Best (Fastest?) Sports Tourer

[Twigg]

I'm new here, so please forgive my many indiscretions. They are not deliberate and I'll learn.

I first registered for the Forum when it became the "place to be" to follow the progress of the Iron Butt Rally in 2011, and again in 2013.

I currently ride an elderly Yamaha Venture Royale. It is set up to allow me to be able to stay in the (Russell) seat as long as I can prop my eyelids open and feel safe. I'm happy to say that, over the last two years, it has morphed into a motorcycle that fits me like a Held glove that was designed to fit me better than it would fit anyone else. I can state, quite categorically, that it is the Best Touring Motorcycle in the World, right now, for me

We will skip over the sports bit, because it is to sports what fine sand is to a roller bearing.

So I read, with some amusement, the many pages of the thread about that silly magazine article about the "fastest sports tourer". Silly not because it didn't contain a grain of truth in there somewhere, but because fastest is about the dumbest criteria we could choose to measure a motorcycle, unless we have the enviable surname of Rossi, or something similar.

I am reading these threads, by the way, because recently someone held out the possibility that I might be able to buy a 2005 FJR at a reasonable price, so it pays me to investigate carefully before committing money I don't have. In the past I have owned both an FJ1200A and a Honda VFR750, so I am not averse to buying something with a decent pedigree, but it has to give me something my current bike cannot.

Well, I hear y'all laugh ... given what you ride now, that wouldn't be too hard! That is certainly true, but none of you has asked me what I want yet

What I want is the same, or better comfort than I currently have, and to be able to ride farther, faster and with less stress than is involved in keeping a 1986 behemoth rubber side down for anything up to twenty four hours at a time.

With that requirement, top speed is simply not an issue. All of the bikes mentioned would do that, indeed my Venture will easily top 100 mph, and it has cruise control, but only five gears. It has a bullet-proof engine, super-reliable shaft drive, but also a frame (steel, double-cradle), that twists in the middle when you hit the center-line of the road at anything over about 70 mph. That makes the ride interesting, but can occasionally put creases in the seat where Russell didn't intend there to be any.

So where do I look for the perfect motorcycle? Some suggest the finisher list of the Iron Butt Rally. Not bad, but it's a data-point not a Bible. To understand what that list represents means one needs to know how it was arrived at. One rider who could have won in 2011t crashed his BMW on the run-in. He did something similar last time out. One rider jumped up to second, on his FJR, by doing the freakin' impossible on the final leg ... was that the bike, or the rider, or did the bike allow the rider to get to Key West and still make it to the barn on time .. and would it have made a difference had a few top-placed guys not gone north?

So that list shows that FJRs are indeed capable, but there was an ST1100 in the top ten, and a Gold Wing that had an unfortunate incident that also would have bumped an FJR. There was even an ancient Yamaha that would have shocked the entire community had the poor guy not lost all his pictures ... God I felt for him!

Nonetheless, FJRs are performing flawlessly in Rallies and Rides all across the country, and the bottom line is that they DID take the top five places, so you can't discount that.

The thing I have always believed is simply that the Best Sports Tourer ... is the one you have. They can all manage "go to jail" speeds, and they can all do it all day long. The restriction isn't the bike, but the rider, their skill, determination and the risks and challenges that they are able to minimize.

So why should I change my motorcycle? I mean, it has a BBG and SS1000. It has several times managed 1000 miles in a day, under rally conditions, and it has podiumed a few times even when matched against most of the other bikes on that "fastest" list. It was cheap, and it is paid for

The problem is that I can't extract any more performance from it. I'm not talking about speed, but about the mental and physical effort it takes to "keep it straight, and keep it 80". By comparison, virtually every bike on the aforementioned list will go farther, faster and with considerably less effort by the rider than will my 800 lb monster. It's the rider input that matters most here, because the less stressful the ride, the longer I can manage it for, and the further the wheels will turn.

Of all the choices out there, the three that appear to be "best-suited" are the Honda ST1300, the BMW R1200RT and the Yamaha FJR1300. The Kawasaki would sneak in too, but it does appear to have fewer fans than the others, a smaller knowledge base although it is indeed quite stonkin' value for money. I haven't completely ruled it out, but no one has offered me a very cheap one

For me the BMW has two fatal flaws. It is very expensive, and the reliability is questionable. When you are 2000 miles from home and you only have money for the gas, it kinda matters that you trust your bike to get you there. I'm sure the BMW would, but I am more sure that either the Honda or Yamaha would. When I am LD Riding I don't want ANY distractions at all. Nothing preying on my mind, nothing that detracts from the simple act of riding the bike. For now, that and the cost rules out the Beemer.

Torque matters. Torque means fewer gear changes. Five gears helps. Fuel injection (which I have never had on a bike) matters. It means reliable performance even when well-loaded, when the bonus location is Pikes Peak. Cruise Control is something I never saw the need for on a bike, until I had it and would now not want to go back. An adjustable windshield and decent weather protection matter. Good fuel economy and a generous supply matters. Neither of the two remaining machines has a tank big enough, so they are even on that score.

I don't need "character". What I want is competence, and for that competence to be as unobtrusive as possible. The ST probably, according to reports, has the edge there, but I am a motorcyclist and sometimes I just want to have fun. That might tip it towards the FJR.

Ergonomics tend to favour the ST too, but there is little it offers that cannot be matched by the Yamaha, with maybe a set of bar-risers, decent seat and maybe lowered footpegs. Either way, both would be better by far than what I have now. I can see not good reason why I couldn't set about making either bike the most comfortable place in the world for me, and that's the goal.

Longevity and reliability ... Much of a muchness. Honda has legendary reliability, and Yamaha FJRs are going around the clock with no apparent major faults. This helps because higher mileage bikes are ridiculously cheap, yet most have so much life left in them that you really don't need to worry too much about the mileage.

So we are back where we started, if any of you had the fortitude to remain with me this long. I have been offered a 2005 FJR, and if I can sell the two bikes I currently have, it will be sitting in my garage soon. They tell me it leans a little more "sporty" than its direct competitors, but I can fix the riding position (I am pretty average in size and shape). I don't care about the top speed, or the 0 to 60 or 100 times. I do care about the acceleration between 50 and 90 mph. Be nice if it was fairly rapid without having to make more than one downshift.

Everything else I can tweak.

Am I on the right track here? Have I missed anything obvious? Will I actually like this bike?

Yeah ... too long, didn't read ... sorry

 

[Burnspot]

I think the FJR is the ideal machine for long distance running, though I'm slightly biased. The FJR is practically bullet proof, a repeatedly proven rally bike, good on fuel, requires only 87 octane, easy to work on, and has gobs of torque ("In thrust we trust" comes to mind when talking about the FJR's power). It'll deliver miles all day long with comfort (usually with a custom seat and perhaps some highway pegs) and has no trouble knocking out long distance trips at the drop of a hat. Personally, I don't think you could go wrong...just make sure recalls are up to date and that it hasn't been ragged out. Gen I's (2005 and earlier) put out a bit less electrical power, so if you're a gizmo freak, you'll have to more closely monitor that aspect of things (Gen I owners will probably speak up).

 

[Twigg]

I currently have all the usual LD farkles, except heated riding gear (I have heated bar grips) I run three HID lights. The headlight is an HID Projector, 35W, and the two spotlights are 35W and 50W. My current stator has a lower output than the FJR (1st Gen), and it keeps the voltmeter above 13V with all things running.

The FJR may have a higher base requirement to run the bike, but the alternator is bigger and I am planning on replacing the HIDs with LED (for the spots).

I think it will have enough even with a heated jacket, especially if all the bike bulbs (except headlight) are swapped for LED equivalents ... that is some serious power-saving right there.

 

[SouthernCruizer]

I am probably in the minority here, but I truly believe that the bike picks the rider, not vice versa. In order for that to happen, you have to test ride the bike. Ride the FJR, ride the Honda, etc, and let the bike pick you. As long as the bikes you test ride meet your criteria for price,comfort, performance and reliability, the only thing left is the match up between you and it.

Good luck!

 

[RossKean]

How tall are you? I'm 6'3" and find the FJR a pretty good fit. A little more distance between seat and pegs would be nice. I rode a Yamaha RSV for a couple of years and while the initial comfort (Lazyboy) of the Venture was better, there is no comparison when you are doing a long day in the saddle. Power, handling and reliability - just another data point for you.

 

[Twigg]

How tall are you? I'm 6'3" and find the FJR a pretty good fit. A little more distance between seat and pegs would be nice. I rode a Yamaha RSV for a couple of years and while the initial comfort (Lazyboy) of the Venture was better, there is no comparison when you are doing a long day in the saddle. Power, handling and reliability - just another data point for you.

I liked the previous comment .... "The wand picks the Wizard" ..

I am 6 foot tall, 180 lb with a 33" inseam. I wouldn't have an RSV simply because I don't like cruisers. The Venture Royale is nothing like that, it is much more "Gold Wing". It cam to me with a Travelcade Road Sofa, which is good for about 400 miles and that, I guess, would satisfy most folk. It currently has a Russell which has allowed me to completely forget about the seat, it is no longer an issue. My knees and hips are another story because the riding position is a little more cramped than I like it.

At my height and reach I'm probably within the adjustment range of most bikes, but I am older than I used to be, and these days prefer a more "upright" riding position.

 

[FJReady]

Twigg, You could test ride an FJR and have your answer in less time than it took me to read your initial post. But seriously, not having ridden a Venture I can still say that the advances in motorcycle frame design and fuel injection alone even in a Gen1 FJR would make a huge improvement in your motorcycle user experience.

I'm about your size and find the FJR fits fine and have ridden many many consecutive all day rides. Granted, they weren't in typical IBA ranges, more like 400-600 per day. But still, the FJR ergos suited me fine.

Regular gas, easy maintenance and rock solid reliability. Not to mention performance that can still thrill you. What more does one need?

Get a good seat though. Looks like you know that already.

 

[Cal24Master]

Twigg, here is what you are missing: The FJR is EASY to ride fast, hard and for a very, very long time. I rode endurance rallies, including my first IBR on a 1991 Suzuki 1100 Katana. I proved that I could undoubtedly ride big miles on that bike. Just like you can ride big miles on your current bike. But you will never know how much harder you are working to put on those miles until you ride a FJR.

 

[Twigg]

Twigg, here is what you are missing: The FJR is EASY to ride fast, hard and for a very, very long time. I rode endurance rallies, including my first IBR on a 1991 Suzuki 1100 Katana. I proved that I could undoubtedly ride big miles on that bike. Just like you can ride big miles on your current bike. But you will never know how much harder you are working to put on those miles until you ride a FJR.

Thank you.

I'm kinda sold.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

First let me post a picture. I like pictures and they are worth a thousand words.



I know, I've posted it before but it will help me make my point.

ANY modern Sport Tourer will make covering lots of miles in a hurry less of a chore than your old bike. ALL of them will require modification and they all require the exact same modifications. The Windshield. The Seat. Bar Risers. A Fuel Cell. I am sure you know better than I do what other mods an IBR competitor will need but the bikes you are considering all have the same issues and they need to be fixed the same way.

The FJR is in my opinion just as long term reliable as the ST1300. I maintain both and find the FJR easier with regards to oil/oil filter/air filter/final drive oil maintenance. The ST is easier for spark plugs and at wash/wax time. There is not enough difference to make a difference. The ST1300 takes a unique oddball size tire both front and rear. The FJR takes standard sizes and you can always find something to get you out of a bind. No one stocks tires for my ST. No one.

The FJR is more comfortable/upright in stock form than the ST but you will need bar risers regardless. There is more legroom between the seat on the ST but you will be changing that with the custom seat. The ST has more wind protection. It may not be "better" but there is more of it.

Since you require cruise control, you are aware that only the Gen3 FJR (2013 +) comes with CC? Otherwise you will need to go aftermarket. CC was NEVER offered on the ST1300. The Gen1 FJR was/is a great bike and yes, the IBR results show that it is still an awesome machine but be aware that Yamaha has steadily refined this platform. The Gen3 bikes are soooo nice.

I have nothing negative to say about my ST1300 as it has served me faithfully and does whatever I ask of it. But for the simple joy of riding a motorcycle I will always like Dad's Gen2 FJR more. I like the '14 ES version of the FJR best of all. IF it were MY $$$, I would go Gen3 FJR.

Good luck.

 

[Twigg]

Thank you Redfish ... Unfortunately I did, apparently, reach my quota of "likes" for the day so you will have to wait until tomorrow. Odd rule, I'm sure there are reasons

If I had the budget that would permit a 3rd Gen FJR, my list would be slightly different. I'd add the Triumph Trophy. It's probably not as good as either the FJR or the ST1300, certainly in terms of fit and finish, but I am English and Triumph is part of my DNA.

But I am talking about an FJR priced closer to $3000 than $4000, and from a source I trust implicitly, so you understand why the ST1300 and the later FJRs are beyond me. I have to raise the money by selling a 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale, and a 1977 Yamaha XS750 ... both of which were rebuilt from scrap, by me, and both of which have earned IBA plate backers.

I do this on a budget and I'm okay with that. LD Riding and Rallying is my chosen sport, and the budget is beginning to hold me back, hence the desire to make changes.

Buying a contemporary motorcycle has been on my bucket list for some time now, but I'm still at the lower end of the food chain

 

[Redfish Hunter]

I'd rather see a picture of that '86 Venture than get a "like" on my post. In 1986 I was riding an '84 GoldWing Interstate (when I could steal it from Dad) and found it a bit large and heavy. The Yamaha Venture looked like just what the doctor ordered. More "Sport Touring" than the 'Wing and with that V4 engine... I will always be bitter about the great bikes that were beyond my financial means...

 

[Twigg]

Your wish ... This photo was taken for an article I wrote in the Iron Butt Magazine:

 

[Sharif]

You can't go wrong with an FJR. They eat miles, routine maintenance is easy, and they have a surplus of power. You won't look back.

 

[Niehart]

I put a lot of miles on a 1983 Yamaha Venture Royale. Have to say it only let me down once.

Then to a Yamaha FJ1100 which was I assumed was going to my most favorite motorcycle ever.

But the FJR just is so much better of a all around platform and is so much easier to service. Now I'm riding my favorite bike.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Twig, anyone that has farkleitis as bad as you seem to have needs an FJR. Some here will argue that the first gen bikes that are in the $3k to $4k range are the best FJRs anyway. I gotta say that as much as I love my Gen2, it's all semantics.

Everyone of them has similar DNA. They are all reliable, comfortable, powerful, easy to work on and super fun. It would be hard to go wrong; especially with this place around.

 

[Twigg]

I put a lot of miles on a 1983 Yamaha Venture Royale. Have to say it only let me down once.
Then to a Yamaha FJ1100 which was I assumed was going to my most favorite motorcycle ever.

But the FJR just is so much better of a all around platform and is so much easier to service. Now I'm riding my favorite bike.

Since arriving in the US I've gone backwards. My last bikes were a Honda VFR750, and before that a Yamaha FJ1200A and earlier a Yamaha XJ600. I also had a 1958 Matchless G11CS ... very rare because it was only offered for 8 months before becoming a 650. It was also the first production bike ever to cover a recorded 100 miles in one hour. It was ridden by a motorcycling journalist called Vic Willoughby. It was done at the British motoring research facility and they usually tested buses and trucks. The ride had to be managed during the lunch hour when the track wasn't being used for testing.

After the ride, a factory technician rode it back to the factory. When it arrived, the only fault they found was a broken tail-light wire. They never fixed that issue and that wire used to break on a regular basis

My first bike in the US was the XS750. I paid $200 for it and it was a total shed. After some work, and waiting for UPS, it did a SaddleSore 1000 in March 2010. It still has only 20 000 original miles on it. The Venture came along quite by accident ... Another total heap that I paid too much for. Again, it spent some time in my shop but has since acquitted itself very well in LD rides and rallies.

 

[Twigg]

Twig, anyone that has farkleitis as bad as you seem to have needs an FJR. Some here will argue that the first gen bikes that are in the $3k to $4k range are the best FJRs anyway. I gotta say that as much as I love my Gen2, it's all semantics.

There are a few misconceptions about "farkling". Mine is broken down into three areas ... Lighting, Seating, Auxiliary Gas. Everything else is just to add a few creature comforts, or upgrade the bike in some way. For example ... That bike does not have the standard braking system. The brakes were de-linked, and I changed the entire front brakes for those from an R6, then added custom brake lines.

The engine and frame are untouched, except I swapped out the rear suspension linkage for the later and better set-up from a 1988. Plastic lets it down. The rear is just fine but the front plastic is dirty and cracked. It can all be replaced. I checked the valves at 56k. They had never been touched. All were in-spec or very close. I adjusted four of them simply to open them to max spec as they wear tight. I changed the gaskets for the later versions.

Other than that, the bike is more or less standard (If you ignore the HID Projector I fitted in place of the OEM halogen headlight). Oh yeah ... the mirrors are from a Honda Fireblade. The X-creen works!

 

[JamesW]

My long way in a hurry bikes from 1987 to 2009 were first generation Kawi Concours,(ZG1000) very under rated bike. You may find one of the last years manufactured one for a good price. My last one was an 04 and would still be here except for an 08 FJR, and now a 2013 FJR. Put a rifle windshield on one and you are as weatherproof as one can be on a bike. Criteria for my rides, shaft drive, ample gas tank, good weather protection, CENTER STAND, moderate weight and reasonable availability of dealerships across the country.