Tire Balance

[jmgrif]

I wish they would mark the tires (use to, some still do I guess but not my last PR2s anyways) on the light or heavy side. With TPM sensors on the valve stem side, you could automatically place the heavier side of the tire 180 away.
So as RPrice says "this prompted me to do my own tires"... me too! I went with this Derek Weaver combo for my man cave/garage: (I'm thinking it was $2100 for both units del'd)

If you and a few friends can afford it that is great stuff. I would also recommend Cycle Hill which I bought and have had great success, it is more labour intensive than those machines.but only a quarter of the cost.

 

[radiummadman]

guess I am one lucky SOB, have a great "shade tree" mechanic that charges $20.00 per tire on the bike to mount & balance. I usually give '

him $70.00 or the $40.00 plus a 12 pack of St. Paulie Girl. As a bonus I get to help him, which REALLY fucks him up. Oh well he deserves it.

 

[Jer]

A couple bottles of ride on might do the trick.

Not sure what ride on is, but if it messes up the inside of the tire I am not for it.

You didn't say what kind of tires you purchased and they could be bad, but for $110 to mount and balance, I would insist the dealer fix the problem, or never do business with them again. They want to charge you more money to fix their issue, not great customer service. On the other hand, do the change and balance yourself. The change is harder, but the balance is easy.

The tires are Michelin PR4's. I will probably try not to do business with "Power Yamaha, Kawasaki, KTM," but they are the only Yamaha dealer in the Salem area.

Changed tires and bike runs rough. Usually the last thing changed is the sourced of a new problem, especially on a new bike.
Take the bike to the dealer and explain to them you have purchased your bike, tires and labor from them. You might be a customer worth keeping. This problem came up after THEY installed a brand new tire THEY sold and THEY installed at considerable costs. It is not unreasonable for the customer to expect this bike to run perfectly, or at least as well as before THEY changed the tires.

While I think the threat to charge you if they don't find a mistake, I think there is a near 100% chance the tires are mis-balanced or out of round.

I purchased the tires online.

Some dealers only balance the front wheel and not the rear. Another thing you can check.

I am hoping that if I run the bike on the centerstand to freeway speeds I will be able to see if the rear tire is balanced or out of round.

Get three friends to go in with you and buy a tire changer and balancing set-up. Will cost each of you about what you just paid the dealer. You know who often gets stuck changing tires at a dealership? The new kid who dreams of becoming a mechanic someday.
The fact that you bought online makes it less likely the dealer is going to work friendly with you on this issue as you've already learned. Probably best to bite the bullet and have them balanced at another shop. If you take the wheels off and on it shouldn't cost much. If it is not the balance, then your assessment of you being screwed is dead on.

Lot of money for the one set a year I use.

I have considered pulling the front wheel and taking it somewhere else to check the balance, but the problem could be in the rear tire. Would it be dangerous to run the bike in 5th gear to an indicated speed of 70 or 75 where the balance problem is most noticeable to check the balance of the rear tire.?

Jer,
I have done this test with lesser bikes, with the bike on the centerstand. I parked the bike near a concrete wall, and then pivoted the bike to face straight at the wall, handlebars straight, and with the front tire touching the wall. I kept one hand on the bike seat, to feel for any vibration. My rear wheel was well balanced, and everything was smooth, as if the bike was not even running. I used the tachometer to run the rear wheel up a little past freeway speeds, in top gear. I kept the testing time short, and did not blip the throttle; I was not going looking for trouble. I have not tried this operation with my FJR so I do not know if the bike's computer or ABS would get confused and maybe complain in some way.

ABS light will come on, but no issue, will be normal after ignition turned off and on.

Thanks for the information

Balancing a tire is easy and free, if you have a small amount of ability (really small). I built this with materials I had laying around. It uses the axle right off the bike. Easy breezy.

I can't see how the axle attaches to your flatform, but I also have some scrapes that could be used for this setup.

 

[Jer]

A couple bottles of ride on might do the trick.

Not certain what ride on is, but wouldn't want to make a mess inside my tires and wheel.

You didn't say what kind of tires you purchased and they could be bad, but for $110 to mount and balance, I would insist the dealer fix the problem, or never do business with them again. They want to charge you more money to fix their issue, not great customer service. On the other hand, do the change and balance yourself. The change is harder, but the balance is easy.

The tires are Michelin PR4's.

Changed tires and bike runs rough. Usually the last thing changed is the sourced of a new problem, especially on a new bike.
Take the bike to the dealer and explain to them you have purchased your bike, tires and labor from them. You might be a customer worth keeping. This problem came up after THEY installed a brand new tire THEY sold and THEY installed at considerable costs. It is not unreasonable for the customer to expect this bike to run perfectly, or at least as well as before THEY changed the tires.

While I think the threat to charge you if they don't find a mistake, I think there is a near 100% chance the tires are mis-balanced or out of round.

I purchased the tires online. The dealer wanted something like $450 for a set.

Perhaps it is not out of balance,but perhaps it hasn't sit properly on the rim..Happened to me and the dealer uninstall the tyre from the rim,reinstall it again and the problem solved..Have a thought.

Thanks for the heads up.

Some dealers only balance the front wheel and not the rear. Another thing you can check.

Will put bike on centerstand and run up to freeway speed to check balance and or roundness.

I have considered pulling the front wheel and taking it somewhere else to check the balance, but the problem could be in the rear tire. Would it be dangerous to run the bike in 5th gear to an indicated speed of 70 or 75 where the balance problem is most noticeable to check the balance of the rear tire.?

Jer,

I have done this test with lesser bikes, with the bike on the centerstand. I parked the bike near a concrete wall, and then pivoted the bike to face straight at the wall, handlebars straight, and with the front tire touching the wall. I kept one hand on the bike seat, to feel for any vibration. My rear wheel was well balanced, and everything was smooth, as if the bike was not even running. I used the tachometer to run the rear wheel up a little past freeway speeds, in top gear. I kept the testing time short, and did not blip the throttle; I was not going looking for trouble. I have not tried this operation with my FJR so I do not know if the bike's computer or ABS would get confused and maybe complain in some way.

Thanks for the reply.

Get three friends to go in with you and buy a tire changer and balancing set-up. Will cost each of you about what you just paid the dealer. You know who often gets stuck changing tires at a dealership? The new kid who dreams of becoming a mechanic someday.
The fact that you bought online makes it less likely the dealer is going to work friendly with you on this issue as you've already learned. Probably best to bite the bullet and have them balanced at another shop. If you take the wheels off and on it shouldn't cost much. If it is not the balance, then your assessment of you being screwed is dead on.

I only go thru one set a year. Not sure it would pay off and besides who has three friends?

I have considered pulling the front wheel and taking it somewhere else to check the balance, but the problem could be in the rear tire. Would it be dangerous to run the bike in 5th gear to an indicated speed of 70 or 75 where the balance problem is most noticeable to check the balance of the rear tire.?

Jer,
I have done this test with lesser bikes, with the bike on the centerstand. I parked the bike near a concrete wall, and then pivoted the bike to face straight at the wall, handlebars straight, and with the front tire touching the wall. I kept one hand on the bike seat, to feel for any vibration. My rear wheel was well balanced, and everything was smooth, as if the bike was not even running. I used the tachometer to run the rear wheel up a little past freeway speeds, in top gear. I kept the testing time short, and did not blip the throttle; I was not going looking for trouble. I have not tried this operation with my FJR so I do not know if the bike's computer or ABS would get confused and maybe complain in some way.

ABS light will come on, but no issue, will be normal after ignition turned off and on.

Thanks for the info.

Balancing a tire is easy and free, if you have a small amount of ability (really small). I built this with materials I had laying around. It uses the axle right off the bike. Easy breezy.

I have some material around to make a setup like this, but I can't tell from the picture how the axle is attached to the platform.

Thanks to all for your replies.

 

[PhilJet09]

Oh sorry, the axle rides on top of four bearings ( two per side). My dad is a copier repairman and sometimes parts out broken machines. Good bearings are all over these things, so I have a whole bag full of them. Let me know, I can probably send you four of the same size. I'll look when I get home from the trip I'm on.

 

[Powerman]

Bad tires are rare, poor balance is not. Multiple times I've redone local dealers work on a static balancer.

Chuckle heads said you can't do a tire on a static unit, has to be high speed dynamic at the shop.

You know when I went to the races, Matt Maladin's crew chief used a static balancer, he seemed to do alright.

 

[RPrice]

Bad tires are rare, poor balance is not. Multiple times I've redone local dealers work on a static balancer.
Chuckle heads said you can't do a tire on a static unit, has to be high speed dynamic at the shop.

You know when I went to the races, Matt Maladin's crew chief used a static balancer, he seemed to do alright.

+1, static balancing seems to work great for me (on several sets of tires), as stated above, up to 130 mph, so far.............very smooth!

 

[twisted]

This works great as a static balancer, too. Not terribly expensive.

 

[Jer]

I would like to have one of these, but wait until I see how I am going to resolve the present balance problem.

 

[gumba]

If you let the community know that you have a tire machine/balancer you will become "TIRE GRUNT TO THE MASSES". Every low life s.o.b. on planet earth is going to show up at your garage door. The temptation is to boast about your new machine. Don't do it.

 

[Bungie]

If you let the community know that you have a tire machine/balancer you will become "TIRE GRUNT TO THE MASSES". Every low life s.o.b. on planet earth is going to show up at your garage door. The temptation is to boast about your new machine. Don't do it.

This.

I bought a Cycle Hill tire changer this past winter. Told a few of the guys I ride with, who I don't mind swapping tires for (so long as they help). All of a sudden I'm getting calls from people I don't even know asking what I'd charge.

For you $250, rims off the bike.

 

[petey]

Bad tires are rare, poor balance is not. Multiple times I've redone local dealers work on a static balancer.
Chuckle heads said you can't do a tire on a static unit, has to be high speed dynamic at the shop.

You know when I went to the races, Matt Maladin's crew chief used a static balancer, he seemed to do alright.

Static balancing ( if done correctly) IS the most accurate way to balance a tire/wheel, period...

 

[flyinlow]

Bad tires are rare, poor balance is not. Multiple times I've redone local dealers work on a static balancer.
Chuckle heads said you can't do a tire on a static unit, has to be high speed dynamic at the shop.

You know when I went to the races, Matt Maladin's crew chief used a static balancer, he seemed to do alright.

We must know the same people, I have had people with sport bikes swear up and down that they have to be balanced on a dynamic balancer, yet when you walk through the pits at most races you see static balancers all over the place. I have also redone many a shops balance work and ended up with less weights on the wheel and a satisfied rider. Have done dozens of tires with the static balancer and have never had a problem with my own, or with the friends and others I've done them for.

 

[Fred W]

For a motorcycle wheel, there is nothing to be gained from a dynamic balancer, that is unless it is also capable of doing road force measurements. That is where the runout of the rim and then the tire can be measured and the high spot of the wheel placed at the low spot of the tire. The problem with that is most MC tire makers do not pre-measure and mark their tires for runout. They only mark them for the light spot (if they bother to mark it at all).

Some manufacturers (Michelin being one) don't pre-measure or mark their tires at all, insisting that their quality control is so good they don't need to. Of course this is bullshit. Some of the worst tires to balance that I have ever seen have been Michelins. Even after breaking the bead and rotating the tire on the rim (after a heavy spot has been determined) they have still taken more lead to balance than other brands. And then sometimes you get them on and they don't take much if any.

On a car, dynamic balancing is more important because not only are you balancing the weight around the circumference, because the wheel and tire can be nearly a foot wide, you want to do that separately for both sides of the tire (inner and outer). We don't have that issue on relatively thin moto tires with a centered contact patch, but maybe those krazy darksiders should take note.

 

[art miller]

Coming in a little late here. I have been using Ride-On for some time now. I used it in three Michelin PR2 rear tires and now in the Bridgestone OEM rear tire on my 14ES. I have never had a balance problem and it does not have any negative affect on the rim or tire. It can be washed off with water. I use dyna beads in my front tires and again never had any balance issues. With dyna beads it is important you not get any moisture in the inner portion of the tire!! I've read the pros and cons on this and other forums relative to both products. If you have not tried it I see no benefit in making negative comments.

 

[Jer]

Coming in a little late here. I have been using Ride-On for some time now. I used it in three Michelin PR2 rear tires and now in the Bridgestone OEM rear tire on my 14ES. I have never had a balance problem and it does not have any negative affect on the rim or tire. It can be washed off with water. I use dyna beads in my front tires and again never had any balance issues. With dyna beads it is important you not get any moisture in the inner portion of the tire!! I've read the pros and cons on this and other forums relative to both products. If you have not tried it I see no benefit in making negative comments.

I was going to try the beads, but according to Ray of La Pine fame the beads would not go through the smaller 90 degree valve stems I have installed. I am going to pull the front tire and have it checked,but do you think the size of the valve stem would hinder installing the Ride-On?

 

[NMRoadRunner]

So you bought a motorcycle from them and they then charged you $110 to mount and balance tires you didn't purchase from them? They would be dead to me from now on. They punished you for buying your own tires is what they did, and they would never see anymore of my money! I buy tires online, but mount and balance them myself because of this very reason. Screw them.

 

[07FJRVegas]

While I can appreciate the dealer didn't sell you the tires, this business's stance on re-charging you to check the tire balance is unreasonable. If they pull the wheel(s) and check the balance, and find that they didn't balance it correctly or the tire isn't seated properly, then there should be no charge. If they pull the wheel(s) and find that the tire is defective and needs to be replaced, then I can see them wanting to charge an additional fee. Terrible service in my view and not a place I would want to deal.

 

[Jer]

While I can appreciate the dealer didn't sell you the tires, this business's stance on re-charging you to check the tire balance is unreasonable. If they pull the wheel(s) and check the balance, and find that they didn't balance it correctly or the tire isn't seated properly, then there should be no charge. If they pull the wheel(s) and find that the tire is defective and needs to be replaced, then I can see them wanting to charge an additional fee. Terrible service in my view and not a place I would want to deal.

They lost my business at that time. I was leaving on a 2000 mile trip the next day and had to put up with this annnoying vibration at speeds above 60. I stopped at fairly new motorcycle business that sells mainly used bikes and some new offroad bikes and accessories. They said if I brought the wheels in they would mount and balance them for $26 per tire. I would rather give my money to a small independent business rather than the big conglomerate anyhow.

So you bought a motorcycle from them and they then charged you $110 to mount and balance tires you didn't purchase from them? They would be dead to me from now on. They punished you for buying your own tires is what they did, and they would never see anymore of my money! I buy tires online, but mount and balance them myself because of this very reason. Screw them.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[FJRay]

Coming in a little late here. I have been using Ride-On for some time now. I used it in three Michelin PR2 rear tires and now in the Bridgestone OEM rear tire on my 14ES. I have never had a balance problem and it does not have any negative affect on the rim or tire. It can be washed off with water. I use dyna beads in my front tires and again never had any balance issues. With dyna beads it is important you not get any moisture in the inner portion of the tire!! I've read the pros and cons on this and other forums relative to both products. If you have not tried it I see no benefit in making negative comments.

I was going to try the beads, but according to Ray of La Pine fame the beads would not go through the smaller 90 degree valve stems I have installed. I am going to pull the front tire and have it checked,but do you think the size of the valve stem would hinder installing the Ride-On?

You can install the beads with the wheel on the bike. Let the air out and break the bead on one side using a big C-clamp and using the bottle and hose that comes with the beads put them in the tire. Make sure you don't get any in the sealing area and re-inflate the tire. Done deal.