HELP! Middle gear driven shaft question

[wheatonFJR]

Quick summary question for the ionbeams/ashes/FredWs, et al of this board...

I want to replace Item 7-Oil Seal, and the O-Ring that fits up with Item 9-middle driven shaft assembly.(Refage 5-65, Middle Gear section of the Yamaha Service Manual for my 2004)

My question is this: After I remove item 6 (end cover) to get access to the middle driven shaft assembly, can I just pull that assembly out as a unit?

OR will it all come apart and I will be in big doodoo with a bunch of misaligned pieces that need realignment? :dribble:

I would like to know if I can simply pull it out as a unit, replace the seal and O-ring, then put it back in as a unit.

Background/additional info:

I finally decided to learn how to lube pivot points (via Bounce's great fjrtips website) and do that maintenance before this year's riding. I know it has been long overdue. My bike was pretty sparkling clean when I bought it, but I know the previous owner rode during the winter ( I don't because of salt) and have found some issues with winter salt or other things since purchasing it.

One thing this second '04 has done since I've gotten it is seep oil on the left side pretty badly. My first FJR never did that. I was thinking that as long as I was maintaining the bike and into the U-joint, I would see if there was a way I could take care of that mess.

So before this big trip to Kali in May, I thought I better dive in and learn what needs to be done.

Pulled off the left side cover...

spooge on the back side of the cover...

spooge around the middle driven gear assembly and U-joint on the left side of the bike...

pointing to the area where I thought it was leaking...

However, looking at the assembly drawings, I believe the oil seal or O-ring has failed and is causing the messy leak.

Looking at these following photos, after I wiped things down a little bit, it looks like oil is dripping down on the header where the oil seal has a junction with the shaft end cover - item 6 on page 5-65.

So can you help me PLEASE with my question up top??? Does the assembly come out in one piece?

BTW, I got in there to do maintenance...look how CRAPPY my U-joint looks! :dribble:

I think running around in the winter salt took it's toll...I'm ashamed and embarrassed I didn't force myself to learn this earlier. Fortunately the U-joint still has full unrestricted motion...

After a little cleaning with WD-40 - per Bounce's site...

So please help if you can, all you mechanical experts out there, so I can fix this seepage mess!!

 

[HaulinAshe]

I've never had one out, maybe somebody else has been in there and can speak up?

There sure is a lot of gunk on the OUTSIDE surface of that housing. Are you confident you have a leak from the oil seal? That should produce a much larger and more wet collection of crud on the inside of the housing flanges.

I'd be very tempted to put it all back together and ride a while. Then go back and check for where the leak is originating, or if there is one worth fooling with.

That's a bad area for collecting oil from oil changes, and most everything else blow up from road surfaces.

 

[FJRBluesman]

I've never had one out, maybe somebody else has been in there and can speak up?

There sure is a lot of gunk on the OUTSIDE surface of that housing. Are you confident you have a leak from the oil seal? That should produce a much larger and more wet collection of crud on the inside of the housing flanges.

I'd be very tempted to put it all back together and ride a while. Then go back and check for where the leak is originating, or if there is one worth fooling with.

That's a bad area for collecting oil from oil changes, and most everything else blow up from road surfaces.

GUnny. Maybe it's just over lubed on the splines.
When's the last time you cleaned it like this, then how long did it take to get crudded up like it was?

 

[FJRay]

My 03 has had that seal changed twice under warranty. If I remember the bitch is the bolts are longer tnan there is room and the engine has to move foward a bit to get them out. I think the seal and o-ring are easy once the housing is off.

 

[slapnpop]

I don't know jack about changing the seals...

BUT! those photos look suspiciously like the photos I saw in a thread from the earliest times of the forum. Long story short was that the leak was originating at the rear drive, and traveling down the length of the drive shaft and swingarm passage to the u-joint. I don't remember if the cause was a faulty seal, or some other reason.

Just a suggestion to be absolutely certain that the leak is originating at the driven shaft before going after those seals.

 

[SkooterG]

You be in trouble buckaroo. To get at the seals, FJRay was right. Engine has to be moved to get the bolts out. I really doubt it's the rear drive. When I have had my three weeping rear drives the splooge never made it to the u-joint. And as for the U-joint, they all look like that after a few miles. As far as I am concerned, no big deal. I rarely service mine. Think I did it twice in 226k miles.

Definitely looks like you got a middle gear output shaft leak. Double bummer.

 

[Queensland Ken]

Hi,

By the looks of it it hasn't been that well maintained.

I'd clean it all up, do the lube and see what happens within 5K Kms or so.

That area gets rather messy at the best of times, may not be anything wrong at all, touch wood.

 

[wheatonFJR]

Thanks for the input guys. I really appreciate it. :clapping:

I think I will ride it for awhile and try to document the leak better. I may even just watch it until after the Kali trip.

Now that I know it's not so scary to open this up to get at the U-joint, I will be doing that on a real regular basis to take photos.

I knew that I was "exposing" myself to ridicule regarding maintenance in this area - which I richly deserve.

I am no mechanic...when I got my first FJR, I wasn't even confident enough to do an oil change. Now, I can do most of the maintenance on my bike...this is one of the last areas I have tried to tackle.

So yes, I'm embarassed, but also proud of what I have learned from others on this site...and the reference site like Bounce's Fjrtips.

I have not had this area of the bike open in the two years that I've had it. The bike was immaculate on the exterior when I got it. I should have looked at this atleast a year ago...maybe right after I got it...but I made an ASSumption about it's delivered condition.

 

[wheatonFJR]

...Definitely looks like you got a middle gear output shaft leak. Double bummer.

Yeah, unfortunately that's my gut feeling as well. My theory is that the salt helped cause some corrosion on the U-Joint and output shaft. The increased roughness of this shaft spinning around and rubbing against the seal, damaged the seal...allowing the seepage...the seepage dripped down at the front cover onto the header.

However, the data that Ashe brings up gives me a sliver of hope...I would have suspected more oil on the inside of the cover. :huh:

So, because the the enormous hassle pointed out by FJRay ...I will hold off and watch it for awhile to see if I can find another culprit than what I suspect to be true.

So clean it up, and lube the pivot points it is.

 

[Fred W]

You know, even though I've not had a leak in that area to reference, I don't really think that yours looks all that bad considering it has never been looked at or cleaned before , as you said. Stuff gets dirty and inside that area you can't ever clean it unless you disassemble it.

Imagine how the rest of your bike would look if it never got cleaned...

(sorry I'm of no more help)

 

[SkooterG]

You know, even though I've not had a leak in that area to reference, I don't really think that yours looks all that bad considering it has never been looked at or cleaned before , as you said. Stuff gets dirty and inside that area you can't ever clean it unless you disassemble it.

No, there's something amiss there. In 226k miles, I only went to that area twice. And mine NEVER looked anywhere near that bad.

And wheatie, I don't think salt or corrosion to the output shaft is your problem. Sometimes they just leak. I've seen it before here on the forum. Luckily, for most of us, it doesn't happen very often.

Funny, but just the other day I saw a Craigslist ad for an 04 with a leaking middle gear output shaft. He had it priced pretty aggressively, but who would want to buy a bike with that job to do.

 

[Bustanut joker]

I'm in agreement with Scooter here.. The header picture sure looks like something is dripping down on it as opposed to being tossed up from the road.

Given that, unless you have to add excessive amount of oil between changes I'd just button it up till next fall.

 

[HaulinAshe]

Somebody tell Grumpy that I would have to STOP cleaning my bike to find that leak. It wouldn't drip enough oil between washings to ever show up.



Hey Wheatie, you can use CRC QD Electronics Cleaner (available most any auto store) to clean that area without fear of spotting plastic finishes. 50 cans of spray cleaner... OR move the friggin' engine forward for clearance??? Either one should get you through this year.

 

[wheatonFJR]

...Given that, unless you have to add excessive amount of oil between changes I'd just button it up till next fall.

No excessive amount of oil lost...I never see any change in the oil level window.

Hey Wheatie, you can use CRC QD Electronics Cleaner (available most any auto store) to clean that area without fear of spotting plastic finishes...

Thanks Jeff! :clapping:

 

[snackbauer]

WheatonFJR, I'm curious as to the resolution, I'm seeing some similar crud in this area on my 2010.

 

[dsmack]

You would probably have better luck contacting Wheatie with your question by sending him a PM.

Last time he looked at this thread was over a year ago, and chances are he won't see your request.

Good luck,

Don

 

[SkooterG]

You would probably have better luck contacting Wheatie with your question by sending him a PM.

Last time he looked at this thread was over a year ago, and chances are he won't see your request.

Good luck,

Don

And he's been at the EOM get together this whole weekend. Bastard. Here I am in Wheaton, and he's off galavanting somewhere else. No respect I tells ya, I get NO respect!

 

[wheatonFJR]

WheatonFJR, I'm curious as to the resolution, I'm seeing some similar crud in this area on my 2010.

The resolution is this...I can either wipe away the minor, but annoying, seapage that I get from this, or I can take the engine out to get to the middle gear and replace that and reverse the process.

I am doing the former...riding and wiping as needed. Annoying...but quickly forgotten as I high rev my way through the roads of life on my FJR. I wipe off the smile on my face after the ride is over....then I take the same hankie and wipe the oil soaked dirt.

You would probably have better luck contacting Wheatie with your question by sending him a PM.

Last time he looked at this thread was over a year ago, and chances are he won't see your request.

Good luck,

Don

That's true...but I use the "view new posts" thread...so I get to atleast have a chance to see see the list of posts made since the last time I signed on. The only time I might miss something is of I'm off at EOM or off on a 17day adventure out to Kali to meet with my favorite FJR friends from out west, and there's 36 pages of posts in there. Then you might sneak one past me...

And he's been at the EOM get together this whole weekend. Bastard. Here I am in Wheaton, and he's off galavanting somewhere else. No respect I tells ya, I get NO respect!

Hey buddy, send a PM, I coulda told you about this great thing out east called the EOM. There are people out east who ride FJRs and have some of the best damn roads in the country. I know...I just rode 'em...sucka!

Just kidding Skooter, I'm glad you had a chance to come back and visit the Motherland. Next time I'll bake a cake for you. :lol:

 

[snackbauer]

Thanks Wheaton, I saw you were at EOM and wasn't expecting a quick response. While I was lubing the shift lever pivot, I wiped off the seepage and crud that had collected. So far, after a couple hundred miles, so good. The bike is still under warranty, but I'd hate to have to take it in. I did get a bit sloppy with the Honda Pro Moly when I did the splines and U-joint, some of that was flung around that area, maybe that's all it was. Anyway, after a couple hundred miles it's still clean. And thanks again, glad you had a good trip.