AE Cornering Suggestions?

[bucky]

I have an 08 ae and read somewhere that with the electric shift three things happen when you shift:

1. electric clutch disengages

2. simultaneous to that either the spark stops and/or injectors stop (to cut engine power)

3. electric servo changes the gear

then the clutch engages and power is returned to the engine. all this happens without the rider even knowing because it happens so fast. that makes sense that the engine power is cut because you hear absolutely no increase in rpm even for a split second.

so bottom line is that backing off the throttle fully is not necessary nor good to smooth shifting as you want to match engine speed before after shifting.

 

[chicken strip]

I came from a Concours I. I actually crashed, not being able to control the uptake or lurch of the throttle. I got the same kinds of replies that you have recieved on the FJR forum. I am not able to late apex on the FJR. I have the 2006 and scared myself so bad, that it took quite a while to get some control back. I have to do the basic, slow, look, press. roll, on corners. The glitch or grab on the throttle has a nasty habit of standing one up in the corners and running a rider wide. I have to have an entry speed that allows constant roll on through the corner. If I roll off and have to apply any throttle, the lurch upsets my line and it can get dicey in a decreasing radius curve. I don't like it, but I am learning to deal with it. I am an MSF instructor and have ridden bikes all my life, and this is the hardest bike to ride I have ever encountered. It is Goldwing riding. Smooth is what counts. Set your line and roll on. I haven't added any of the expensive fixes listed on the board. But this is the only way I can control the bike.

 

[bikerkash]

The AE takes sometime to get use to and there have been many good suggestion given on this site. The best ones in my opinion are. Because there is no clutch, get use to making more use of the rear brake than you normaly would on a clutch bike. Unless you are in very tight corners try to use 3rd or 4th gear the bike has plenty of torque to pull these gears. Take some of the throttle spring tension by unhooking some of the throttle springs and keep the slack in the throttle to a minimum. Be careful to leave just enough spring tension to return the throttle when the bike is running.

When you are planning a tight parking lot turn keep it in 2nd gear. Also when you start out from a full stop try keeping your foot on the brake and bring the throttle up slightly, which will engage the clutch and your launch will be very smooth. When you are coming to a stop go to 3rd gear and towards the last few feet of your stop use the foot brake only to disengage the clutch this will keep the front end from diving. Hope this helps

 

[Scotty]

Great summary. I might add that in very tight situations using 3rd gear is an option. Nothing is going to break. This is the equivalent of the "friction zone" on the "A" model

 

[DagoFeejer]

Well it's getting better but only because it is more predictable now. I'm getting used to holding low in a corner and trail braking while rolling the throttle on out of it. The lurch is damn near a ledge, i.e. it seems as though there is a 'curb' and not a 'curve' in the power band while in gear. I can't duplicate it just rolling the throttle up in neutral, at least not on my bike. I don't like it either, but it is a tradeoff for the ease of flick shifting, which IMHO is great fun. I may do the spring mod to lessen the return, but it just seems as though there is a cam design error in the throttle tube...who knows, probably (obviously) not, but that is what it feels like. I'm still having fun and am thankful to everyone for all the suggestions.

Ride Safe,

Dago

 

[twodogs]

STOP, STOP, JUST STOP...

You're banging your head against a wall. It will never get better. You will never adequately adjust no matter how many technique massages you cobble tohgether. It will hurt you eventually.

GET A PCIII, install it and one of the maps and enjoy life. It's usually transformational.

Bill

 

[namelessnigel]

All the 'technique' in the world won't fix this problem on the 06. It's not you, it's the bike.

And it's both auto and manual clutch models 06.

So I'll say it again !

Go right ahead and get the PCIII, the throttle lurch on the 06 is a dog and the PCIII fixes it.

The G2 tube helps a little but you do need to remove most (not all) the cable slack otherwise the smaller radius section of the tube is already past by the time the cable is pulling at the throttle body.

Get the PCIII, load the map provided for the 06 model and you will forget about the problem. After a few rides you will even stop gritting your teeth through the twisties.

The PCIII is cheap and easy to install.

Cheers,

nameless

 

[dustyrains]

When you begin entering the corner and start backing off of the throttle, do not chop it completely. There's a fine line between having the trottle off (chopped), and having it on ever so slightly. It's something you will learn with practice on the AE. In time, you will be comming out of turns as smooth as butter.

I would add, in addition to not chopping the throttle all the way to off, use one or two fingers on the front brake while keeping throttle open. Takes practice to apply throttle and brake simultaneously, but can make for really smooth cornering.

 

[Ray]

Hello all,
I came from the ST1300 side of the street but really like the Yami AE. My only complaint thus far, and it might just be my riding style (20 years, all ruber side down so far) is that cornering on the AE is abrupt, not smooth. This is probably due to the abruptness of the throttle (I searched first...) but it is weird. It goes like this: I slow to corner, downshift (usually into second), and when I go to power out of the corner the throttle just comes on. Now usually I'd feather the clutch while powering out of the corner and it'd be smooth sailing, but this herkie-jerky-ness has got me somewhat unerved for the wet days. The bike has a G2 throttle tube on it and grip puppies already. Tips, pearls, pitfalls would be greatly appreciated. I'm thinking of getting a PCIII but will deter until I hear from the gang.

Ride safe and thanks again for reading and any suggestions you may have.

Dago

I usually don't respond to a lot of posts but I am stuck in a shit hotel in Brussels and bored so what the hell. I have been riding a motorcycle 35+ years and road racing for 2 and have never slipped the clutch in a corner. I strongly suggest you sign up for a trackday and get instruction on how to corner. Does the power first come on a little strong on the ae - yes - but it is nothing unmanageable or out of the ordinary. I can run with most fast guys on the corners on my AE on the twisty back roads and really don't have an issue. I took a track day 3 years ago on the AE and learned more thank the 35 years on the street in terms of proper cornering set up. Make sure you lower the air pressure to 33 as - I was running stock air pressure at mid ohio and ice skated all day. Must warn you - it is very addictive. After that day I bought a racing sv 650, got my race license and kissed my 0 credit card balance good bye. Awesome to drag a knee thru the turns with your best friend only 3 feet beside you at 100 + mph.

 

[Fred W]

Let me preface this by saying I am NOT an "expert" rider.

I think that there are some very good points being thrown out here (amongst the noise).

One should never be feathering a clutch at anything above parking lot speeds. Period

Chopping the throttle when coming into a corner on an FI bike is completely different than on a carby bike, especially one with CV carbs. You might have also noticed that you get a whole lot more "engine braking" on FI bikes than on carby engines. The reason the difference is so abrupt is that FI bikes deliver almost no fuel (in stock configuration) during over-run. This is to reduce emissions (at idle) and to keep the cat healthy. You can soften the off to on throttle response with a PCIII by adding a butt load of fuel at the lowest throttle angles.

This is not really an AE issue per se, except in the cases where you actually have to shift mid-corner. In that case, the loss of total control of the clutch might be an issue. I would just try not to be in that position on either an A or AE, but obviously an A has more options to work around it. If you come into the corner in the right gear you should be able to power out with no shifting, at least until you get out of any serious leaning. OTOH, if you come into the corner at too high an rpm then you will risk having to shift at a bad time, while powering out. You are the master of your own destiny.

1st gen bikes are clearly superior to 2nd gens.

[Gump]...and that's all I have to say about that. [/Gump]

 

[mcatrophy]

... This is not really an AE issue per se, except in the cases where you actually have to shift mid-corner. In that case, the loss of total control of the clutch might be an issue. ...

While shifting in a corner is usually considered "wrong", unless you are at 100% it is certainly possible and can be safe.

With a clutch levered bike, you need to be smooth, the requirement being no sudden changes in rear wheel torque that would unsettle the bike.

With the YCCS system, Yamaha was well aware of the potential for disaster, and programmed clutch engagement accordingly. As a result, I find that I change in a corner more often than I ever did on my Trophy, even though Trophy could give a very smooth change (as you have probably discovered, Fred) with its nice clutch and throttle action and old-fashioned carbs.

Provided you give the FJR AS[AE]'s throttle the appropriate dip or blip, there is no hint of drama. The way the clutch engages relatively slowly if the revs are wrong for the next gear is better controlled than I could do with a lever, and it gets it right every time.

More than once I've judged a tight and slippery corner wrong (I'm no expert either), found myself slowing well into the corner, and changing down mid-corner without any drama. That also goes for accelerating round a long corner - changing up is even easier. Unless you are full on, you don't need to change the throttle setting, just flick the switch. Yes, you can feel the bike's line change a bit, but it's in no way worrying, even on a slippery road.

Of course, particularly in a low gear, you need to be very careful twisting the throttle because of its abrupt behaviour, but that's a generic early Gen II characteristic, applies to both manual and electric changes equally.

I'm not advocating changing gear while scraping pegs or riding on ice (I don't do either of these, but my chicken strips do get down to a quarter inch). But in normal (sensible?) road riding, YCCS makes it easy to change gear without dirtying your underpants or worse.

Oh, yes, my clutch soak made quite an improvement in the YCCS clutch action.

Overall, I would prefer to have a fully functioning hand and a manual clutch, but with a little adaption I find in most riding there is no disadvantage, and often an advantage.

As for

... 1st gen bikes are clearly superior to 2nd gens.

Gen Is don't have YCCS. Because of my inconveniently stupid left little finger, a Gen I is useless for me. Yes, I'm old and ever more decrepit, BUT I'M STILL RIDING :yahoo: .

So, which is "superior"?

 

[Fred W]

I've been schooled...

Superior is in the eye of the beerholder.

 

[mcatrophy]

Superior is in the eye of the beerholder.

:drinks:

 

[ugar-6]

I recently did my first run up in the mountains on the FJR a couple of weeks back and it didn't take long to start dragging hard parts. I have pretty much been on sportbikes only for the best part of a decade and now I'm on a sports tourer with OEM tires, BIG difference. You have to take a more gradual line than late braking and snapping it over. What worked best for me is to use the slow in, fast out approach instead of balls out in, balls out out. On my last run, I got behind a sportbike carrying good speed and dragging knee in most corners but he still couldn't walk on me. He'd gap just a little and then I'd pull him back as soon as he got behind a car for even a couple of seconds. The FJR has so much torque you can gain time on the exit where you may lose a little going in. In the hills, you should be able to keep it in second or third for most of the run except maybe on long straights. I have an 08 where they addressed some of the throttle issues so I don't know if this makes a big difference or not. I'm still healing from a broken foot too so I primarily used the hand shifter up there with no problem. Hope this helps.

 

[FargoFeej]

What I did to control the AE on slow speed u-turns, parking lot turns, cones etc:

To control the surging on opening the throttle I installed a PC-III with a smoothness map, and did the one-turn throttle spring release. I used a quality bicycle handlebar tape to build up the grips to an easier-to-hold size. All this helped for street and highway cruising, but it did not help slow speed maneuvers at all.

The problem is this--the AE engages its clutch at some RPM, on my bike about 1700 RPM. It also DISengages the clutch at some RPM when slowing or braking. When trying to modulate very slow speeds with the rear brake, even if the throttle is open a bit, it is too easy to fall to the "disengage RPM". This is just like pulling the clutch all the way in during a U-turn at 5 mph. The bike is leaned for the turn, and suddenly there is no power to the rear wheel. Then it's either foot down or bike down, or add throttle, and that is all to easy to overdo, leading to a surge and a botched U-turn or 90 degree turn or trip through the cones. Um, I suppose I should mention that this is important to me because I will be taking my Alt MOST test soon on the AE so I gotta get these right.

So, I used the procedure described in the manual (and here: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10806) to lower the clutch engagement RPM. I adjusted the setting downward 3 times. I really do not see much difference in the clutch engagement RPM, I think it's still between 1500-1600. There is certainly not a change of 100-150 RPM per step, not even close. But, the disengagement point has fallen A LOT. This allows the bike to slow down to about 5 mph and the clutch does not disengage, the bike just pokes along at that speed. The clutch does not engage at idle, which is just over 1000, but when slowed down to 5 in 1st gear it will stay engaged until I apply enough brake to slow just a little more. I warm the bike well before riding to get the idle speed down to 1050 and the bike has never engaged its clutch unexpectedly once it has warmed up.

With the clutch engaged at 5 mph it is easy to make U-turns, slow speed swerves such as cones, and 90 degree turns at very low speed. It is like an automatic transmission in a car with your foot off the accelerator pedal. Just creeping along. Want to stop or disengage the clutch? Just a little rear brake does it. I have put 400+ miles on my '07 since I did this, and 2/3 of the time I have been practicing slow speed maneuvers in preparation for the test. So far no drama, no bike taking off on its own. Rather, slow speed maneuvers are much easier and I can do U-turns and Figure 8s until I get dizzy or the bike gets so hot that I need to put on some highway miles. Function of the Feej at other than very low speed has not changed at all, still great after the previous changes.

YMMV, but this seems to have helped me control my FJR AE and ended the great frustration with very slow speed operation. I am 100% happy with my choice of the AE now. (And I no longer feel inclined to follow RH's friendly and helpful advice to AE owners, found here: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...t&p=665122).

 

[Scotty]

For the non technical in slow speed maneuvers in parking lots etc, simply use 2nd or 3rd gear and put your butt to the outside of the turn. Of course on fast corners put your butt to the inside. No shame if your are in a dirt bumpy parking lot or doing a u-turn on a gravel road to go to third and let the auto clutch do a bit of slipping. My inseam is 29".

 

[DagoFeejer]

Not to revive the thread, I know...die cornering post!, but finally installed my PCIII and throttle lurch is history. Throttle roll-ons are buttery smooth now and cornering has stopped being the challenge that it was. I'd strongly suggest the purchase of a PCIII for any throttle lurch problems, especially in the '06. Take care everyone and thanks for all the help on this, my only issue, with the Feej.

Ride Safe,

D