Turn & Hazard fuse failure

[T120TT]

Hello everyone,

I got frustrated and set the FJR aside. Took a European vacation and am just now getting back to the FJR. I installed a new battery but still have the fuse blowing problem. Apparently not self healing. LOL. However, this time in addition to blowing the turn signal fuse, the gauge lights don't light and the starter button doesn't work and the horns don't work. The paddle shift works. This additional problem briefly manifested itself at the same time as the turn signal/emergency flasher problem, but didn't reappear until now. So, blowing the turn signal fuse is constant whenever attempting to use either the flasher or signal. However, there is obviously a greater intermittent problem that I thought was some sort of anomaly that hadn't reappeared until now. Obviously, the blown turn signal fuse problem is somehow related to the gauges, horn and starter not working. It's truly bizarre. When I turn the ignition on, I can hear the shifter kick in with a click and the paddle shift works... but nothing else.

Anyone have any ideas other than something illegal?

It has had all the factory updates, including new ECM altitude fix, new ignition switch and the factory spider jumper addition.

 

[mcatrophy]

Whatever the cause, it's not a single fault. Right from the start, the fact that either turn signal being switched on causes the fuse to blow means that there is more than one wrong connection. Now there are more symptoms.

This is sounding more and more like something is in there eating through your loom. Mice and other rodents do like the taste of wire insulation.

My suggestion is that you need to visually inspect the loom in the front area of the bike, you may well have to take the side and front fairing panels off to get to it all.

 

[T120TT]

All the plastic is off. Everything looks normal. No rodents. This problem began last summer. I thought I'd try the Forum on more time before reluctantly taking it to a shop.

Thanks for your input.

 

[RichDoyle]

I once accidentally diagnosed a problem like this with my Honda SL350. Every so often the fuse (only one) for the bike would blow and the bike would die. Once it died at a point where I had no spare fuses. Searching the roadside auto parts pile along the curb, I found a bit of wire and stuffed it into the fuse holder. The next day both of my brake light switches had melted.

Aha! Says I. It turned out that the insulation of the hot wire had worn through, due to vibration, where it ran through a channel built into the rear fender. If I happened to hit the brakes when the bare metal was grounded, dead bike ensued. This exposed bit of wire was not visible. Problem solved, albeit at the expense of replacing the two switches, the wire, and, of course the fuse.

Moral: The faulty wiring may be where it's not visible.

 

[wfooshee]

Those additional symptoms do sound like a ground spider issue, but could just as easily be another wiring issue. But ground spiders, while they cause weirdnesses like you mentioned, do NOT blow fuses.

 

[RichDoyle]

Those additional symptoms do sound like a ground spider issue, but could just as easily be another wiring issue. But ground spiders, while they cause weirdnesses like you mentioned, do NOT blow fuses.

If you're referring to my post, it was the hot wire that caused the problem. Not the ground wire.

 

[T120TT]

Update:

I discovered an unplugged connection that accounted for the gauge, starter and horn not working. However, the turn and hazard signal blowing the 10 amp fuse remains. That is the extent of the problem at this point.

 

[T120TT]

I've decided to finally take it to a shop. I'll post what they find.

 

[wfooshee]

Those additional symptoms do sound like a ground spider issue, but could just as easily be another wiring issue. But ground spiders, while they cause weirdnesses like you mentioned, do NOT blow fuses.

If you're referring to my post, it was the hot wire that caused the problem. Not the ground wire.

No, I was referring to TT's gauges, horn, etc.

 

[audiowize]

The real clue here is that turn signals in either direction cause this problem. This would suggest that you could narrow your search down to the wiring between the handlebar control and the battery.

The other convenient piece of information is that the fuse is fat and happy until you hit the switch to turn the blinker on, which tells us that the wiring up to the flasher relay is fine.

What I would do is to pull the flasher unit and all the turn signal bulbs, then check the DC resistance to the chassis of the 3 pins of each bulb socket. The shell should show 0 Ohms, the other two should show "OL", and likely will. Next, flip the blinker switch one way and check the DC resistance to ground again. If you find that you suddenly have a 0 where you had "OL" before, have someone hold the meter probes in position, then grab a stick and start smooshing around on the wiring harness until the 0 goes away, then you know where to look in your loom.

 

[T120TT]

The local shop doesn't have room for my bike until next week, so I'll have time to try it. Thanks.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Suggest you take the inner fairing panels off, check the connectors for the front turn signals...... they are not waterproof, and may have some nice copper oxide green on them. If really bad, could cause the fuse to blow?

 

[T120TT]

Plastic and signals already removed. Thanks anyway.

 

[wfooshee]

mcatrophy drew a circuit diagram for the turn signals / hazard lights, but I'm adding to that here, with a diagram showing EVERYTHING that the hazard fuse feeds, which includes the front marker lights at the front, and the tail lights and tag light at the rear. I also showed where in the circuit the connectors exist between the main wiring harness and the front cowl wiring harness. The main harness is on the bike itself, the looms running under the tank and seat along the frame, along with the fuse box and the battery. The front cowl harness connects the relays, instrument panel, headlights, and so on. There are several connectors between the two harnesses, and the two involved here are connector 3 and connector 5. I couldn't begin to tell you where they are, but connector 3 has six wires, and connector 5 has nine wires plus an empty position.

Whatever is happening does not involve the Blue/Red wires, because those lamps are on all the time, and not blowing the fuse. The fuse blows with the hazard or either turn signal, which involves both the dark green and the chocolate wires. I know I'm going over stuff we've been over before, but putting it all back in this post means you won't have to go looking for it. Anyway, there is a place somewhere where the chocolate and dark green wires are touching each other, and at least one of them is touching ground as well (although whatever is pinching them or piercing them probably has them both grounded.) It's even possible that wherever they touch each other is not the same place one of them is grounded. If you find one of them grounded and fix it, then both sides work with either turn signal, then you know the two wires are still touching each other somewhere. If you find and fix a place where they touch each other but the fuse still blows with the hazard or one side of the turn signal, then you know which wire is grounded somewhere.

The schematic doesn't tell you how long any of the wires are. Those short lines from connector 3 to the rear turn signal lamps are actually running the full length of the bike. A quick test would be to find that connector and disconnect it, then see if the front signals work by themselves without blowing the fuse. If so, then your problem is between that connector and the back of the bike, perhaps even in that connector. If the fuse still blows with that connector unplugged, then the problem is in the front cowl.

BTW, yes, I know the front lights and front signals are dual-filament bulbs, not separate bulbs.

Just go with it. Also, I left out the instrument panel indicators. If something's wrong up there, it's gonna be expensive! Still, find and follow the wires to the back of the panel if you have to. I'd be flabbergasted if it was inside the panel assembly.

EDIT - It occurs to me that I didn't even look at what else goes through that connector 3 before I said unplug it and try.There's a wire that's part of the starter interlock relay, so the bike might not crank with that connector loose. It should turn on, though, and enable the signals, anyway.

 

[T120TT]

This is great. The fuse still blows with the rears disconnected, so I'm sure the problem is in the front. I'll check it out further. It's got to be something! Thanks.

 

[wfooshee]

Well, yuck. Getting into the front is more difficult, and you may have to go as far as actually removing the front cowl assembly (headlights and stuff.)

 

[T120TT]

I've already done all that. The bike is completely naked.

 

[wfooshee]

OK.......

Carefully examine that 6-wire connector that passes the chocolate and dark green wires to the rear turn signals. One row of that connector has chocolate, dark green, and black. Also a black with white stripe in the other row. That black wire and the black/white wire are grounds. Make sure they don't have loose strands sticking out and shorting across the other wires. Exactly where that connector is I couldn't tell you, but you say your disconnected it and it made no difference. If a ground wire is shorted inside the connector on the front cowl harness side, you'd have exactly the problem you describe. Come to think of it, the blue/green wire is also a ground when the sidestand is down. That's three possible ground shorts in that connector!

Assuming the connector is OK, my next thing to try: remove the bulbs from the rear turn signals, if they're not already out. With the fairings off, the front signals are already missing. Disconnect both the hazard switch and the turn signal switch. Unplug the connector at the meter panel. At that point, All you have of the turn signal / hazard light system is wires not connected to anything. Use an ohmmeter and check continuity to ground at the chocolate and dark green wires in the connectors that went to the switches. The ohmmeter shouldn't even budge from infinity.

If it does, you have a physically shorted wire or two somewhere in the harness. The short just has to be found by following the wires through the bike.

If it doesn't move, then it's not a wiring problem, but an issue with something that got unplugged. The rest of the post proceeds from step to step on the assumption that no short is detected at each step.

Plug one of the switches back in and check the wires for continuity to ground at the other switch. If it shorts, the connected switch is bad somehow. (How a ground gets into a switch I couldn't tell you, unless one of its terminal is just laying on something.)

Moving on, unplug that switch and plug in the other, and repeat the check.

Next, both switches unplugged, reconnect the meter and try the wires at the switch.

If we got this far without finding a short, then I have no explanation. This process will check the wires themselves, and each device that gets connected to them.

 

[T120TT]

Thanks again. I'll try to get to it this weekend.

 

[dcarver]

Mr. T120TT has even more patience than me in finding the root cause problem!

Be methodical my friend. Take notes. And Pictures.

You will find the problem!