Dynojet Research Fine = $ 1 million

[madmike2]

For years people like the AMA have been warning motorcyclists that this was coming. Why should we be amazed? Next will be the bi-annual inspections to make sure everything is OEM. I'm no "Green Party" tree-hugger type but it would be nice to have clean air for my future grandchildren.

Like TWN, I don't need the miniscule improvement and have never run a PCIII on either of my FJRs.

Like Toecutter, I now run OEM exhaust (having removed my Holeshots and preferring the quiet).

Denver has passed an aftermarket pipe ordinance and one would assume, if it is found legal after the court cases are settled, it may be coming to a city or state near you.

As to the argument about the small amount motorcycles contribute, every vehicle adds "some" pollutants and the pressure to clean up the emissions has been pressed for years. So what!?!?

Did you ever notice that all aftermarket slip-ons and headers are marked "not street legal" or "race track use only"? That places any legal issues squarely on the shoulders of the vehicle owner and not on the manufacturer.

(Toecutter @ Jan 6 2008, 08:56 PM) I wonder if all those loud-ass Harleys running around adversely affect the emissions systems as certified by the OEM?

I bet they do.

Yep...me too!

No difference between them, the "boompa-de-boomp" stereos and loud mufflers on Euro-Asian streetracers or loud SUVs and pickups. Its more about the "look at me" attitude than the small horsepower gain.

Last thought: Every snowflake in an avalanche cries out, "It's not my fault!" [SIZE=8pt]Checkoslovakian Proverb[/SIZE]

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

I'm concerned more about the long-term impact of more and more regulations on motorcycles in general.

Every requirement adds cost and limits choice and product availability to segments, such as entry-level motorcyclists having to pay more to enter our sport.

As for the Power commander, I think is not generally a necessity for our motorcycle of choice, but a godsend for some people stuck with motorcycles that have horrible power bands, and it can smooth and optimize them. Or for those who ARE into racing.

 

[Ari Rankum]

With mid-sixties on tap for January 7, I'd like to know where I can send my check of gratitude to Dynojet Research. People say "Global Warming" like it's a bad thing.

Too, I'm going to kiss the very first SUV driver I come across this morning. I figure that won't be hard. One should come along, in my lane, soon enough and, being on the cell phone, they prolly won't even notice.

 

[burnergold2B]

It started with the elimination of the 2 strokes. Even though I love my 2 stroke dirt bikes I can sort of understand the argument against them as far as pollution/emissions are concerned.

Then it quietly moved to bolt on pipes. Harley Davidson closed their Screamin Eagle line of pipes, and I hear most all bolt on pipes will eventually be illegal someday soon.

But Power Commanders? I just don't get the rationale of going after a transportation system, like our two wheeled modes, where the fuel economy is comparatively tremendous and the impact on the roadways is minute. Let's see here; A 700 pound vehicle that gets 50 mpg is as much an environmental threat as an 8500 lb SUV that gets 15mpg?

Why would a state like California go after motorcycle transportation in such a way when they should be encouraging the 2 wheel culture? Where does California get there data from to substantiate such laws? I understand my argument of good v. bad fuel economy should not give motorcyclists carte blanche for skirting emissions laws, but let's start getting real with our politicians here. My motorcycle goes 3-4 times the distance burning the same amount of fuel as most SUVs/trucks out there. What am I missing? Does the use of bolt on pipes and PCs triple or quadruple my bikes' emissions?

 

[bramfrank]

With mid-sixties on tap for January 7, I'd like to know where I can send my check of gratitude to Dynojet Research. People say "Global Warming" like it's a bad thing.
Too, I'm going to kiss the very first SUV driver I come across this morning. I figure that won't be hard. One should come along, in my lane, soon enough and, being on the cell phone, they prolly won't even notice.

What global warming?

Oh, you mean that natural variation in the planet's average temperature? That's called 'nature'.

There is no major man-made global warming. Mars has global warming too. Don't try to blame mankind for that either. There is ZERO science that incontrovertably proves that mankind is significantly implicated in any way. If there were, then scientists would all be in agreement.

Global warming is all about money.

 

[Checkswrecks]

I know one of the EPA Administrative Law Judges and if you've followed the last several year's articles about pollution regulations affecting motorcycles, there've been very consistent themes.

1. The regulators are aware of the small engine vehicles with low counts, such as small airplanes and motorcycles.

2. We're not immune from EPA regs, nor is anybody else. (Seen any 2-cycle lawnmowers at Sears lately?)

. A. It may become harder for manufacturers to meet pollution requirements with bigger engines.

. B. Manufacturers are pretty sharp at adapting.

3. Anything required to meet initial certification of EPA compliance will be increasingly required to maintain that compliance. Unfortunately, that puts a dead-center bullseye on exhaust systems and Power Commanders. California just happened to catch the press on this one. Here in Maryland as in many other locations, our cars have to occasionally be smog-checked to make sure all the pollution equipment works.

4. The current exception for motorcycles are the home-made vehicle rules and those currently are in flux on how many will be allowed. There are current arguments for one in a person's life, but that reg is pretty easy to get around and a huge debate exists, so my guess is this will evolve and change over time.

Bob

 

[Bounce]

I wonder if the CA version will actually be worth putting on?

my understanding is the PC/Ca is designed so that the EFI can't be modded in certain RPM ranges. I would guess those are the ones tested.

 

[Toecutter]

I wonder if the CA version will actually be worth putting on?

my understanding is the PC/Ca is designed so that the EFI can't be modded in certain RPM ranges. I would guess those are the ones tested.

Probably the same range where mine stumbles around due to being too lean, and why most EFI mods are installed..

 

[keithaba]

Well, there are laws regarding dicking around with emission systems, not only as regulated by CARB, but by the EPA, as well. Why are you getting upset about a someone breaking the law getting fined?

The company that made the equipment should not get fined though. The individual who actually installed the unit should be fined, since the unit itself does not automatically change the emissions (0 map).

It's almost like fining yamaha with speeding fines, because I went to fast on the FJR.

Same thing as how all you hippies can sell water pipes in a head shop as long as they don't call it a bong! It's not the shops problem what you do with your water pipe!

 

[v65]

The company that made the equipment should not get fined though.

That's what I was thinking. Did they not advertise them for off road use only or something?

 

[krashdragon]

I know one of the EPA Administrative Law Judges and if you've followed the last several year's articles about pollution regulations affecting motorcycles, there've been very consistent themes. 1. The regulators are aware of the small engine vehicles with low counts, such as small airplanes and motorcycles.

2. We're not immune from EPA regs, nor is anybody else. (Seen any 2-cycle lawnmowers at Sears lately?)

. A. It may become harder for manufacturers to meet pollution requirements with bigger engines.

. B. Manufacturers are pretty sharp at adapting.

3. Anything required to meet initial certification of EPA compliance will be increasingly required to maintain that compliance. Unfortunately, that puts a dead-center bullseye on exhaust systems and Power Commanders. California just happened to catch the press on this one. Here in Maryland as in many other locations, our cars have to occasionally be smog-checked to make sure all the pollution equipment works.

4. The current exception for motorcycles are the home-made vehicle rules and those currently are in flux on how many will be allowed. There are current arguments for one in a person's life, but that reg is pretty easy to get around and a huge debate exists, so my guess is this will evolve and change over time.

Bob

One of my friends in Cali had a 75+'s something pickup, lightly modified engine, carbed, air intake whatever, in the early 90's I believe....

He took it to get tested, it passed the emissions with flying colors, was about half the legal limit... extremely low.

BUT... he could not get it titled "BECAUSE IT WASN'T STOCK" Period.

Instead of tearing down a perfectly good running truck, he sold it to someone out of state.

He now drive a 1960's something pickup.... pre testing age. It also runs very well.

Oh, and he also wears a beanie... just to protest the helmet laws,,...yeah, he rides and build Harleys... his last bike is an absolutley beautify stroker panhead.

Mary

 

[mdisher]

I wonder how long they have to pay?

So a $300 PC now costs $4-500? and what does the *Cali version do specifically that the 49 state version doesn't? Does it just come stock with a different map that you can then replace or does it never allow you to pollute?

*I don't get this*

I also think there are bigger fish in the sea than manufacturers like this.

 

[madmike2]

This is beginning to echo the discussion at sport-touring.net that is now over 4 pages long.

There is a vast difference between illegal and unlawful, not moral and immoral, obtrusive and insulting. The courts have interpreted and ruled that the force of the law may be applied by agencies to fulfill and enforce their purpose. You can argue all you want but it is a fact that more changes are coming, in amount and level of application (more restrictive) as the latest Euro emission standards attest.

Take it as a warning that this has happened and when it comes to motorcycles being inspected bi-annually (as cars are now in CA and some other states, some titled "Safety Inspections"), modified EPA and CARB required devices will be subject to fines. A clever owner will keep the OEM stuff handy to reinstall for the inspection process.

I seriously doubt the local law enforcement officer would be able or required to inspect your vehicle at a roadside stop, but might be able to give you a 24 hr. notice to be inspected (for example...if you had aftermarket mufflers).

Fight all you want...argue until you are "blue-in-the-face"...The annointed and appointed are in charge and it IS going to happen, whether we like it or not.

 

[Bike Effects]

This is a bummer. I was looking forward to buying an affordable PC for my 05. I guess I'll just keep my eyes out for a used one when the prices go up.

And you are waiting for what?

PCIII's in stock and shipping. $274.50 after the forum discount.

Power Commander at Bike Effects

See discount information below.

 

[FJRSTAR]

"Another reason not to do business in the Republik of Kalimexifornia..."

"Looks like a bunch of Governator BS to me! "

Tell me what Arnold and the Mexicans have to do with this?

Stick to the original subject of this thread. Violations were comitted according to the laws in place and have been in place.

 

[FJRSTAR]

"Denver has passed an aftermarket pipe ordinance and one would assume, if it is found legal after the court cases are settled, it may be coming to a city or state near you."

It is currently being enforced in Fredericksburg, Tx.

Bikers are being fined for loud pipes (think loud-ass HDs).

 

[Groo]

Ok, so what's to stop someone from having a PCIII, and aftermarket pipes living in California, and when it's time for inspection, he pulls the PCIII (not like that takes a rocket scientist) and puts on his OEM mufflers (again, a quick job), gets it inspected, and then does the reverse switcheroo? Or even better... change the PCIII map back to stock...

Answer... not a thing. Therefore, the sum total effect of all this will be a few more days every other year swapping bike parts.

 

[exskibum]

The courts have interpreted and ruled that the force of the law may be applied by agencies to fulfill and enforce their purpose. You can argue all you want but it is a fact that more changes are coming, in amount and level of application (more restrictive) as the latest Euro emission standards attest.
Take it as a warning that this has happened and when it comes to motorcycles being inspected bi-annually (as cars are now in CA and some other states, some titled "Safety Inspections"), modified EPA and CARB required devices will be subject to fines. A clever owner will keep the OEM stuff handy to reinstall for the inspection process.

I seriously doubt the local law enforcement officer would be able or required to inspect your vehicle at a roadside stop, but might be able to give you a 24 hr. notice to be inspected (for example...if you had aftermarket mufflers).

Fight all you want...argue until you are "blue-in-the-face"...The annointed and appointed are in charge and it IS going to happen, whether we like it or not.

Gunny and Woof. Keeping the OEM stuff would be smart -- to put back on in case of a sale, desired sound reduction, inspection, and/or stricter laws or enforcement.

I would not be surprised to see local jurisdictions crack down on loud pipes, a la Denver, or even based upon existing laws. I've read a lot of complaints about thundering Harley herds and loud dirt bikes in the Auburn paper over the last few years, and KNOW that Markleeville residents have grown weary of loud thundering Harley herds. That kind of enforcement will undoubtedly sweep up any and all aftermarket pipe users.

Having a 49 states model legally licensed in CA (brought in with more than 7,500 miles) would not exempt it from this PCIII altered emissions system prohibition. One of the requirements is that the bike have the EPA sticker evidencing compliance in the state in which it was originally sold new. But all the DMV does is check that the stickers are on the bike, along with engine and frame numbers, even if you are running an aftermarket pipe and PCIII at the time you bring it to them for the required registration inspection. DMV personnel are not trained to discriminate on such things, but it's easy to envision all transfer registration events becoming another check point along the lines of what Mike suggested would be plausible.

 

[Last Chance]

They are out of control.

Yes, they are.... Coming to a state near you soon!

LC

 

[markjenn]

Some keep parroting the idea that motorcycle emissions are miniscule and because of the fuel economy advantage, shouldn't be subject to any controls whatsoever. While any one individual vehicle doesn't make a statistically significant contribution to emissions, it is simply not true that as a group piped and PC'ed motorcycles don't make a huge and significant contribution. Pull the cats and run an FJR on a PC "rich map" and the bike is putting out about 100-1000 times the emissions of a current regulated car. And with many cars now int he 30-45 mpg range (and getting higher), we really can't point to a huge fuel economy advantage either.

I lived in the 1960's and endured my eyes watering due to the stench of pollution in the S. Calif basin. I don't think most people realize the turnaround that emissions controls, cats, and modern FI systems had on the quality of life in areas like SC. I would never want to go back to this.

I don't know if the fine is appropriate or if things are too far-reaching now, but I do think motorcycles and motorcylists need to do their part, just like everybody else. We've been flying under the radar for a long time now.

- Mark