Shakin' All Over

[CCook82]

With wear on the Avons (meaning with cupping in the front tire) my 05 will shake on decel. Just mounted a Pilot Road. Will see what it does when some salt , and ice are off the road.

 

[twowheelnut]

The only real solution to the problem that I know of is to add a steering damper to dampen out the oscillations. But that comes at a cost of responsiveness to counter steering input. There simply is no magic bullet. Keep your steering bearings tight, and good tires on the bike, and try not to take your hands off the bars around 40mph, especially with cold tires.

Huh? How about setting the suspension properly? Why does everyone overlook the value of taking some time and setting the suspension? I'm not discounting your comments Fred, but a steering damper is completely unnecessary on this platform. You said it yourself, 'load up the front end more' and that means setting the suspension to the rider.

By the way, where's Mr. Wobble, hissownsef, Howie?

 

[racer157]

I have a couple of questions. Do you have an aftermarket tour box on the bike and what do you carry in it? How many miles are on the bike? Any weight that is behind the rear axle will possibly cause a amplification of a out of balance suspension. Most bikes will need their steering head bearings replaced between 15,000 to 20,000 miles. Fork oil should be replaced every 10,000. Rear suspenion linkage should be relubed and checked closely for wear every 10,000. Also be very careful to stay with the original tire sizes. I live a couple of miles north of you in Lake County. If this persists contact me. I can fix it.

 

[James Burleigh]

I have a couple of questions. Do you have an aftermarket tour box on the bike and what do you carry in it? How many miles are on the bike? Any weight that is behind the rear axle will possibly cause a amplification of a out of balance suspension. Most bikes will need their steering head bearings replaced between 15,000 to 20,000 miles. Fork oil should be replaced every 10,000. Rear suspenion linkage should be relubed and checked closely for wear every 10,000. Also be very careful to stay with the original tire sizes. I live a couple of miles north of you in Lake County. If this persists contact me. I can fix it.

First of all, thank you all for your thoughtful and detailed responses to my question / problem. Having little more than a crescent wrench in my garage (uh, adjustable spanner for those across the Pond), I don't think I will personally take apart my whole front end to monkey with anything, particularly since I'm pretty sure it all has to go back together properly.

But I did just turn over 20K on the bike, and will bring this up at my next service. I also carry a GIVI V46 on the back loaded up with a fairly heavy computer bag. And yes, the shimmying is upon deceleration at about 40MPH, which some responses have touched on. Next time I'm on the freeway racing with Lamborghinis , perhaps I'll take my hands off and see if I crash or not (at that speed I probably won't have time to catch it between shimmy and tank-slapper).

Thank you all again. When I do take it in I'll bring some of your comments to the dealer.

Racer157, I don't see you on the list for the ride next weekend in Napa....

Jb

 

[Silver Penguin]

I've noticed the same thing with my '03 which has 34K miles. The wobble is easily calmed by putting both hands back where they belong. It doesn't happen when only one hand is taken off the bars.

DH attributes the problem to messing with the bike's geometry by adding dogbone lowers.

Jill

 

[twowheelnut]

I've noticed the same thing with my '03 which has 34K miles. The wobble is easily calmed by putting both hands back where they belong. It doesn't happen when only one hand is taken off the bars.
DH attributes the problem to messing with the bike's geometry by adding dogbone lowers.

Jill

Did you lower, er, raise the forks in the TT the same amount?

 

[racer157]

I have a couple of questions. Do you have an aftermarket tour box on the bike and what do you carry in it? How many miles are on the bike? Any weight that is behind the rear axle will possibly cause a amplification of a out of balance suspension. Most bikes will need their steering head bearings replaced between 15,000 to 20,000 miles. Fork oil should be replaced every 10,000. Rear suspenion linkage should be relubed and checked closely for wear every 10,000. Also be very careful to stay with the original tire sizes. I live a couple of miles north of you in Lake County. If this persists contact me. I can fix it.

First of all, thank you all for your thoughtful and detailed responses to my question / problem. Having little more than a crescent wrench in my garage (uh, adjustable spanner for those across the Pond), I don't think I will personally take apart my whole front end to monkey with anything, particularly since I'm pretty sure it all has to go back together properly.

But I did just turn over 20K on the bike, and will bring this up at my next service. I also carry a GIVI V46 on the back loaded up with a fairly heavy computer bag. And yes, the shimmying is upon deceleration at about 40MPH, which some responses have touched on. Next time I'm on the freeway racing with Lamborghinis , perhaps I'll take my hands off and see if I crash or not (at that speed I probably won't have time to catch it between shimmy and tank-slapper).

Thank you all again. When I do take it in I'll bring some of your comments to the dealer.

Racer157, I don't see you on the list for the ride next weekend in Napa....

There's a list for a ride? When ,where and how do I contact the organizer? I would love to.

Jb

 

[Silver Penguin]

I've noticed the same thing with my '03 which has 34K miles. The wobble is easily calmed by putting both hands back where they belong. It doesn't happen when only one hand is taken off the bars.
DH attributes the problem to messing with the bike's geometry by adding dogbone lowers.

Jill

Did you lower, er, raise the forks in the TT the same amount?

He did something to the forks when he put the lowers on, and appeared to know what he was doing. It's taken me a long time to learn not to question what a man does in his garage.

Of course, it's only recently that I've had the confidence to release the bars from my white-knuckled grip. The bike may have done this all along. It calms very easily, with a gentle touch on the bars.

Jill

 

[RadioHowie]

[...]By the way, where's Mr. Wobble, hissownsef, Howie?

Right here, ya ornery ol' bastiche.

Been in lurk mode for several weeks, since I can't seem to hang out without pissin' someone off.

But, been reading this thread with GREAT interest, seein's how I get smacked about whenever I bring up the subject of steering damper or wobble.

Interestingly though, I can report on a couple of items related to wobble and tires....

Burned out my Avon 45 around 7000 miles. A slight disappointment, really, since I had hoped for more mileage. The 46 rear unbelievably still had plenty to go. But even before the 45 was cupped-to-death (cord showing in a scalloped pattern) that sucker wobbled.

Got interested in the Avon Storm threads posted back in, what was it, December? So I put a set on. Did the wheel installs myself, so it took the "unknown" quantity out of the mechanic'ing. The VERY last thing I did before driving on the new shoes was to leave the front axle semi-loose, the pinch bolt semi-loose and rocked the bike up and down VERY hard on the front forks by locking the front brakes and forcing the front end up and down. I'd read in MANY forums that little trick helps assure a correctly lined-up fork assembly. Then I torqued the front end.

I'm happy to report that MY 48mph wobble is completely gone. Nada. Zilch. Zero.

I'm crediting the Storm with 99.44% of the cure and my "lining up" the forks with the pumping action as .56% of the cure.

Regardless of the REAL reason the wobble is gone, it's gone.

However...I'm feeling a bit vindicated by this thread when most of you phuquers poo-poo'd my complaints about a decel shake.

I believe it was Iggy who told me it was too bad I got the only bad FJR in the 2004 run? That FJRs don't wobble? Er..Um..sure!

<_<

 

[twowheelnut]

Yeah, well, you're still a poopy-head. FJR's don't wobble, only Weebles wobble! :fuck:

 

[RadioHowie]

Yeah, well, you're still a poopy-head. FJR's don't wobble, only Weebles wobble! :fuck:

Glad to be back.....and apparently riding one of the few NON wobbling FJRs in the world. And :fuck: U2

 

[GPRIDER]

Yeah, well, you're still a poopy-head. FJR's don't wobble, only Weebles wobble! :fuck:

Glad to be back.....and apparently riding one of the few NON wobbling FJRs in the world. And :fuck: U2

I've never really had any wobbles on my 04 except when the tires are pretty worn. And even then it is almost neglegible. I was really leaning toward the Avon Storms for the next set. Howie thanks for your report.

GP

 

[warsw]

Huh? How about setting the suspension properly? Why does everyone overlook the value of taking some time and setting the suspension? I'm not discounting your comments Fred, but a steering damper is completely unnecessary on this platform. You said it yourself, 'load up the front end more' and that means setting the suspension to the rider.

I think that TWN has brought up a good point. I have been very lucky so far and have never had headshake (wobble) on any of my street bikes but I do know how important proper suspension set-up is on a dirt bike. Very little change in the suspension set-up can be the difference in the bars staying straight over rough ground or the headshake being so bad it will through you over the bars. I am sure that a street bike is probably more forgiving but, to get best performance, it is still critical.

 

[James Burleigh]

So I talked to my mechanic today. He said before I rebuild my front end or some such, experiment with increasing the pre-load in the back to add a little weight to the front. At least, that's what I think he said. He also said we can also check the front whoosits bearings on the next service and see if they need adjusting. So, uh, I guess I've got that going for me...

Jb

Not the Most Techie-Mechanical-Fix-It FJR Rider

 

[twowheelnut]

So I talked to my mechanic today. He said before I rebuild my front end or some such, experiment with increasing the pre-load in the back to add a little weight to the front. At least, that's what I think he said. He also said we can also check the front whoosits bearings on the next service and see if they need adjusting. So, uh, I guess I've got that going for me...
Jb

Not the Most Techie-Mechanical-Fix-It FJR Rider

Dat's what I've been sayin'... Sheesh, if you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. :dntknw: The other thing you might try is raising the tubes *slightly* in the triptrees if that rear adjustment doesn't work. Maybe like 1/8" at a time. That should also load up the front some, too. Oh, and back out some compression rebound 1 click at a time on the forks first before monkeying with the tubes.

Just a suggestion, but grab the tools needed to adjust the forks (17 mm wrench and a flat blade screw driver) and return all settings back to stock (see your MOM). Suit up and go for a ride. On your favorite twisty road set your rear shock to 'firm', make one adjustment to the stock fork settings - I would suggest preload - and wind it down 1/2 line and go for a ride. Make a note of the difference, stop make another adjustment down to the second line and so on. Once you feel that the preload setting feels great, fuck it up by adjusting the compression or rebound damping by 1 click to the 'hard side' and make the same run. Keep repeating this, varying the combinations and you will quickly gain a 'feel' for whats going on with each adjustment. By the end of the afternoon, you will have found a sweet spot for you and I bet that that wobble will have been dialed mostly out, if not totally.

 

[James Burleigh]

So I talked to my mechanic today. He said before I rebuild my front end or some such, experiment with increasing the pre-load in the back to add a little weight to the front. At least, that's what I think he said. He also said we can also check the front whoosits bearings on the next service and see if they need adjusting. So, uh, I guess I've got that going for me...
Jb

Not the Most Techie-Mechanical-Fix-It FJR Rider

...grab the tools needed to adjust the forks (17 mm wrench and a flat blade screw driver) and return all settings back to stock (see your MOM). Suit up and go for a ride. On your favorite twisty road set your rear shock to 'firm', make one adjustment to the stock fork settings - I would suggest preload - and wind it down 1/2 line and go for a ride. Make a note of the difference, stop make another adjustment down to the second line and so on. Once you feel that the preload setting feels great, fuck it up by adjusting the compression or rebound damping by 1 click to the 'hard side' and make the same run. Keep repeating this, varying the combinations and you will quickly gain a 'feel' for whats going on with each adjustment. By the end of the afternoon, you will have found a sweet spot for you and I bet that that wobble will have been dialed mostly out, if not totally.

This is helpful, thank you. Because although I heard your recommendation to adjust the suspension properly, I didn't really have a sense of just exactly how to go about doing that. I mean, I've read the owner's manual and clipped and studied Motorcyclist magazine's special on adjusting your suspension and what all the settings do and mean.... But exactly what the steps are, or the process, well, now I know....!

Jb

 

[twowheelnut]

This is helpful, thank you. Because although I heard your recommendation to adjust the suspension properly, I didn't really have a sense of just exactly how to go about doing that. I mean, I've read the owner's manual and clipped and studied Motorcyclist magazine's special on adjusting your suspension and what all the settings do and mean.... But exactly what the steps are, or the process, well, now I know....!
Jb

If you wanna spend 25 bucks on a good book click here. Simply put suspension history, mechanics and tuning. Well worth the investment. Further, there's a 5% discount coupon in there for their products which I personally highly recommend.

 

[Scab]

Ole TWN, might I suggest a WFO clinic? I promise to be quiet and take good notes.

 

[twowheelnut]

Ole TWN, might I suggest a WFO clinic? I promise to be quiet and take good notes.

Rumor has it that a true suspension guru will be there and if we're all real nice to him and fill up his order book, I'm SURE me and O'vale can talk him into a tuning seminar for those of you who are interested.

 

[Afast03nNJ]

We've discussed this quite a bit here.
You're probably doing right around 35-40 mph right? Maybe downhill a bit so it would stay at a steady speed without adding throttle? This is the worst case condition for this wobble because the front end of all motorcycles have a natural resonant frequency around 35 or 40 mph. Most bikes will wobble to some extent at one specfiic speed if you hold it there.

Most rediculous thing I've ever heard. My 03 has never wobbled, even with worn cupped Bridgestones. My 1989 FJ1200 never wobbled either, even with 70,000 miles on the clock. I've owned 3 bikes and racked up well over 120,000 miles of riding and never once had a bike that wobbled when I took my hands off the bars.