when to switch to synthetic

[Scab]

I betcha he especially likes it with a copy of Boobs and Beavers in hand...

:grin:

Does that make me a Petroleum Manipulator? Not to be mistaken with Petroleum Engineers, the makers of my happy-juice.

 

[jestal]

gone

 

[Shadow King]

I made finished blends for Chevron refining in a prior life ....

Hey I work for Sunoco. Can you believe how much money Refiners are making these days!!! I mean if the public only knew how bad they're getting screwed on gasoline prices they would just shit!!! :fie:

Uh ... I mean, margins are down. Crude supply is tight. We're lucky gasoline is as cheap as it is.

Sorry to interrupt this thread, please go on. :argue:

 

[BrunDog]

Hard to believe this statement coming from someone who "blended oils....."
There are several different purposes for additives in oil, not just antiwear. There are viscosity improvers, anti-acids, oxidation inhibitors, detergents and dispersants, etc. Much more than just anti-wear going on in the additive packages.

Years ago, the viscosity improvers in oils caused all sorts of problems due to them breaking down at high temps. That is because the VI packages in conventional oils were of relatively poor quality (compared to today) and were not of synthetic content. This is back in the early 80's by the way. Synthetics did indeed have an advantage back then as they had synthetic VI packages (by definition) and synthetics do not require quite as much VI additives. That was yesteryear....possibly when you were "blending oils..?" Oils today that meet the API SM performance specifications need synthetic viscosity improvers no matter whether they are conventional base oils or synthetics. No more advantage to synthetics.....

The ZDP added to oil is both an anti-wear agent and an anti-oxidant. Both conventional and synthetics use ZDP in similar concentrations. IF the oil is run above 305 F the conventional oils will use of the ZDP a little quicker than the synthetics due to the need for extra oxidation protection. About the only time that there is an advantage to synthetics as previously stated and the only time an "addtive" has an advantage in a synthetic.

With the advent of the ILSAC starburst "for gasoline engines" symbol and requirements the additive levels of ZDP were limited for both conventional and synthetics. Neither has an advantage in terms of the quality or quantity of additives these days as long as they subscribe to the ILSAC "for gasoline engines" labeling. That is why you can look at the can of Mobil extended service synthetics and NOT see the ILSAC symbol...they have more ZDP in them to last longer to meet the requirements of a longer service interval. TheZDP concentration in THOSE synthetics is about the same as the ZDP concentration in conventional Delvac/Rotella/Delo oils blended for diesels. No advantage in terms of ZDP concentration in synthetic or conventional as long as you use oils rated with the starburst symbol. No advantage for non-starburst synthetics either compared to non-starburst conventional oils like the Delo/Delvac/Rotella.

Conventional manual transmissions in cars have syncromizer rings so the viscosity and lubricity of the lubricant used WILL affect shifting. In a motorcycle transmission that uses shift dogs and no syncros it is hard to understand how any oil change affect the shifting of the transmission, especially trying to credit it to synthetics.

Don't misunderstand me, I like synthetic lubricants. They are excellent products of very high quality. Fact is, though, they are just not needed in most cases and offer little to no advantage unless you are in a situation where the oil is run very hot/over 305 F. For track use where the oil temp is really elevated due to continous high RPM the synthetics might make sense. For normal riding and daily use, where the oil stays well below 305 F, the conventional oils will work fine and offer just as good a level of protection against wear. If you like sythetics or feel better using them that is fine....just don't try to ascribe miracles to the synthetic oil. If the engine is spotless and shows no wear with synthetics then chances are pretty good that it would have done the same with conventional oil.

I love you, man! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

-BD

 

[twowheelnut]

Gotta luvs the J-man! :good:

 

[Toecutter]

Don't misunderstand me, I like synthetic lubricants. They are excellent products of very high quality. Fact is, though, they are just not needed in most cases and offer little to no advantage unless you are in a situation where the oil is run very hot/over 305 F. For track use where the oil temp is really elevated due to continous high RPM the synthetics might make sense. For normal riding and daily use, where the oil stays well below 305 F, the conventional oils will work fine and offer just as good a level of protection against wear. If you like sythetics or feel better using them that is fine....just don't try to ascribe miracles to the synthetic oil. If the engine is spotless and shows no wear with synthetics then chances are pretty good that it would have done the same with conventional oil.

And the Lord hath spoken, All hail the Great!

 

[panthercity]

jestal, regarding your assertion that no current engines need breakin before goign to synth. What has been your experience with BMW's R series?

In re general use. Uh, huh! I like it for my air-cooled bikes and turbo engines strictly because of the high temp characteristics. Everything else gets dead dinos. Money saved on oil goes into farkles or new bikes.

 

[TheRepairMan]

The best thing about using Synthetic oil in your bike is that if you put 500,000 miles on it when you tear it down for a rebuild you won't get your hands dirty, but then again you may not have to tear it down so soon!
First oil change, 90 miles. I switched to fully synthetic Mobil MX4T at 500 miles, my third change on the FZ1. It will protect it years longer IMO. Modern engine tolerances are so fine there really isn't a long break in like there was years ago.

Roger

Hey! That's almost exactly what I said. I'm just a Technician ...not a Doctor!

I love oil! :clapping:

Synthetic oil make my bike faster! :yahoo:

I also love pie!

RB

 

[jestal]

Don't misunderstand me, I like synthetic lubricants. They are excellent products of very high quality. Fact is, though, they are just not needed in most cases and offer little to no advantage unless you are in a situation where the oil is run very hot/over 305 F. For track use where the oil temp is really elevated due to continous high RPM the synthetics might make sense. For normal riding and daily use, where the oil stays well below 305 F, the conventional oils will work fine and offer just as good a level of protection against wear. If you like sythetics or feel better using them that is fine....just don't try to ascribe miracles to the synthetic oil. If the engine is spotless and shows no wear with synthetics then chances are pretty good that it would have done the same with conventional oil.

And the Lord hath spoken, All hail the Great!

NO NO NO........I was the guy tied to the front of the humungous's buggy........

 

[jestal]

gone

 

[Toecutter]

NO NO NO........I was the guy tied to the front of the humungous's buggy........

Humble lords are the best kind...

 

[panthercity]

Well, we're pretty close on most of this. I use Rotella in most everything, Rotella synth in the Eclipse GSX turbo autocrosser and the R1150RSA. Butt, I'm a belt and suspenders kinda guy.

As for the Boxer motors, there is nothing butt anecdotal evidence for prolonged break in, i.e. a significant percentage of the bikes that have come through the local BMW shop, and a significant number of bikes on the “BIG” list, IBMWR, that were still using oil at 20k miles and over, all switched to synth before 10k miles.

Both of my R11xx engines, and the handful that I service regularly, all stayed with dead dinos until the 12k service then switched over to synth (Mobil 1 or Rotella), None of them use more than a couple of oz of oil between 5~6k mile services.

 

[Bearly Flying]

I didn't realize Jestal was related to Radman, there is a Strong Family resemblence. Jestal your not Radman's illegitimate Son are you?

 

[Constant Mesh]

Who in that movie was referred to as "the ayatollah of rock-n-rolla"? I think the guy who yelled this to the crowd got his finger tops sliced off when he tried to catch the kid's metal boomerang.

Humongous appears to be wearing the appropriate motorcycle riding kit. Is he related to Dr. Lecter?

 

[Scab]

Who in that movie was referred to as "the ayatollah of rock-n-rolla"? I think the guy who yelled this to the crowd got his finger tops sliced off when he tried to catch the kid's metal boomerang.
Humongous appears to be wearing the appropriate motorcycle riding kit. Is he related to Dr. Lecter?

wrong movie. The "Ayatollah of rock-n-rolla" was in the Clint Eastwood movie, "Heartbreak Ridge". Mario Van Peoples, I do believe.

 

[Toecutter]

wrong movie. The "Ayatollah of rock-n-rolla" was in the Clint Eastwood movie, "Heartbreak Ridge". Mario Van Peoples, I do believe.

I think it was done in the Road Warrior first, 1981
Here he would be referred to as "The ayatollah of all that's oila".

 

[FJRottie]

The "Ayatollah of rock-n-rolla" was in the Clint Eastwood movie, "Heartbreak Ridge". Mario Van Peoples, I do believe.

You are correct Sir.

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Back to oil, why do some vehicle manufacturers recommend synthetic in diesel engines?

I know they want specific diesel oils, but they go either way also.

Is it because the high ratio of compressed air reaches 1300-1600 F when it ignites?

I think it has an aftercooler to cool the intake air after compression.

I would think a lot of heat is lost by the time the process gets to the output end of the crankshaft.

Diesels may be more prone to sludge, and syn oil can help prevent it?

Is it really necessary?

 

[Toecutter]

The "Ayatollah of rock-n-rolla" was in the Clint Eastwood movie, "Heartbreak Ridge". Mario Van Peoples, I do believe.

You are correct Sir.

As is Constant Mesh.

I didn't realize Jestal was related to Radman, there is a Strong Family resemblence. Jestal your not Radman's illegitimate Son are you?

I think Jestal needs to shrink the photo and use it for an avatar. Somebody wanna help him out with that? Skooter?

 

[TriggerT]

I just changed my bike over to synthetic today. I have 1200 miles on it, and have done one previous oil change with standard oil. As stated above, it just makes me feel better knowing I am running synthetic.

As for FJRottie's post, I run AmsOil Synthetic in my F350 with the 7.3 liter diesel. I have sent samples of the used oil my diesel any more often than every 20K miles is a waste. I change the filter and top it off every 6-8K. Good thing too, since the 7.3 takes 16 quarts of oil.

 

[Toecutter]

...it just makes me feel better knowing I am running synthetic.

Is it more PC (green) to run synthetic? I could get behind that. Hey, synthetic fuel...there's an idea!