Ever get scared teaching someone to ride?

[dc1300]

dc1300:I am both an MSF RiderCoach Trainer and Rider's Edge Instructor. I am not anti-Harley. I own 2 Buells in addition to my FJR. However, I agree with what you have already heard from the other MSF RiderCoaches in this thread. If your friend can afford to buy or knows someone from whom she can borrow a smaller bike, like a Rebel, Eliminator, GZ250, Nighthawk, Blast, etc her learning will be much easier on both of you and her success will likely come sooner. These small bikes are surprisingly affordable when purchased used and can frequently be sold for what you paid for them. Your friend sounds very determined so it seems unlikely she would be discouraged if you finesse her into learning on a smaller bike. That Heritage will wait patiently for her.

Larry:

Please remember that the MSF IS nothing more than 12 motorcycle manufacturers who would prefer to keep their customers alive so that they can buy motorcycles in the future.

I'm not sure why you are wary of Rider's Edge version of the BRC but if you consider taking a closer look, you will find that the range activities are identical to what you currently do and the additional classroom activities are actually superior. The marketing embedded into the curriculum is actually quite minimal. It consists of an initial tour of the dealership, a get acquainted activity involving H-D's history and when you first talk about motorcycle types you are asked to get the students classifying various Buell and H-D models as "touring", "cruiser", "standard", etc. I was a bit concerned when I was first asked to join a program. Once I saw what they did in the classroom and why I jumped in with both feet. You might be surprised.

Dave

Dave,

You are all quite right about the Heritage, but Dave I sure you've met those people that can't be "talked down", they've set their sites on a particular motorcycle and that's the one they want to ride. I've just been stating that in that case bring her to a parking lot, get down to basics and let her make the right decision.

And you never know, she may pull it off, I've seen it happen.

I went to the update in Memphis and it's a great opportunity to network with other coaches. That said, I can see Larry's point of view about dealer sponsored schools, there were some coaches there complaining about the heavy handed marketing that Larry is citing. I’m sorry to say it’s out there, Rider’s Edge doesn’t condone it but, dealers are independent businessmen and some are shall we say……ambitious. I think they are in the minority and certainly not where I teach.

Larry, You can teach my boy anytime, Were you by any chance an RSS instructor?

 

[CHRIS_D]

Re: Finding a guy to pilot it while she rides pillion: Heh, actually, I think she had this mind when she bought it. I'll never understand that.

3 questions

1. is she cute? 2. is she easy? 3. got any photos?

1. Yes, 2. Yes, and 3. Yes. Any other questions?

You know now the more I think about it, I may just be available to help out in this great cause to teach her to ride.

 

[dhalen32]

Larrylease remember that the MSF IS nothing more than a not-for-profit organization, sponsored by 12, not one single, motorcycle manufacturers who would prefer to keep their customers alive so that they can buy motorcycles in the future.

Fixed that for you.

I never said I was wary of Rider's Edge version of the BRC. The curriculum is fine. The bias against any brand other than their own, you know, the "embedded marketing" that you refer to, is what I believe detracts from the educational aspect and I don't find it to be minimal.

I appreciate your suggestion that I take a closer look. Having been dogged by a local dealer (at the same time as being questioned about my choice of bike :blink: ), I've observed classes and have talked to numerous instructors like yourself who teach both. In addition, I've read the statistics on their pass rates & accident rates. I feel I've done more than my due diligence and I'm quite comfortable with my opinion regarding the program. With all due respect, neither you nor dc1300 have changed that opinion.

At the risk of further hijacking EODSarge's thread, not to mention violating the forum's No Politics rule, I'm not going to discuss my views of Rider's Edge any further here.

Larry:

That's cool. You are entitled to your opinion. It sounds like that dealer is a jerk. The other Rider's Edge dealer in Nebraska is just like that. The one I work for is marvelous. The two owners (who are brothers) grew up riding Japanese dirtbikes, still do with their children and really don't care what their customers ride. If we had the land available on site I would probably have an MSF DirtBike School here too.

They are 1000% behind rider training without trying to influence what their customers buy and whether they pass or fail. That just became even easier as they have recently purchased the big metric dealership in town.

Dave

 

[Tenchi]

There's a stack of 250's out there that are great learning bikes. The one that stands out to me is the un-pretty Honda Nighthawk. I've seen ones that look like they've gone through WW3, 4 and 5 and still keep running after many, many miles. Low seat on those too, even for a 4'11 rider, they're light, they're cheap, and you can fit crash bars/frame sliders to them, etc. I would still love one as a "Get around town" bike that is so incredibly robust, cheap and incredibly forgiving on the rider regardless of what punishment you give it. Just don't expect it to go fast. The other one is probably the Yamaha Virago 250, another great learning bike that's also forgiving, again slow but fantastic bike nonetheless.

Keep the heritage, winterize it and get her on the Virago or Nighthawk.

Note: I think the Virago is called the V-Star 250 here, and the other name for the Nighthawk is the CB250. You can get them secondhand pretty cheap.

 

[Silver Penguin]

There's a stack of 250's out there that are great learning bikes. The one that stands out to me is the un-pretty Honda Nighthawk. Low seat on those too, even for a 4'11 rider

Perhaps you mean a COMPARATIVELY low seat. There are some of out there who cannot flat foot even the humble Nighthawk. When I demo exercise 2, Use of the Friction Zone, that's a bike I have to avoid because I cannot rock it backwards with my feet. It's a sweet and gentle bike for a beginner to ride (apart from it's reluctance to find neutral) but not the lowest seat height out there. With experience, the seat height ceases to become an issue but if the purpose of riding the 250 is to gain experience, this may not be the best bike for a shorter rider.

And you know what? After riding bikes like that all afternoon, for demonstrating exercises, then putting the bikes to bed, the FJR sure does feel like a BIG, powerful beast. :yahoo:

Jil

 

[cougar8000]

Jil,

I actually do that demo on the TW. I can barely reach the ground and have to lean the bike to flat foot. One of the messages is that you do not have to be flat footed. Have confidence and you will be fine. My co-instructor or range aid are daring me in front of the students to take bikes that students say what ever we are asking them is not doable or what else. And I am happy to abide.

 

[Neil San Diego]

Note: I think the Virago is called the V-Star 250 here, and the other name for the Nighthawk is the CB250. You can get them secondhand pretty cheap.

2007 was the last year for the Virago 250. They renamed it the VStar 250 in 2008. Same bike, different name.

 

[Silver Penguin]

Jil,
I actually do that demo on the TW. I can barely reach the ground and have to lean the bike to flat foot. One of the messages is that you do not have to be flat footed. Have confidence and you will be fine. My co-instructor or range aid are daring me in front of the students to take bikes that students say what ever we are asking them is not doable or what else. And I am happy to abide.

Good point. I will usually choose the bike that best demonstrates the exercise, but to make the point about flat footing, bike size etc., I will have my FJR parked somewhere in sight, but out of range of student-bike attacks.

Jill

 

[krashdragon]

Ok, having ridden and talked to a lot of ladies...

1. some wimmins (myself included) have a hard time looking far enough ahead. They simply have NOT learned to look far down the road, thinking they have to see what's right in front of them. That's one thing your friend is doing without knowing it. She thinks she is looking ahead, but she is looking down. One suggestion is to tell her to "Keep her chin up". Hard to look down that way.

2. Also sounds like she is afraid to go fast, ok, afraid of the bike, period. Low speed practice is necessary, but also just plain practice starting and stopping in a straight line to get used to the acceleration and the brakes. How's her cage driving? If she's watching the road as it passes under the front of the car, and afraid to accelerate say from a yield on the freeway, she needs to get off the bike immediately.

I have a friend that learned to ride in the Netherlands, she's a big gal, was riding a friend's Yammi 750 Special there. Her hubby bought her a nice lowered Sporty, very easy to ride, she's got a 36" inseam, mine is like 29" ( ,but out in the country roads in Ohio, she was afraid to accelerate. Dangerous, as she would not get going fast enough to flow with even very light traffic. Found out that she never went over 45 mph in the Netherlands. Drives like a maniac in Ohio, tho, so she will get there.

3. Your friend's also intiminated by the sheer size of the bike, and has somehow got it in her head that she "needs" a Harley. That's the hard part to get over. Guys generally don't have the look ahead or size problem, because.... well, they're guys! <BG>

4. ride her and the bike to a big parking lot, have her just practice starting and stopping, then do big loops. Possibly covering the speedo will help to, just one less thing to look at. You can also suggest she get the bike lowered, different bars and a lower seat. Once she can get both feet on the ground she will feel more comfortable. If she doesn't drive stick, she has a lot to get used to. And keep telling her, "Head up!" or "Chin up". If she' never even ridden on the back of a bike, then the "moving" part is also intiminating. I used to teach driver's ed, just getting the car moving was a triumph for some of the kids. They would say something like "It's totally different than sitting in the passenger seat!"

Yeah, it's the wrong bike to start on. I have a friend that's about her size, she can ride the hell out of her Harley, but she was riding a Kaw 500 or something, used to do IB rides on it, plain wore it out. Her hubby lowered it, and shorter bars,. I rode it a bit, had to stick my elbows out to the side just to keep them out of my stomach! The Harley's still too big for her, but she can handle because she already knows how to ride.

Good luck!

You're both gonna need it! <G>

Mary