2009 K1300S

[El Toro]

I just went over to the corporate forum www.bmwxplor.com and did a search for final drive failure among the K bikes. Again, a few hits, mostly discussion about other people rather than first hand experience. Reference made to the BMW MOA forum, www.bmwmoa.org, so I checked there too. Again, there are anecdotes about others but I didn't run across the issue going back through posts... One guy's drive line disintegrated, but the bike had 143000 miles on it and it was kinda old. Another guy thought his drive line spines were wearing funny when he lubed them, so he bought a 1996 vintage drive shaft from a bike being parted out and he wanted help regarding installation details since his bike was an ABS version and the spare drive shaft was from a non-ABS bike.

I guess Iggy was right... This was probably not a good forum to bring up a discussion of whether or not the new K1300S would be a good bike to consider. I guess there's value in multiple perspectives though.

If you're riding a bike and the final drive fails and strands you, I'll bet you're not going to be too forgiving of the marque and its reliability. There appear to be a numerically large number of K1200LT/LTC bikes with drive line failures, and as BMW's luxury flagship, this has to hurt them.... perhaps more than they've realized.

 

[Warchild]

HA!! Looking at that old AdvRider thread from last year's Butt.... remember these splendid photos?

BMW Final Drive failures are a hot topic.... :lol:

The infamous Rob Nye "Spaceship" R1200RT prepped by Max BMW... final drive image enhanced by AdvRider members.... :lol:

His brand-new, 2007 broke-dick beemer failed within ~3000 miles of the Start Line... he had about 14K on the odometer, thereabouts....

 

[mmonroe]

Some thoughts....

I understand the final drive issues, however, I am hoping to gather overall impressions on the bikes and their overall reliability and overall functionality. It seems that folks are having other problems besides the final drive - some significant items such as many replaced transmissions, fuel injection issues, etc.

I have e-mailed a few folks on the BMW lists with these regards and in addition to having the problems, they feel like they are not being treated well by their dealers and BMW with regards to getting the issues solved.

My purpose on this e-mail was to try to determine if you guys are seeing any of this with your BMW's or your friends BMW or are these cases actually a rarity. It does seem like most of the complaints are with the 2005 and 2006 bikes but I am having a tough time determining if the 2008's (and hense the 2009) are still having issues.

Unless a person has money to burn as an experiement, which I dont, it seems like buying a new BMW and especially the K1200S or K1300GT is a gamble with the bike, dealer support and BMW.

Random thoughts...

Mark

 

[coldtrail]

One other issue with BMW motorcycles that hasn't been mentioned, at least I didn't see it here, The dealer network is sparse at best. Finding a dealer is a major hassle for a lot of owners of the marque and traveling a hundred miles or more from home base to find one isn't uncommon. I love my LT but I do all my own servicing. It ain't hard just requires some reading and tools. If it breaks then it's an 80 mile transport from home to the shop. Just hope it never breaks on the road. No problems to date and it's ten years old with just 42k on the clock.

 

[teerex51]

<....> It seems that folks are having other problems besides the final drive - some significant items such as many replaced transmissions, fuel injection issues, etc. <....>

These are most definitely frequent issues withe the 2005+ K-series.

Truth be told, most of the problems affected the early production bikes.

A riding buddy of mine who bought a 2005 K-S had the following problems:

- 3 trannies replaced under warranty

- 6 new software releases for his ECU

- several sets of mirror-mounted turn indicators cracked from vibrations

Since he's a glutton for punishment, he's traded in his 2005 for a 2007.

His second bike seems to've had a relatively uneventful life, OTOH he does not ride more than a few thousand miles a year.

I've tried both his K-Ss and my impressions are as follows:

- erratic idle; lack of torque at low revs, gigantic pull at higher revs

- lack of feedback from front

- uncomfortable riding position for long rides. Not an ST bike at all. Let alone an LD.

- good to excellent road holding

- quality of materials and finish: fair to middling. Yet you pay top dollar for the privilege.

- clunky tranny

Check out the K1300S in action and this video of the new K1300GT.

An FJR can do the same without so much drama and having to drop gears all the time...

Stef

 

[UFO]

Regardless of everything that's been posted here (and elsewhere)...based on what I see about the new K1300S and the options available (on paper), I really, really like it. :dribble:

That being said, it's probably not in my cards until next year maybe. With all the shit going down right now, and the fact I bought a new car this spring, I need to chill out for a bit. :glare: While doing so I can do some research on K13S teething problems...and maybe Yamaha will update the FJR.

 

[bmwhd]

In addition to the EWS and final drive ticking-time bombs on most new BMW, the other reason I'm done with them for the time being is the dealer network. I've had bad experiences with both here in the Dallas area and won't go back but the real problem for me is the scarcity of dealers outside of major cities.

 

[Tbird]

In addition to the EWS and final drive ticking-time bombs on most new BMW, the other reason I'm done with them for the time being is the dealer network. I've had bad experiences with both here in the Dallas area and won't go back but the real problem for me is the scarcity of dealers outside of major cities.

+1 for Todd's reasoning (Hi Todd...TBird from the LT forum).

Mark,

I ditched...I mean ditched...my LT, in favor of the FJR, ALMOST solely on the reasoning that I couldn't get my K1200LT worked on

without driving/riding/trailering over 4 hours ONE WAY to the nearest dealer. This was after my "local" dealer, 1 1/2 hours away

dropped BMW. You may have a nearby BMW MC shop near you...but if you LD travel and have a mechanical issue (I did) on the

road that requires a BMW shop...you are pretty much screwed.

Except for a couple major design problems...which BMW refuses to own up to and make right...their bikes are great. Just not for

me until they change the way they run Motorad USA.

 

[wfooshee]

Out of curiosity I went to the BMW motorcycles site and found "For the first time BMW is furnishing all their K bikes with the familiar universal-style switches and controls."

So no more goofy turn signals!

Maybe now that that engineering nightmare is over they can get back to the other stuff, like gears and shit.

 

[El Toro]

I suspect that resurrecting this will lead to another round of BMW bashing, but a lot of folks seem to enjoy that, and I used to enjoy it too, and I guess I still enjoy a good round of Harley hasseling, so ....

I had my K1200Rsport in for annual service at BMW of Daytona Beach today. They greeted me by name and took the bike in a half hour before the business is officially open. The service tech announced within 15 seconds that the mirrors were rattling and that they would be replaced on warranty. I had not noticed this as something worthy of whining about... but I got a free set of fairly expensive mirrors out of the deal.

Ignition switch antenna rings have failed on some BMW's, so they replaced it for free even though mine has not shown any signs of defect.

They did the steering damper recall service, with no prodding from me.

I had snapped off a turn signal last Thursday as I rolled the bike past a desk in my dyno lab. I told them about it on Friday, and on Monday they had the part and it was installed as part of the service at no charge (for either the part or the labor).

I had not planned on replacing tires, but on Friday morning I called them and told them I would need tires since a cord had just shown through on the rear. They had the 190/50 and 120/70 in the tire I wanted in stock, and they held them for my service appointment.

They went through both annual service and 6000 mile interval service, and the bike was ready 2 pm. I took it out for a test ride, and its still smooth as silk. Everything works well. The bike will pull your arms out of their sockets.

I like the professional approach that these guys take, and I would buy another bike from them without hesitation.

As for the dreaded final drive failures, it almost seems like there's a handful of them and they multiply on the internet and through anecdotal carping and whining by folks who haven't actually had the failure themselves. I checked the thread that was started last February on the BMW XPLOR forum, and there were about 5 posts, three of which were "great idea... hope I don't have one" and two which reported failures that had been previously reported.

I know that there have been highly visible failures in the IBA activities..... and there may be no excuse for these.... but the final drive failures in the general population of the bikes seems to be pretty doggone small. Lots of folks have been stranded by the EWS antenna ring issues, and they've not been bashful about reporting it. I can't imagine that they would be holding back if their final drives had failed and stranded them too.

 

[shokdimn]

They went through both annual service and 6000 mile interval service,

ET,
Out of curiosity, would you care to share an approximate figure for what one could expect to pay for both an annual and a 6K mile interval service on a 1200R? Also, how about separately? Just the service of course—no extra goodies included.

I like the looks of the new 1300S. Don’t know if I could make the transition to a BMW or not. However, I look forward to seeing one in person.

 

[El Toro]

Since there is overlap between the two types of service (annual vs. 6000 mile), they gave a combined price for the labor, which was $354.17. Parts were $62.30. After the 6000 mile service, the service interval extends to 12,000 miles... although I think plain old oil and filter changes continue on the 6000 mile schedule. They had two techs working on it, and I think they're labor rate is probably at least $75/hr, and maybe its $90. I dunno...but they do have to make some money to keep the doors open, so I don't begrudge it to them.

What was done included flushing the brake circuits and replacing fluid (this is done at year 1, and then again at year 3, 5, etc.), replacing oil, oil filter, final drive oil, associated gaskets. The most expensive item was the oil ... 4 qts for $21 (10W40 BMW non synthetic oil API service SG - I guess after 12000 miles they ask you if you want synthetic, but before 12000 miles they don't recommend synthetic). Next the oil filter at $16.18. Next the final drive oil at $13(probably the cost of a fresh bottle). Next the brake fluid at $4.88 (probably the cost of a fresh bottle).

There were a lot of other "checks" as part of the service, including fault checking and ecu stuff that requires their special diagnostics equipment.

They did not charge me for the silly "disposal of materials" or even for the "shop supplies" taxes that many dealers build in to every invoice.

They obviously gave me a detailed invoice... but they also gave me a detailed printed list of everything that had been done, and a few things that would be done at a later service. Plug replacement and valve adjustment, for example, is done at 30,000, so these appear on the check list sheet, but are slashed through with note for future reference, but not checked off.

FWIW, I thought real seriously about skipping Daytona this Fall and taking it to Nashville. I rolled into the dealer there about two weeks ago and asked for an appointment. This was the second time in as many attempts that they couldn't give me an appointment for several weeks, but just wanted me to "leave the bike and they'd get to it as they could." Although I know they are supposed to have a couple of certified BMW master mechanics on staff, they just don't inspire the confidence, and I decided to go with what I knew to be good based on past experience. I sure wasn't going over to the Knoxville dealer after the fiasco with the Moto Guzzi Norge last year.

 

[bmwhd]

As for the dreaded final drive failures, it almost seems like there's a handful of them and they multiply on the internet and through anecdotal carping and whining by folks who haven't actually had the failure themselves. I checked the thread that was started last February on the BMW XPLOR forum, and there were about 5 posts, three of which were "great idea... hope I don't have one" and two which reported failures that had been previously reported.
I know that there have been highly visible failures in the IBA activities..... and there may be no excuse for these.... but the final drive failures in the general population of the bikes seems to be pretty doggone small. Lots of folks have been stranded by the EWS antenna ring issues, and they've not been bashful about reporting it. I can't imagine that they would be holding back if their final drives had failed and stranded them too.

As tired as you seem to be of the "bashing", I getting awfully tired of the apologists. The final drive issue with BMWs is NOT internet rumor. I've experienced a failure and I've got numerous friends that have too. Vacations ruined, LD events ruined, and very expensive bikes sidelined by a very real problem that has NOTHING to do with mileage, age, service history (or lack thereof), pulling a trailer, riding style, or any of the other nonsense BMW spouts.

This very real issue has been ongoing for over 8 years and through at least two major and several minor re-designs and STILL BMW denies there's an issue. Totally unacceptable from a company that touts "ride the world" reliability and charges an enormous premium for same.

 

[El Toro]

As tired as you seem to be of the "bashing", I getting awfully tired of the apologists. The final drive issue with BMWs is NOT internet rumor. I've experienced a failure and I've got numerous friends that have too. Vacations ruined, LD events ruined, and very expensive bikes sidelined by a very real problem that has NOTHING to do with mileage, age, service history (or lack thereof), pulling a trailer, riding style, or any of the other nonsense BMW spouts.
This very real issue has been ongoing for over 8 years and through at least two major and several minor re-designs and STILL BMW denies there's an issue. Totally unacceptable from a company that touts "ride the world" reliability and charges an enormous premium for same.

Nah, I don't care about the bashing... If I did, I wouldn't have resurrected the thread. I've sort of come to realize that my own negative posts regarding H-D are of the same type, i.e., disbelief that any sane motorcyclist would consider the brand. I used to be pretty negative about BMW too, and test riding an 08 R1200RT just reinforced my negative feelings.

I do feel bad for the folks who have had final drive failures. I can understand why those folks are very negative about the brand. I'm not sure how BMW could go about making these people happy though, short of going out of business or giving them a new motorcycle. Its hard for folks from whom much is expected.

 

[Ignacio]

I do feel bad for the folks who have had final drive failures. I can understand why those folks are very negative about the brand. I'm not sure how BMW could go about making these people happy though, short of going out of business or giving them a new motorcycle. Its hard for folks from whom much is expected.

I'm not negative of the brand and don't think others are either. People are negative of BMW failure to actually fix the issue for owners. Nobody wants them them to go out of business, but instead find a way to tacitly acknowledge the issue, fix the issue, and move on....without what I know is a reality that you can't openly admit guilt.

Maybe something like Yamaha did with the Gen 1 where even those out of warranty with tickers are getting them fixed. BMW hasn't done anything like that and seemingly even pushes back on some people with full warranty....that and the Gen 2 bikes which are 100% tick free.

I grow increasingly pessimistic though for BMW as this problem has lasted much longer than even the excruciating amount of time before Gen 1 tick....and even after there's an admittance it's going to take years to heal those wounds.

Meanwhile, I encourage fellow IBR riders to stick with their late model BMW. They ride in superior engineering, comfort, and precision.....all the way until their FD fails and moves me one spot up the podium.

 

[El Toro]

I grow increasingly pessimistic though for BMW as this problem has lasted much longer than even the excruciating amount of time before Gen 1 tick....and even after there's an admittance it's going to take years to heal those wounds.

Its a tough problem. You know the ticking issue may be real, but there are far more people who worry about ticking than there are folks who own engines that actually tick.... and a lot of the ones whose engines tick but who don't play on the internet may not even know they have a problem during their ownership of the bike.

The FD failures (F'n Disasterous failures) leave no doubt in the mind of the owner, and reading the internet isn't a requisite to learning whether or not your bike is affected.

I think a part of this is based on the way BMW approaches warranty and service issues. In the owner's manual, they say that "if you have BMW do the service, we will be generous with you on warranty issues." At the same time, they don't make their parts microfiche or their service manuals available to the public. I think they assume that if a bike doesn't have a filled out maintenance section with BMW stamps at the appropriate intervals, then the bike was improperly maintained. Right or wrong, I think this is their starting assumption.

Meanwhile, I encourage fellow IBR riders to stick with their late model BMW. They ride in superior engineering, comfort, and precision.....all the way until their FD fails and moves me one spot up the podium.

I'm with you on that one. Heck... let folks ride what they want and let them learn the hard way. No good deed goes unpunished anyway, so any amount of explaining to folks on BMW's that they're asking for it in an IBA event is just wasted breath.

I think BMW has introduced too many new models in recent years to really keep up with any of it. They were blowing out the $10,799 msrp '07 650 Super Motos for $5999 earlier this week at BMW of Daytona Beach. Too many bikes. Too many new models. Too many angry past purchasers whose kool aid left a bitter taste. Sigh.....

We used to say that Moto Guzzi was the Harley Davidson of Italy. In that same sense, BMW is the Harley Davidson of Germany. Both Guzzi and BMW could probably learn something from Willie G and Co. about dealer networks and customer service.

 

[bmwhd]

... Nobody wants them them to go out of business, but instead find a way to tacitly acknowledge the issue, fix the issue, and move on....

BINGO!!!

Sadly, this will never happen. Just recall the non-issue that was surging on the 1150 oil heads - there was never an admission of the problem. They just finally fixed it with dual plugs under the guise of performance improvements.

The EVO drive was an attempt to do the same for the FD issues. Unfortunately it's a failure too.

 

[Wolfhound]

I guess I missed the bashing part but did see the reality part of BMWs . . . .There was 1 failure (second mechanical DNF in a rally this year for them) & 11 finishers at LOE for BMW. Also 1 DNF for FJR that needed the recall ECU.

 

[FJR1300KEN]

I didn't hear anyone mention that the BMW K1200R was the 2005 Motorcyclist Magazine motorcycle of the year.That had to be cause the final drive failed so many times(LOL).

ITS A CADILLAC WITH A ROCKET TIED TO IT. I'll run any stock Busa 0-120mph. Our times are something like 0-60 in 2.8 seconds. Sounds pretty slow in comparison to say----an F-18 Hornet. Sorry,couln't help it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tenchi]

So this is a relatively new thing, but the little key fob detector is a ring around the ignition. That has a tendency to fall off on the K series BMW's. They've switched the part number now, so I'm not sure it will impact the new K series.

I have friend with the 2k8 K1200R if you want to ask any specific questions.