Cam Chain Tensioner Blade Replacement

[RavFJR]

With the damage I found while fixing the oil pump cover, I am going to replace the cam chain tensioner blade. My question is do I need to remove the cam, or will loosening the cam chain allow me to push the tensioner blade up and out?

 

[RavFJR]

Going to answer my own question... Yes indeed, everything needs to come out to replace either chain guide or blade tensioner (both cams and the chain). I'm not completely sure, but I believe that the damage I see is superficial...at least I hope. With the valve cover off, I flushed the chain with oil and did get the broken threads to ooze out. At this point I'm going to button it up, and when I get the chance, take it to a repair shop. Going in for surgery next month, so no time to work this at the moment. Damn...

 

[RavFJR]

Got past my surgery and want to get the bike running... Local Yamaha shop blew me off, saying they're too busy to deal with my problem, so it's up to me to do the repair.

Got the engine torn down... intake cam off and the new blade tensioner slide right in, no issue. The old blade tensioner was damaged and needed replacing... However, I can't get the cam chain back on the intake cam sprocket. I've tried a bunch of different methods to get this accomplished, but no dice. After fighting it for nearly 4 hour, thought I'd ask those here that have tackled this sort of thing for some pointers. Anyone got any ideas or tricks that work to get the chain to go back on? Thanks in advance for any help provided.

 

[Auburn]

First, I assume you have the factory manual. 

My description below is from memory of doing mine a couple of years ago with several valve checks and cam chain tensioner replacements during tech meets.

Did you remove the cam chain tensioner (on the right side of the engine just ins side the frame rail?  If not, you need to remove that and reset it by using a small screwdriver to wind it back up.  Then there is a small metal tab that holds it while it is reinstalled.  Once it is back in place, then you can pull the tab and let it retention everything.  

When you put the cam chain on, you need to get all your timing marks lined up correctly.  they can be a bitch to do and verify with the engine in the bike.  Especially the cams lining up with the top of the head.  I had to use a very bright light and even a small mirror to check.  Then you need to make sure there is NO slack between the crank and the exhaust cam.  I had to take the timing trigger off the end of the crank to verify (use an impact to loosen)  It is keyed going back, so you can't get it back on wrong.  Once you verify that the crank and exhaust cam are right then I put a tie wrap on both to hold them in place.  I also marked the cam chain with a silver sharpie and the tooth each were lined up on so I could see it easier.  NOTE: the exhaust cam is going to rotate as there is valve spring pressure on it when timed correctly.  You will need to do something to keep it from moving)

Next you have to get the chain over the intake cam,  (I am assuming that you removed the cam hold downs (bearing covers) so you can angle the cam in and put the chain on (if that makes sense).  You have to line up the intake cam with it's marks even with the head and ensure you have no slack between the cams.  Once you get that, then you can put the cam chain tensioner back in and release it so it will tension the chain.  (It is a bitch to get back in and tighten the bolts.  I took the bolts and cut a slot in the head so I can use a cheap standard screw driver that is about 12" long to get them started, then use the smallest box end wrench (8 MM IIRC) to tighten.

Once you have all that and the timing trigger put back on the end of the crank (Just snug it for now because I won't be surprised it the mark are off by one tooth either way.  It took me 3 times to get it right the last time I had to adjust the valves. Now rotate the engine slowly to make sure you don't have any vale to piston interference.  (Note: one tooth off will not cause any).  Rotate until all the marks line back up (I forget how many turns it takes, but it it several).  Make sure the crank is TDC and verify on cylinder #1.  Next verify that the cams timing marks are lined up with the head.  Again it took me three tries to get this with the engine in the bike.  The bike will run if off one tooth, but will not rev and has no power.

Hopefully you checked the valve clearances before you took everything apart so you don't have to visit this again for 26K miles.  

 

[RavFJR]

First, I assume you have the factory manual. 

My description below is from memory of doing mine a couple of years ago with several valve checks and cam chain tensioner replacements during tech meets.

Did you remove the cam chain tensioner (on the right side of the engine just ins side the frame rail?  If not, you need to remove that and reset it by using a small screwdriver to wind it back up.  Then there is a small metal tab that holds it while it is reinstalled.  Once it is back in place, then you can pull the tab and let it retention everything.  

When you put the cam chain on, you need to get all your timing marks lined up correctly.  they can be a bitch to do and verify with the engine in the bike.  Especially the cams lining up with the top of the head.  I had to use a very bright light and even a small mirror to check.  Then you need to make sure there is NO slack between the crank and the exhaust cam.  I had to take the timing trigger off the end of the crank to verify (use an impact to loosen)  It is keyed going back, so you can't get it back on wrong.  Once you verify that the crank and exhaust cam are right then I put a tie wrap on both to hold them in place.  I also marked the cam chain with a silver sharpie and the tooth each were lined up on so I could see it easier.  NOTE: the exhaust cam is going to rotate as there is valve spring pressure on it when timed correctly.  You will need to do something to keep it from moving)

Next you have to get the chain over the intake cam,  (I am assuming that you removed the cam hold downs (bearing covers) so you can angle the cam in and put the chain on (if that makes sense).  You have to line up the intake cam with it's marks even with the head and ensure you have no slack between the cams.  Once you get that, then you can put the cam chain tensioner back in and release it so it will tension the chain.  (It is a bitch to get back in and tighten the bolts.  I took the bolts and cut a slot in the head so I can use a cheap standard screw driver that is about 12" long to get them started, then use the smallest box end wrench (8 MM IIRC) to tighten.

Once you have all that and the timing trigger put back on the end of the crank (Just snug it for now because I won't be surprised it the mark are off by one tooth either way.  It took me 3 times to get it right the last time I had to adjust the valves. Now rotate the engine slowly to make sure you don't have any vale to piston interference.  (Note: one tooth off will not cause any).  Rotate until all the marks line back up (I forget how many turns it takes, but it it several).  Make sure the crank is TDC and verify on cylinder #1.  Next verify that the cams timing marks are lined up with the head.  Again it took me three tries to get this with the engine in the bike.  The bike will run if off one tooth, but will not rev and has no power.

Hopefully you checked the valve clearances before you took everything apart so you don't have to visit this again for 26K miles.  

Thanks for the reply... After what I went through yesterday, and now your post, seems I've bitten off more than I can chew. I'm fairly mechanically inclined, but this task seems a bit over my abilities. I really don't want to damage the engine getting something wrong. I had to go down attempting this repair because a repair shop (now 1400 miles away from me.) did my valve check and CCT replacement and botched putting the oil cover on correctly. They incorrectly installed where the two long bolts should go, one being at the top of the cover. This bolt resides right over where the cam chain runs. Putting the shorter, incorrect bolt in this location caused the threads to fail and they got sucked up into the tensioner blade, damaging it. I tried for weeks to get local shops to do this repair, but kept getting turned away. My situation might require a call to Yamaha for assistance finding a repair shop.

I will give you answers to some of the questions you've posed... I have a manual CCT installed and it is fully retracted - no factor impeding the chain. I took pictures of the cams before I removed the intake cam for reference. One of the problems I have (and I think you echoed this) is when I begin tightening down the cam, per the process in both the factory and aftermarket repair manuals I have, the intake timing mark moves out of its desired location (by about a tooth). I have also tried to put the chain on with the bearing covers removed, but his still didn't offer much help. Initially, I had the chain tie wrapped on the exhaust cam, but this only further impeded the chain clearance issue. And yes you are right, I found slack at the crank sprocket. I removed the sensor, but do not want to risk moving the crank by taking anything else off. I might try one more stab at getting everything back together, but I'm very apprehensive, as I don't want to damage the engine. Again, thanks for your insight and experience regarding the quandary I've gotten myself into... 

 

[Auburn]

Thanks for the reply... After what I went through yesterday, and now your post, seems I've bitten off more than I can chew. I'm fairly mechanically inclined, but this task seems a bit over my abilities. I really don't want to damage the engine getting something wrong. I had to go down attempting this repair because a repair shop (now 1400 miles away from me.) did my valve check and CCT replacement and botched putting the oil cover on correctly. They incorrectly installed where the two long bolts should go, one being at the top of the cover. This bolt resides right over where the cam chain runs. Putting the shorter, incorrect bolt in this location caused the threads to fail and they got sucked up into the tensioner blade, damaging it. I tried for weeks to get local shops to do this repair, but kept getting turned away. My situation might require a call to Yamaha for assistance finding a repair shop.

I will give you answers to some of the questions you've posed... I have a manual CCT installed and it is fully retracted - no factor impeding the chain. I took pictures of the cams before I removed the intake cam for reference. One of the problems I have (and I think you echoed this) is when I begin tightening down the cam, per the process in both the factory and aftermarket repair manuals I have, the intake timing mark moves out of its desired location (by about a tooth). I have also tried to put the chain on with the bearing covers removed, but his still didn't offer much help. Initially, I had the chain tie wrapped on the exhaust cam, but this only further impeded the chain clearance issue. And yes you are right, I found slack at the crank sprocket. I removed the sensor, but do not want to risk moving the crank by taking anything else off. I might try one more stab at getting everything back together, but I'm very apprehensive, as I don't want to damage the engine. Again, thanks for your insight and experience regarding the quandary I've gotten myself into... 

Take your time and try to get the chain in the right place.  You can move the crank a few degrees each direction to check the slack and timing marks.  Without fully rotating to verify you got them in the right place. 

With the tensioner being a manual one, you might try getting the gap between the cams right first and tie wrap both of them, then use the slack to get the crank right last.  You might try to use something (vice grips or another person and channel locks) between the cam lobes (since they are not wearing surfaces and you won't damage them) to prevent the cam from turning as you tighten down the bearing caps.  Then you are down to getting the slack out of the chain between the exhaust cam and crank.  IIRC I believe I had to actually move the crank a few degree one way or the other to engage the cam chain so the slack was removed when the crank was moved back to the timing marks.

At this point it is all mechanical.  Just have to figure out how to get them lined up with the tools you have on hand.  The good thing is you really can't hurt it unless you get the timing way off.  And you can verify that by rotating before you put the covers back on to start.  It is definitely a test of patience.  

 

[RavFJR]

Take your time and try to get the chain in the right place.  You can move the crank a few degrees each direction to check the slack and timing marks.  Without fully rotating to verify you got them in the right place. 

With the tensioner being a manual one, you might try getting the gap between the cams right first and tie wrap both of them, then use the slack to get the crank right last.  You might try to use something (vice grips or another person and channel locks) between the cam lobes (since they are not wearing surfaces and you won't damage them) to prevent the cam from turning as you tighten down the bearing caps.  Then you are down to getting the slack out of the chain between the exhaust cam and crank.  IIRC I believe I had to actually move the crank a few degree one way or the other to engage the cam chain so the slack was removed when the crank was moved back to the timing marks.

At this point it is all mechanical.  Just have to figure out how to get them lined up with the tools you have on hand.  The good thing is you really can't hurt it unless you get the timing way off.  And you can verify that by rotating before you put the covers back on to start.  It is definitely a test of patience.  

Thanks for all of the advice... Novel idea working from the top down. I never removed the exhaust cam, so are you suggesting I install the intake cam, ensuring correct alignment... Then remove the chain from the crank, so I have enough slack to properly fit the chain on both cams, tie wrapping the chain on both of them? If this is all so, I will need to find a way to remove the crank sensor plate and not have the crank move while loosing the nut... I assume if this process is followed I would have enough slack to put the chain back on the crank? Please let me know your thoughts... Again, I really appreciate your experience and knowledge dealing this situation I got myself into...

 

[Auburn]

that's correct. You will have enough slack.  I think I had to move the left chain slider up a little by removing the dowel that it sits over to make it easier while engaging the chain on the crank, then slide it back.  I didn't have to take the slider out, just move it to create more slack in the chain to get on the crank.

Get the cams right then you are just dealing with the slack from the exhaust cam to the crank.  It easier for you since you have a manual cam chain adjuster, then for those with the auto adjuster because you can set the chain, put tension on, remove the tie wraps and rotate to check.  Where the ones with auto adjusters, have to remove the adjuster each time to reset it before making another chain adjustment.

The hardest part for me was verifying the cam marks line up with the top of the cylinder head.  IIRC, I took a sharpie and darkened the marks so I could see them better.  The rest was figuring out how to hold everything in place while putting tension back on the chain.  Like I said it took three tries to get it correct.  I'm sure you can do it.  Just takes patience.

 

[RossKean]

Like I said it took three tries to get it correct.

Took me MORE than three tries to get the cam timing correct when I did my most recent valve check.  Never had an issue with it before!

Why the manual cam chain tensioner?  

 

[RavFJR]

that's correct. You will have enough slack.  I think I had to move the left chain slider up a little by removing the dowel that it sits over to make it easier while engaging the chain on the crank, then slide it back.  I didn't have to take the slider out, just move it to create more slack in the chain to get on the crank.

Get the cams right then you are just dealing with the slack from the exhaust cam to the crank.  It easier for you since you have a manual cam chain adjuster, then for those with the auto adjuster because you can set the chain, put tension on, remove the tie wraps and rotate to check.  Where the ones with auto adjusters, have to remove the adjuster each time to reset it before making another chain adjustment.

The hardest part for me was verifying the cam marks line up with the top of the cylinder head.  IIRC, I took a sharpie and darkened the marks so I could see them better.  The rest was figuring out how to hold everything in place while putting tension back on the chain.  Like I said it took three tries to get it correct.  I'm sure you can do it.  Just takes patience.

Thanks for the response... I will try and get to the bike sometime this coming weekend to put your plan into work. Do you have any recommendation to getting the sensor plate off without moving the crank? My thought was to take the bike off the center stand and put it in gear. I imagine that this sensor plate is delicate, so jamming a screw driver in one of the holes might damage it. Your thoughts...

 

[RavFJR]

Took me MORE than three tries to get the cam timing correct when I did my most recent valve check.  Never had an issue with it before!

Why the manual cam chain tensioner?  

Yes, since this is usually a 26K repeatable maintenance action (valves), one would think an easier process could have been incorporated -

I selected a manual chain tensioner because the first one (blue dot) failed at about 27K miles. I installed a green dot CCT and from the start it still offered chain noise. This being the case, I took it to a local motorcycle racing bike shop ( as the local Yamaha shop went out of business) to do the valve inspection and replace the CCT. They found the (green dot) CCT defective, as it wouldn't adjust out enough to make a proper adjustment on the chain. I had another (green dot) CCT for the shop to use, but they convinced me to go with a manual one. They showed me 3 bikes in the shop with failed auto CCTs, one being another FJR. I know that there is a lot of strong opinion about the use of a manual one, but it's given me no issue, and has worked great since the bike shop did the work.

 

[Auburn]

Thanks for the response... I will try and get to the bike sometime this coming weekend to put your plan into work. Do you have any recommendation to getting the sensor plate off without moving the crank? My thought was to take the bike off the center stand and put it in gear. I imagine that this sensor plate is delicate, so jamming a screw driver in one of the holes might damage it. Your thoughts...

I just used and impact driver.  to break it loose.  IIRC the torque is about 45 Ft-lbs.  Not too excessive.  I have both an air impact and a Milwaukee 1/2" battery one.  You just need it to break it loose.  Then I just put it on finger tight while doing all the checks.  When you rotate the crank, clockwise it naturally tightens the bolt.  Once you verify everything, then you can torque the bolt to spec.

 

[RavFJR]

I just used and impact driver.  to break it loose.  IIRC the torque is about 45 Ft-lbs.  Not too excessive.  I have both an air impact and a Milwaukee 1/2" battery one.  You just need it to break it loose.  Then I just put it on finger tight while doing all the checks.  When you rotate the crank, clockwise it naturally tightens the bolt.  Once you verify everything, then you can torque the bolt to spec.

I don't own one, so time to go shopping... Thanks for the feedback.  When breaking the bolt loose, did you do as I stated in my last post (bike off center stand and in gear)? My apologies for the 20 questions...

 

[Auburn]

I don't own one, so time to go shopping... Thanks for the feedback.  When breaking the bolt loose, did you do as I stated in my last post (bike off center stand and in gear)? My apologies for the 20 questions...

No, I had my bike on the bike lift on the center stand.  You have a PM with my contact info.

 

[RavFJR]

No, I had my bike on the bike lift on the center stand.  You have a PM with my contact info.

Roger that... I sent you a response PM.

 

[RavFJR]

I will post updates when I am able to work on the bike in a few days. Thanks to all that have offered me advice to dig me out of my proverbial hole, especially Auburn.

 

[dcarver]

Here's a pretty good write up with pics from my last valve adjust.. might be of help to you. 

https://candybuttorg.ipage.com/cba/node/720

~d

 

[Auburn]

Here's a pretty good write up with pics from my last valve adjust.. might be of help to you. 

https://candybuttorg.ipage.com/cba/node/720

~d

Great pics DC!  

 

[RavFJR]

Here's a pretty good write up with pics from my last valve adjust.. might be of help to you. 

https://candybuttorg.ipage.com/cba/node/720

~d

Thanks for the Pics... Some are helpful.