Shifting issue identified, culprit found

[Cosmin]

Hello all,

I am reviving a little this thread since I'm facing for a long time an issue related to 3rd-4th gear engagement (current mileage 72.000 - issues started at about 30.000miles). The symptoms are different from those described by the topic starter (in his case it was jumping out of gear, in my case I'm facing in ~75% of the cases rough 3rd and 4th gear engagement especially during harder acceleration shifting). I always use the clutch for both down and up-shifting but I was just suspecting a common issue for '06-'07 FJRs for 3rd-4th gear which apparently was corrected in '08 (and the redesigned parts are interchangebale too). Are several '06-'07 owners affected by this issue? Should I expect (after dismantling) the need to change the 3-4gear kit plus the relevant shift forks?

Thanks.

 

[RossKean]

I don't know what you have or haven't done so far but I would start with completely dismantling the shift linkage/pivot and doing a thorough clean and lube of all moving parts. Make sure the pivot isn't over-tightened upon re-assembly. Other than that, make sure that the clutch is properly bled and has good clean fluid.

If you have already done all of that, you may have to dig into it. I wouldn't "expect" to find a problem with gears or forks but anything is possible. (No issues with my high-mileage '07)

 

[rPGoatBoy]

If it's not jumping out of gear, I don't see a need to split the engine cases for a repair, at the very least without trying other things first. Have you tried preloading the shift lever before pulling the clutch in? Perhaps a shift additive?

There was a design change in the transmission between Gen 1 --> '07 to the '08 model year, but it wasn't significant. Yamaha added to the number of dogs and pockets on the sides of that 3-4 cluster.

I did have a picture somewhere, but not online at the moment. That change could've made the shift a smoother shift between 3 and 4, but as someone who replaced the transmission of his '06 with an '08, I hardly noticed a difference. My problem was with 2nd gear jumping out, so I split my case for a different reason, but the repair would essentially be the same.

This should probably be it's own thread, there have been a number of case splittings since this five year old thread came about.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Engine oil choice can sometimes influence shift quality..... perhaps try Rotella 15W40 and see if it improves.

 

[Cosmin]

Thanks for replies.
I did lubricate the shift linkage/pivot in the past with little or no improvement. Also the clutch oil was changed several times, bleeding performed correctly but with no improvement.

Also taking into account that only 3rd and 4th are affected, I assumed that a linkage or clutch problems should affect all gears. Taking info from this threat I continued withing the same one, thinking it might be 3-4 gear wheel related or fork shift, even if my symptoms (roughness versus no jumping from gear) are slightly different.

About engine oil - indeed, after the oil change (the first 1-1500 miles) the situation is better, after that it gets back to 'normal' roughness. Changing the brand/viscosity didn't bring much improvement...

Perhaps in winter (at the next full inspection) I will investigate this issue more in detail, even if it involves splitting the cases. Installing the '08 model 3rd-4th gear wheels should bring an improvement (at least compared to my current situation). But first the splitting and parts inspection.

 

[Auburn]

Thanks for replies.I did lubricate the shift linkage/pivot in the past with little or no improvement. Also the clutch oil was changed several times, bleeding performed correctly but with no improvement.

Also taking into account that only 3rd and 4th are affected, I assumed that a linkage or clutch problems should affect all gears. Taking info from this threat I continued withing the same one, thinking it might be 3-4 gear wheel related or fork shift, even if my symptoms (roughness versus no jumping from gear) are slightly different.

About engine oil - indeed, after the oil change (the first 1-1500 miles) the situation is better, after that it gets back to 'normal' roughness. Changing the brand/viscosity didn't bring much improvement...

Perhaps in winter (at the next full inspection) I will investigate this issue more in detail, even if it involves splitting the cases. Installing the '08 model 3rd-4th gear wheels should bring an improvement (at least compared to my current situation). But first the splitting and parts inspection.

Try adding a little STP oil treatment. I use it with the Rotella T-6 5w40 and there is a significant difference in the smoothness of shifting. I don't know if you have it available where you are, or if there is something similar you can get.

 

[N4HHE]

Try adding a little STP oil treatment. I use it with the Rotella T-6 15w40 and there is a significant difference in the smoothness of shifting. I don't know if you have it available where you are, or if there is something similar you can get.

Picking nits, Rotella T6 is 5W-40.

 

[Auburn]

Try adding a little STP oil treatment. I use it with the Rotella T-6 15w40 and there is a significant difference in the smoothness of shifting. I don't know if you have it available where you are, or if there is something similar you can get.

Picking nits, Rotella T6 is 5W-40.

yep, typo...

 

[Fred W]

When I ran T6 I also used a little STP. Lately I've been using Mobil 1 15W50 and not felt a need for the STP for smoother shifts, even on the same old bike w/ 100k miles on it

Oil will definitely affect your shift quality, especially as it (the oil) ages..

 

[Cosmin]

Lately I've been using Mobil 1 15W50

Do you use the regular car oil from Mobil1 with 15W50 viscosity?! Or they have also bikes oils with this specs?

Thanks.

 

[Bounce]

I've been using regular M1 15w50 since after break in. Helps smoother shifting and noticeable if I have it in for some major service and they put normal oil back into it.

Good for the full distance between changes for me (3k - 5k miles).

 

[audiowize]

 

[HotRodZilla]

Hello all,
I am reviving a little this thread since I'm facing for a long time an issue related to 3rd-4th gear engagement (current mileage 72.000 - issues started at about 30.000miles). The symptoms are different from those described by the topic starter (in his case it was jumping out of gear, in my case I'm facing in ~75% of the cases rough 3rd and 4th gear engagement especially during harder acceleration shifting). I always use the clutch for both down and up-shifting but I was just suspecting a common issue for '06-'07 FJRs for 3rd-4th gear which apparently was corrected in '08 (and the redesigned parts are interchangebale too). Are several '06-'07 owners affected by this issue? Should I expect (after dismantling) the need to change the 3-4gear kit plus the relevant shift forks?

Thanks.

How would you describe this EXACTLY? Is it always and only upshifts from 3rd to 4th? Does it almost feel like a "popping;" like it is banging against something? Mostly on hard upshifts, and even then, not always, but sometimes enough that you miss 4th and end up still in 3rd?

I've had an issue like that for about 40k miles now. NO issues with other gears, and it's on and off, like one dog has a burr on it and every now and then it catches. The rest of the time, it's super smooth. The only time it catches me is if I sort of shift lazily. The if it happens, it may prevent me from taking 4th. That hasn't happened in a LONG time. It also has not gotten any worse during that time.

I took it to my dealer twice while still under warranry, and they said they couldn't find an issue. I have lubed the shifter, bled the clutch, soaked my clutch, and cussed at it. None of that has made any difference. IF what I described is what you have, I think you're the only other bike besides mine with that issue. I have a 2007, and I first noticed it around 20k miles, on my home from Tennessee.

Is this what you have going on?

 

[Cosmin]

Hello all,

I am reviving a little this thread since I'm facing for a long time an issue related to 3rd-4th gear engagement (current mileage 72.000 - issues started at about 30.000miles). The symptoms are different from those described by the topic starter (in his case it was jumping out of gear, in my case I'm facing in ~75% of the cases rough 3rd and 4th gear engagement especially during harder acceleration shifting). I always use the clutch for both down and up-shifting but I was just suspecting a common issue for '06-'07 FJRs for 3rd-4th gear which apparently was corrected in '08 (and the redesigned parts are interchangebale too). Are several '06-'07 owners affected by this issue? Should I expect (after dismantling) the need to change the 3-4gear kit plus the relevant shift forks?

Thanks.

How would you describe this EXACTLY? Is it always and only upshifts from 3rd to 4th? Does it almost feel like a "popping;" like it is banging against something? Mostly on hard upshifts, and even then, not always, but sometimes enough that you miss 4th and end up still in 3rd?

I've had an issue like that for about 40k miles now. NO issues with other gears, and it's on and off, like one dog has a burr on it and every now and then it catches. The rest of the time, it's super smooth. The only time it catches me is if I sort of shift lazily. The if it happens, it may prevent me from taking 4th. That hasn't happened in a LONG time. It also has not gotten any worse during that time.

I took it to my dealer twice while still under warranry, and they said they couldn't find an issue. I have lubed the shifter, bled the clutch, soaked my clutch, and cussed at it. None of that has made any difference. IF what I described is what you have, I think you're the only other bike besides mine with that issue. I have a 2007, and I first noticed it around 20k miles, on my home from Tennessee.

Is this what you have going on?

I think our bikes are almost gearbox symptoms twins

. Yes, your description is quite similar to my bike's behaviour but some comments/differences:

- also in my case it happens indeed only in upshifts and only under harder upshifts (if I upshift from 3-4000 rpm during light acceleration it doesn't happen, only if I upshift from 6-7000rpm);

- symptoms are also some 'popping' and 'clunk' - and some sort of small back-hit in the foot from the shift-lever;

- at my bike it happens at upshifts both from 2nd to 3rd and also from 3rd to 4th, not only upshift to 4th like your case!

- I also noticed (perhaps started in the same time with this behaviour) some sort of longer gear-lever travel for shifting (I need to raise/lower the boot higher/lower than in the beginning for the same shifting); no significant visible free-play in the shifter articulations though...

- in a few cases (10% probably) I also fail the upshift (as if I don't raise enough the shift lever and it jumps back in 2nd or 3rd instead of the upshift to 3rd or 4th);

- also in my case after it appeared it hasn't evolved significantly, meaning that the cluck/popping is as hard/tough as at the moment when it first occured but, indeed, it happens more and more often. I would estimate that today it happens at 70-80% of the hard upshifting.

Though it's strange it's just the 2 of us complaining precisely about this issue - perhaps most of the FJR owners are much lazier riders (seldom or zero hard upshifting)?!

I assumed that the installation of the 'revised' 2008 model 3rd-4th gears (and fork if it shows wear signs) might improve/solve the issue but, in this phase, I don't know if it can get any worse and it is worth spliting cases for that issue?! According to recommendations, I could live with these symptoms until it may start jumping from gear etc which are definitely signs of worn parts in the gear box...

 

[rPGoatBoy]

Here are a couple of engine splitting threads for you to read before you take on this endeavor, if you haven't read them already. I suspect you may have a broken shift fork if as you say you're experiencing this issue 70-80% of the time. The shift fork is wishbone shaped, and I could see how a broken/severely bent or worn leg of the shift fork could produce the problem you're experiencing.

Streethawk bought an '07 with a transmission problem for a song and took this job on as a winter project.

And Walt Fooshee also did a great writeup when his shift barrel broke and had to split his case, despite being a Floridian and not having a winter project season. Page 8 of the thread features a load path diagram he made, and page 9 has a video of how the transmission shifts.

My advice to you (as someone who has done this twice), don't buy/order anything until you have the engine split open and the transmission out in front of you. Are you reasonably able to buy and have shipped parts to you in Romania, or are you at the mercy of your local Yamaha dealership?

 

[Cosmin]

Thanks for details, I think I already read in the past Streethawk's topic, when I started having the symptoms but I gradually got used to the issue. My main concern is if it's going to get worse and it can cause gearbox stuck in one gear etc (something to get me stranded far away from home during a longer trip). Though the impression is that in the past 15-20.000 miles the behavior is constant...

Anyway this autumn I'll keep monitoring it and evaluate if it's worth splitting cases (winter project) or I should postpone it for one more season. Regarding spare parts - fortunately for about 2 years Yamaha local dealer changed the supplier (from South Europe stream to Netherlands European Yamaha central warehouse) and most of the parts are delivered within 1 week!

 

[Cosmin]

Have you tried preloading the shift lever before pulling the clutch in?

I forgot to mention that I did try the preload and the shifting is indeed significantly improved. Unfortunately due to other plans I didn't have the chance to send my FJR to the dealer for case-split and inspection for what needs to be changed. So most probably this season I'll ride it with the same 3rd and 4th engagement issue.

Now the question is: if light preload on the shifter improves shifting - should I get used to applying it regularly? The concern was that if I have a slightly bent fork - the pre-load might bend it even more, causing additional issues in the gearbox?!

Thanks.

 

[Bounce]

Remember that, if there is an issue inside, the longer you put it off the more costly the repair. Best to miss a little of the riding season and get it fixed than face a repair so high you face replacing the motor (or bike).

 

[Cosmin]

Remember that, if there is an issue inside, the longer you put it off the more costly the repair. Best to miss a little of the riding season and get it fixed than face a repair so high you face replacing the motor (or bike).

Thanks,

I'll take a decision these days if I start the season like this or I'll solve it though...