Flag voids warranty on Harley

[SoCalFJR1300]

FWIW; Harley does not offer trailers, trailer hitches, or trailer wiring connectors. They specifically tell owners in the manual that they're not approved for that and that it can affect your warranty.

That's the point I think. We're told clearly and up front things like "13 lbs in the trunk" and "no trunk and pannier usage together', etc. and then feel like we have a right to get pissed off when we ignore the instructions and damage the bike and don't get our way.
7 flags? Who the hell needs 7 flags on the back of a bike at 70 or 80 mph down the highway? I mean c'mon dude, have some common frikkin sense, take some responsibility for your choices, and suck it up. You could have rolled them up when slabbing it and unfurled them when leisurely cruising. You fucked it up so now you have to pay. Just like us, you can get away with it for a while, maybe forever, but sooner or later it jumps up and bites someone in the ass and all of a sudden there's a gang of hand-wringing, teeth-gnashing, over-wrought pussies pointing fingers and whining about how "they won't fix my fuck up for free. Woe is me, woe is me". Tough shit, that's life.

Here's a comment made by someone after that article....I agree.

What Harley-Davidson should have been asked is: Does your warranty actually exclude flag flying? If flying flags at highway speeds provides “terrific drag on the engine and the transmission” then can you show us the data that supports this? Will all flags regardless of size void such a claim or is there a size limit?

I just reread the article too and where does it say he was flying 7 flags? I could have missed it but I saw 3 large flags and a couple small ones.

No way that's more stress on a tranny than 500lbs of rider/passenger and gear!!

Not like it's rare for a manufacturer to try and weasel out of a warranty claim, naw THAT never happens!!

 

[ionbeam]

...I just reread the article too and where does it say he was flying 7 flags? I could have missed it but I saw 3 large flags and a couple small ones...

The caption under the picture says:

David Zien, seen here on one of his previous motorcycles

 

[JimNtexas]

I'm sorry, as a former student of aeronautical engineering I have to side with HD corporate on this one. A bunch of large flags at highway speeds will really put a LOT of drag on an already draggy motorcycle.

When I've ridden with the Patriot Guards they usually shroud the large flags when riding at highway speeds. For a reason.

 

[rushes]

I've never ridden a Harley, but for some reason I'm feeling I should.

There must be something there beyond normal.

I really can't understand the fuss.....

 

[gixxerjasen]

I rode them at a demo day at the motorcycle show. I still don't understand all the fuss. I did wear my bright yellow and black sport bike jacket instead of a fringed vest, so maybe I missed out on something.

 

[SoCalFJR1300]

I'm sorry, as a former student of aeronautical engineering I have to side with HD corporate on this one. A bunch of large flags at highway speeds will really put a LOT of drag on an already draggy motorcycle.
When I've ridden with the Patriot Guards they usually shroud the large flags when riding at highway speeds. For a reason.

No doubt they make SOME drag,the question is do they make enough drag to destroy a tranny??

If Harley is going to deny warranty because of flying a few flags behind a bike they should have to show proof that the flags drag indeed destroyed the tranny.

The fact that he's flown flags for years on other Harleys and NEVER had any problems tells you a lot right there, he had a tranny problem period, and the flags didn't have anything to do with it.

Guy needs to get a good lawyer and sue Harley for the repair cost, probably not enough money in it for the lawyer though.

 

[Bounce]

Think of it as riding all over hell's high water with a drogue chute deployed.

 

[beemerdons]

Think of it as riding all over hell's high water with a drogue chute deployed.

Very well said Bounce, tis a perfectly accurate description as to why the transmission is being damaged and why H-D Corporation SHOULD void the warranty!

 

[SoCalFJR1300]

Think of it as riding all over hell's high water with a drogue chute deployed.

Very well said Bounce, tis a perfectly accurate description as to why the transmission is being damaged and why H-D Corporation SHOULD void the warranty!

Naw....a chute actually "captures" the wind.....the flags are just flapping, big difference in drag.

It DOES create some drag and it doesn't say he was going at a great rate of speed with the flags waving either.

If a few flags drag will ruin a transmission Harley needs to make stonger transmissions, and why didn't it ruin the trannys of the OTHER Harleys he rode??

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Anyone who thinks a flag does not add much drag should try running while holding one. If this person were to attempt holding the flags in his hand while traveling at speed I would guess he might begin to understand. There is far more strain on a flagpole than most folks realize.

Harley has been steadily increasing the horsepower and torque of their engines just like every other manufacturer. As power increases and the loads the owner wants to drag also increase a weak point will be found. I did not see exactly what the "failure" inside the transmission was so we really don't have much to work with here.

It seems that this guy has steadily increased his number of flags until he found the breaking point. Now he wants someone else to pay for his stupidity. While I support most forms of self expression and certainly support flying the American Flag, I have no sympathy for this person. It seems to me that the sheer # of flags is an attempt to be "noticed" and to be the center of attention. Then he was able to use the results of being an asshat to get even more attention.

This actually makes me want to go buy a Harley.

 

[TheZsdad]

The way I read the connecting article about this is HD denied his warranty claim on a clutch replacement. I always though manual clutches

were exempted by all car and motorcycle manufactures anyway. Another peeve I have on this is Flag Code says the flag should not be displayed in away

that it can be soiled or damaged. In a quote by Zien "More people should be flying flags. I believe a tattered flag is a beautiful thing," Zien said.

His quote makes my think indeed he fly's the flag/flags at highway speeds probably in the rain etc. etc. I could go on but think I'll leave it at that.

 

[gixxerjasen]

why didn't it ruin the trannys of the OTHER Harleys he rode??

Too much we don't know to allow this to be any kind of proof. Did he fly this many flags on his other bikes? Did he ride the same number of miles with those flags? Did he ride the same speeds with those flags? This transmission may have been within tolerances but might have been closer to the edge of those tolerances than his other bikes. Who is to say that there wasn't transmission damage on the other ones but it didn't manifest itself in the same way it did on this one? Maybe the other ones had problems but showed up outside of warranty and he just traded in the bike instead of paying to get it fixed.

Without a full teardown of his other bikes, there's no way to know what did or didn't happen to them.

 

[dcarver]

This actually makes me want to go buy a Harley.

AttaBoy!

 

[SoCalFJR1300]

why didn't it ruin the trannys of the OTHER Harleys he rode??

Too much we don't know to allow this to be any kind of proof. Did he fly this many flags on his other bikes? Did he ride the same number of miles with those flags? Did he ride the same speeds with those flags? This transmission may have been within tolerances but might have been closer to the edge of those tolerances than his other bikes. Who is to say that there wasn't transmission damage on the other ones but it didn't manifest itself in the same way it did on this one? Maybe the other ones had problems but showed up outside of warranty and he just traded in the bike instead of paying to get it fixed.

Without a full teardown of his other bikes, there's no way to know what did or didn't happen to them.

You're right!
AND unless Harley can PROVE the flags he flew caused the damage they shouldn't void the warranty either. it swings both ways IMOP.

 

[redzgrider]

I've had a jacket come loose on a bike, and the drag can be scary -- the drogue chute comparison seems completely accurate to me. As an engineer, I have experience with technicians miss-using my tools and ignoring design parameters. It's stupid of them, and it's stupid of the Harley guy.

 

[SoCalFJR1300]

I've had a jacket come loose on a bike, and the drag can be scary -- the drogue chute comparison seems completely accurate to me. As an engineer, I have experience with technicians miss-using my tools and ignoring design parameters. It's stupid of them, and it's stupid of the Harley guy.

So if the comparison is accurate why don't they use flags flapping behind cars at the drag strip instead of a chute? It would be cheaper to use flags.

Also why don't they use flags flapping above them instead of a chute when they go sky diving?

Again flags would be cheaper.

A chute totally encapsulates the air, the flags don't.

 

[TheZsdad]

Everyone realizes the warranty claim is on a Trike with 15k miles on it (not a bike) that weighs 1215 lbs wet.

And the warranty claim was for a clutch not a transmission that HD denied.

 

[gixxerjasen]

I've had a jacket come loose on a bike, and the drag can be scary -- the drogue chute comparison seems completely accurate to me. As an engineer, I have experience with technicians miss-using my tools and ignoring design parameters. It's stupid of them, and it's stupid of the Harley guy.

So if the comparison is accurate why don't they use flags flapping behind cars at the drag strip instead of a chute? It would be cheaper to use flags.

Also why don't they use flags flapping above them instead of a chute when they go sky diving?

Again flags would be cheaper.

A chute totally encapsulates the air, the flags don't.

I've flown model rockets that use chutes, and some use just a long ribbon. That work for ya?

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Everyone realizes the warranty claim is on a Trike with 15k miles on it (not a bike) that weighs 1215 lbs wet.And the warranty claim was for a clutch not a transmission that HD denied.

Apparently not everyone. I just clicked on the link at the bottom of the article and read exactly that. The flags are tattered and if they are not touching the ground, they are very close. This includes a 3 foot by 5 foot American flag.

Again I support his right to self expression but he is wrong on this one. Harley might honor the warranty for good public relations but he caused his own problems.

 

[SoCalFJR1300]

I've had a jacket come loose on a bike, and the drag can be scary -- the drogue chute comparison seems completely accurate to me. As an engineer, I have experience with technicians miss-using my tools and ignoring design parameters. It's stupid of them, and it's stupid of the Harley guy.

So if the comparison is accurate why don't they use flags flapping behind cars at the drag strip instead of a chute? It would be cheaper to use flags.

Also why don't they use flags flapping above them instead of a chute when they go sky diving?

Again flags would be cheaper.

A chute totally encapsulates the air, the flags don't.

I've flown model rockets that use chutes, and some use just a long ribbon. That work for ya?

Fine and dandy, the one that uses the chute comes down slower because the chute creates much more drag.

Anyway,I don't have to worry, I don't fly flags and I don't buy Harleys.