Father with family in SUV chased, beaten by speed-demon bikers
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HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
We have beat this to death. Now everyone is waiting for the next chapter to see who is going to be charged, sued, fired, punished etc.
Now, think of this:There have been about 7 of us that have been very active and vocal about our opinions on this thing. Most of us agree, but there are some varying opinions, especially bobg3723. His hangup seems to be what led up to the video and could the entire thing have been avoided if lien had responded differently.
When this goes to trial, the jury pool will be just as diverse as us. Even here on the internet we have irritated each other. Imagine having this argument in a room smaller than most living rooms with a group of people you have almost nothing in common with. At least we have some of the same ideas because we ride the same bike and there's some comradery.
We only have limited info, mostly provided by the media. That video is a huge factor too. I have seen juries sent to deliberate with less than what we know.
Trials are not about presenting the facts so they can be sorted. They are about presenting my side of the story while preventing you from preventing yours. During a criminal trial, and decent defense attorney is going to try to suppress that video.
Expect this to drag on for a while...
Now, think of this:There have been about 7 of us that have been very active and vocal about our opinions on this thing. Most of us agree, but there are some varying opinions, especially bobg3723. His hangup seems to be what led up to the video and could the entire thing have been avoided if lien had responded differently.
When this goes to trial, the jury pool will be just as diverse as us. Even here on the internet we have irritated each other. Imagine having this argument in a room smaller than most living rooms with a group of people you have almost nothing in common with. At least we have some of the same ideas because we ride the same bike and there's some comradery.
We only have limited info, mostly provided by the media. That video is a huge factor too. I have seen juries sent to deliberate with less than what we know.
Trials are not about presenting the facts so they can be sorted. They are about presenting my side of the story while preventing you from preventing yours. During a criminal trial, and decent defense attorney is going to try to suppress that video.
Expect this to drag on for a while...
Bugnatr
Well-known member
BobbyBlue
Arrhythmia and Blues
I've also scoured the interwebs for FJR video from these rousers of the rabbel and can't find a single one...plenty of yammies to be sure, but not a single FJR....i wouldnt want to be in any room close to any lawyer in any way whatsoever...and i used to dive with sharks as a hobby....and Zilla...is that Pooch a blonde...me thinks we could dye her without peta intrusion...jes sayin'.....no FJRs' were hurt during this discourse....
I too wonder about a few things in the video, and also things possibly unseen:
There could have been some interchange beforehand, and that might put some of the culpability on the SUV driver.
It does appear that the SUV did not make a very good effort to slow quickly. But it was slowing, which sort of indicates the driver saw what was happening but either could not, or did not want to hit the brakes any harder to prevent the collision.
In the video I cannot see if anyone made any threatening actions or gestures toward the SUV before he accelerated relatively wildly, which was what caused the most grievous harm. Did the SUV driver panic at that point, or were they already intent on causing him harm? That still needs to be determined, I think.
Clearly, once he ran over the legs of one of the bike riders this infuriated the riders and there was clearly intent to harm after that point (by the hooligans), but maybe all of that could have been avoided if he didn't accelerate away?
Hard to say.
As for a fair trial, you make a great point. We here are all motorcyclists and come with our own biases in favor of motorcyclists and yet we are (mostly) condemning the hooligan bike riders. I'm sure that the lawyers will try and exclude anyone who is an avid motorcyclist. How do you imagine Joe and Betty average American non-motorcyclist will feel about all of this?
I'm not sure how they would be able to exclude the video evidence since it was lawfully obtained from the idiot hooligans who willfully posted it in the public domain, albeit only for a short time. Once implied, that permission cannot be undone.
There could have been some interchange beforehand, and that might put some of the culpability on the SUV driver.
It does appear that the SUV did not make a very good effort to slow quickly. But it was slowing, which sort of indicates the driver saw what was happening but either could not, or did not want to hit the brakes any harder to prevent the collision.
In the video I cannot see if anyone made any threatening actions or gestures toward the SUV before he accelerated relatively wildly, which was what caused the most grievous harm. Did the SUV driver panic at that point, or were they already intent on causing him harm? That still needs to be determined, I think.
Clearly, once he ran over the legs of one of the bike riders this infuriated the riders and there was clearly intent to harm after that point (by the hooligans), but maybe all of that could have been avoided if he didn't accelerate away?
Hard to say.
As for a fair trial, you make a great point. We here are all motorcyclists and come with our own biases in favor of motorcyclists and yet we are (mostly) condemning the hooligan bike riders. I'm sure that the lawyers will try and exclude anyone who is an avid motorcyclist. How do you imagine Joe and Betty average American non-motorcyclist will feel about all of this?
I'm not sure how they would be able to exclude the video evidence since it was lawfully obtained from the idiot hooligans who willfully posted it in the public domain, albeit only for a short time. Once implied, that permission cannot be undone.
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Chuck35
Well-known member
In many States, if you have any measurable blood alcohol level at an accident you are at fault. Apply that legal logic to the motorcyclists in this case. If they were riding without drivers licenses, proper tags and insurance....
How they have the audacity to claim they are victims is beyond my comprehension.
The rest of us jump thru hoops to keep things legal and above board. Anyone that has so much disregard for rules, laws and society in general shouldn't be expecting the legal system to protect them.
How they have the audacity to claim they are victims is beyond my comprehension.
The rest of us jump thru hoops to keep things legal and above board. Anyone that has so much disregard for rules, laws and society in general shouldn't be expecting the legal system to protect them.
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Redfish Hunter
Gone Fishing
I know this is wrong on so many levels and we are all taught not to judge a book by its cover but... Did anyone see the photo on the news of the Internal Affairs officer who participated in the "Rally"? While I understand that an undercover officer has to look the part, does internal affairs have to do so as well? I would think that an Internal Affairs officer would be one of the more serious and trusted roles in the department. That guy was a "Straight Up Gangsta".
Again, I realize that an undercover cop has to get into his role. I respect that. But... I expect a police officer to look like... Uhhm (I HATE typing this) HotRodZilla. The pics we have here of Zilla are of a clean cut yet intimidating family man. Other than the ugly part, Zilla looks like a police officer should. These guys look like, well, thugs.
Again, I realize that an undercover cop has to get into his role. I respect that. But... I expect a police officer to look like... Uhhm (I HATE typing this) HotRodZilla. The pics we have here of Zilla are of a clean cut yet intimidating family man. Other than the ugly part, Zilla looks like a police officer should. These guys look like, well, thugs.
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Hey...RFH...UNDER COVER. Looking like a cop gets people hurt. There are rules though and they have to be followed. It's not like TV.
Redfish Hunter
Gone Fishing
I get that part. I am talking about the Internal Affairs officer. There has been no mention of him as an undercover officer. Have you seen the pic of him on TV?
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
No, but I have buddies that work for NYPD. Their IA unit is an entire division that stands alone. For all anyone knows, he's a "member" of a gang, assigned to watch the UC gang unit guy who is "in" the gang.
Internal Affairs units in eastern departments are very different than IA units across the rest of the country. I have no idea why he looks abnormal. Haha...
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
I love our FJR Forum, I really and truly do! I have been in Mexico for 8 days with no Internet and I return here to see AJ commenting on what normal versus abnormal looks like, Dios Mio mis Compadres: Check out HotRodZilla's muy feo and incredibly ugly mug and tell me if 'Zilla looks normal or not!!! jes' sayin' and nuff said!
https://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc198/beemerdons/September%202013/get-attachment-61aspx.jpeg
PS: I just mailed Mrs. HotRodZilla this T-shirt I bought for her, HRZ you can thank me later eh!
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bobg3723
Well-known member
Holy echo chamber Batman! In the court of public opinion there is no inquiry? I guess.
Ya know, I really find it strange, as pointed out by others as well, that Lien seemed unable to slow his SUV enough to avoid tapping Cruz as he was brake checking Lien. So if a photogrammetry expert comes on board to find out the rate at which Cruz was decelerating and another expert can testify that Lien's SUV was capable of decelerating in step or greater, then that would raise a whole bunch of questions for Lien's part in this. I wanna see some holes poked on both sides to make things interesting, dammit.
Ya know, I really find it strange, as pointed out by others as well, that Lien seemed unable to slow his SUV enough to avoid tapping Cruz as he was brake checking Lien. So if a photogrammetry expert comes on board to find out the rate at which Cruz was decelerating and another expert can testify that Lien's SUV was capable of decelerating in step or greater, then that would raise a whole bunch of questions for Lien's part in this. I wanna see some holes poked on both sides to make things interesting, dammit.
bobg3723
Well-known member
The only role this cop was after was a jelly roll.
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Redfish Hunter
Gone Fishing
Of all the threads to resurrect...
This one should have stayed dead until the trial results came out.
This one should have stayed dead until the trial results came out.
bobg3723
Well-known member
Add this thread to AMC's lineup, Red! Heheheee!
bobg3723
Well-known member
The Walking Thread.
