'09 AE won't run after starting

[McRuss]

Well, that is not exactly true. It starts easily and dies immediately. It will do this a couple times until, with the throttle held 'open' a bit, it catches and continues to run. Then this morning I noticed that it was not running on all four for a bit. Temp was 52deg F. Has been doing this off and on, mostly when chilly, for a month or so. I talked to dealer mechanic, he has no clue, wants the bike left over night to experience it first hand (good idea but dealer is 60 miles away and logistics are not on my side at the moment.)

So before anyone jumps me, I did a search and found lots of posts about miss fires but nothing about the 'start and die' syndrome I'm experiencing. BTW, I just turned 41,000 miles. I have changed plugs, checked TBS, replaced rubber caps with new plastic caps (won't dry out and crack like OEM) and still had the 'start and die' issue. The missing is new as of today.

While I'm at it, I also have a little 'lope' at idle, about 50 rpm or so, only barely noticeable. Last time I had the bike at the dealer, the mechanic asked me if I'd removed the TBs to clean them.....Never heard of such a thing, put 80,000 on my '04 and never had any idle issues. Pulling the TBs is not something I want to do just to clean them so I removed the air cleaner and sprayed SeaFoam into them as best I could. Little if any difference. I posted this issue a while back and never did get a satisfactory answer about cleaning the TBs so don't bother replying unless you have a solution for the lope.

 

[mcatrophy]

A few thoughts, no particular order:

1. Has your idle dropped for any reason? When it's warmed up, make sure the idle is 950 - 1050. (Non AE/AS owners will say 1000 - 1200, but that's a little high for your AE clutch dis-engaging nicely.)

2. Maybe something wrong with the cold idle mechanism, not raising the cold idle sufficiently.

3. An air leak into the throttle body somewhere, could be a cracked or missing vacuum port rubber or something like that.

4. Fouled or otherwise bad spark plug.

5. Bad fuel.

I'm sure there are many other possible causes ...

 

[McRuss]

A few thoughts, no particular order:
1. Has your idle dropped for any reason? When it's warmed up, make sure the idle is 950 - 1050. (Non AE/AS owners will say 1000 - 1200, but that's a little high for your AE clutch dis-engaging nicely.)

2. Maybe something wrong with the cold idle mechanism, not raising the cold idle sufficiently.

3. An air leak into the throttle body somewhere, could be a cracked or missing vacuum port rubber or something like that.

4. Fouled or otherwise bad spark plug.

5. Bad fuel.

I'm sure there are many other possible causes ...

Cold idle is about 1600 once it catches and continues to run, hasn't changed since new, warm idle is right at 1000, no problems there.

I'm betting on the 'cold idle' wax motor thing myself.

I've replaced the rubber vacuum port caps with plastic, they seal well and don't crack like the rubber.

But, I removed the air injector hoses and plugged all the associated stuff some time ago. I'm going to replace them to see if that will make a diff

New spark plugs, no change.

Many tanks of fuel since it started doing this (the start and die syndrome), not sure why it was running on two or three yesterday, could be fuel I guess.

I'm guessing it is one of those other 'many possible causes.'

 

[ionbeam]

Cold idle is about 1600 once it catches and continues to run, hasn't changed since new, warm idle is right at 1000, no problems there.I'm betting on the 'cold idle' wax motor thing myself.

I've replaced the rubber vacuum port caps with plastic, they seal well and don't crack like the rubber.

But, I removed the air injector hoses and plugged all the associated stuff some time ago. I'm going to replace them to see if that will make a diff

New spark plugs, no change.

Many tanks of fuel since it started doing this (the start and die syndrome), not sure why it was running on two or three yesterday, could be fuel I guess.

I'm guessing it is one of those other 'many possible causes.'

With a cold idle of 1600 and a warm idle of 1000 I think the wax motor thingie is vindicated. The reading you get are just what the wax motor is supposed to do.

The air injection only pulls air from the air box and injects it into the exhaust port after the exhaust valves. If it were stuck closed you would never know it, if it were stuck open you would have backfiring in the exhaust on deceleration, both hot and cold.

When you pulled the plugs, how did they look? All alike? Black, white or blistered?

For all the things you are trying it may not be a bad idea to double check you vacuum port caps by spraying with something like WD40 with the engine running and look for a change in engine speed. While you are at it, either check the intake band clamps to be sure they are tight or use the WD40 and check for leaks.

Did any of the 'Many tanks of fuel' have a cleaner additive poured in?

Do you have any codes stored in diAG memory?

Engine loping is easy to get by adding a cam that is too big. This may be a hint to check your CCT. When did you last have a valve check done? If your engine has any change in power delivery you should check to be sure that you haven't had a timing chain tooth skip taking the engine out of mechanical timing.

If you have had any engine covers off check very, very carefully that you don't have a pinched sensor wire, especially around the clutch and cam chain covers. Heck, it's worth checking these wires carefully for damage even if you haven't had the covers off.

Then there is the famous 03HiYoSilver response to all start and run errors, check this connector.