. Time for motorcycles!Mogan, I certainly will stay tuned. Despite all the naysaying, the solo iPhone has been just fine for this last weekend's 1,000 miles. Only drawback is my eyes don't always see the teeny-tiny print. (OK, electronic text images.) A tablet would solve that.Gents,
<snipped>
Stay tuned...
One tablet for all cockpit and audio functions ......... simplicity appeals to me, brother.
Cockpits aren't exposed to the weather. Something like a Toughbook in tablet form that is hardened would be better suited (and appropriately more expensive).
How do you plan to address the lack of cell and wifi coverage?
SSD in computer thingies is the way to go to protect a spinning hdd from damage.
How do you plan to address the lack of cell and wifi coverage?
SSD in computer thingies is the way to go to protect a spinning hdd from damage.
Twigg
Just an old, bald man!
They have auto-pilots on aircraft too, freeing your hands and eyes for things like tablets
As has been said to the OP, the idea is sound. In practice it isn't quite that simple and while he is to be encouraged to experiment there are "holes" in the systems that cannot easily be filled right now. It will come.
It should work just fine for a relatively simple journey. That is not the same thing as a "short" journey. My BBG was from Tusla, OK to Flagstaff, AZ and back to Friona, TX. 1550 miles for which I wouldn't even have needed a GPS, the route was that simple. On the other hand, I would have struggled very badly on the last 12 hour rally I ran, so many bonuses in obscure locations that without my regular LD setup, navigating that route would have been very difficult.
ps ... Should you choose to go this way, you will need two tablets, not one. The standard arrangement of two GPS units and a smartphone has built-in triple redundancy. Relying on one device is a risk that can be anticipated and covered.
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Warpdrv
Well-known member
I think that all plays into how much Bluetooth you are using..... Bluetooth eats batteries - If its multiple devices paired to it, or whether its only a single unit or sharing music with your pillon type usage.... YMMV on battery life...
We got a full day of riding, turning the 20s off when not in use, lunch stops, short sight seeing.... it was roughly about 10-11 hours... with 6-700 miles ventured
Sharing a Single source android (Music Sharing the whole time) 2 x 20S on a long trip...
We are not 24 hour riders by any stretch, so it works great for us....
The advent of Bluetooth LE (low energy) helps but it's hard to tell how much without testing the components in the real world combo. Often a GPS module in a portable device (phone, tablet, etc.) eats batteries faster than anything else.
Twigg
Just an old, bald man!
As you know there are two distinct audiences here. The group that rides "day-rides", even a succession of them over several thousand miles, have little problem with Sena and battery life. They can usually go 8 to 10 hours even listening to music. Just charge them normally when stopped for the night.
The other group rides anything up to 30 hours, almost non-stop. My last long ride was 31 hours with no independent charging facilities and those riders need to be able to charge while riding. Once you have that situation taken care of, we are back to "no problems"
Uncle Hud
Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxyg
(1) My iPhone rests in a weatherproof (yeah, I bet) RAM mounting box. Of course, I had to drill a hole in the back to wiggle in a power cable. So far, I haven't experienced a hard-enough rain to threaten the phone. I suppose I'll park under a bridge, dry off the phone, and call whoever needs to know I'm waiting for the rain to stop. [is there a similar weatherproof case for tablets? I don't know, I'm waiting for Mogan to do all the work for me.
(2) The southeastern US is adequately covered by data-capable cell service, and -- I've been told by Verizon -- so is our entire US Interstate highway system. (Deep mountain valleys are a noted exception.)
(3) Most tablets come with suitable RAM/SSD options to handle lots of mapping and routing tasks.
(4) Being an old MF, I carry paper maps, too. They're free at the state welcome stations.
To be fair in this discussion, I am never riding an IBR -- ever* -- and do not need double-redundancy, go-to-the-limit, ride-through-monsoon-or-sandstorm capabilities that those riders need. I should be able to do Moonshine, EOM, a BunBurner Gold, and probably a ride to Pink's without all that extra stuff.
If that makes me a pussy, so be it. I'm riding my ride, and quite happy with it.
* y'all fookers are crazy
<edit after posting: I'm not angry or offended, by the way.>
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Twigg
Just an old, bald man!
Check Seidio.com for truly waterproof cases.
I bought one for my Samsung Galaxy S4. It is rated IP68 and a five minute submersion in water was no trouble. It comes with an adaptor to maintain the seal yet allow you to use a 3.5mm auxiliary cable, and the USB connection it right at the bottom. It would be no trouble to clip it shut if it rained.
I bought one for my Samsung Galaxy S4. It is rated IP68 and a five minute submersion in water was no trouble. It comes with an adaptor to maintain the seal yet allow you to use a 3.5mm auxiliary cable, and the USB connection it right at the bottom. It would be no trouble to clip it shut if it rained.
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