FJR pilot pilots

[Daniel78362]

Hey and a Happy New Year to all you FJR Pilots, I'm looking for some advise, This year I'm hell bent on getting a private pilots license. I've noticed that there are a few aircraft pilots on this forum. I've researched the process, but what I'm looking for is any cost saving advise. Being a working class putz I'm looking for ways to shave off some of that 8 to 9 grand I'm going to have to bleed out. I'd sell my soul to the Devil but she said I already owe her for buying "that damn bike in the first place". Feel free to PM me on this subject. To all Be Good, Be Safe.

 

[CAJW]

Aviation is a sickness that only money will cure. Be careful what you ask for, but having said that, try finding a flight school that offers a discount for block time. Meaning, a discount off the hourly rate if you put down money up front, but be careful. Placing funds in some else's account who could fold up shop tomorrow is scary so do your homework and find out from independent sources how they run their school, how long in business, etc.... Personally my comfort level was $1,000 down max and I'd refresh that amount when funds got low. Too many horror stories of guys putting down the entire amount (often borrowed funds) only to find the doors chained up and all the windows painted over before they got a many hours under their belt. Pursue your passion in whatever you want, mine was helicopters so I trained soley in fling wings, airplane time doesn't mean diddly to a rotor wing Chief Pilot. I found the only way I could afford my addiction was to get paid for it and so becoming a CFI was the route I took. PM for more discouraging information

and good luck!

 

[Richouse]

It has been a while since I have done any primary flight instructing. I know that it is much more now than it use to be. Like was said buying a block of time will usually get you a cheaper rate on the aircraft. Mabie you have a friend that is a flight instructor that might give you a break on his fee. I'm not sure how far you want to go with it but buying a small plane might be an option for you. A Cessna 150/152 for example, you might be able to find an older one in this economy for < $20K. Rent it back to the flight school and it will pay for itself. then you can fly it for just the cost of gas and instructor fee. Unfortunately there is not many ways to cut corners in this business.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask. Like I said it has been years since I have done any primary flight instructing but I'll help you if I can.

 

[Old Michael]

... Pursue your passion in whatever you want, mine was helicopters so I trained soley in fling wings, airplane time doesn't mean diddly to a rotor wing Chief Pilot. I found the only way I could afford my addiction was to get paid for it and so becoming a CFI was the route I took....

John, I think I'm ready to solo.

I've watched this twice now....

 

[wnyfjr]

Advice so far is all excellent. Another thing I'd put out there is that the more often you can fly, the less time will be spent in each lesson re-mastering the things from the last lesson. I stretched my primary instruction out over a year (money got tight there in the middle) and I think in the long run it cost me more in "review/relearn" time than if I had flown three times a week consistently. Another tip I would offer is to make sure you find a flight instructor that you 'click' with. I had an instructor who was obviously building his time toward the airline job he ultimately wanted and I felt more like a cog on an assembly line than someone he was truly eager to be teaching. Don't be afraid to take a few lessons from different instructors at whatever FBO you end up with (or maybe try a few different flight schools as well, if you have a selection in your area).

It might not be an option, but you might also consider going through one of those places that trains you full-time for maybe a month and you fly almost every day, with ground school too. Sort of like a bootcamp. Not sure how much those sort of things run, and there are other considerations like time off from work and time away from family, but it might be something to explore.

Here's the bottom line though; Even though current household economics have kept me grounded for the past 7 years, I have never regretted a single penny spent on getting my private pilot license. In fact, I never even bothered to total up the receipts. It doesn't matter to me what I paid for it. The first time I flew as a certificated Private Pilot, I was grinning like an idiot the entire flight (sort of like when I'm on the FJR these days!). Some of the best money I ever spent. Someday when the kids' college tuition is all paid off and the mortgage is done, I hope I can knock off the rust and get back up there. The wife has even mentioned building one of our own some day and living at a fly-in community...have I mentioned I LOVE my wife??

 

[2fjr]

Daniel,

You don't say why you wish to fly. Just for the challenge, to go somewhere, commercial use, or maybe have not really thought that far yet. If you want to keep cost down, and really learn to fly for fun, consider gliders, or soaring. I'm a glider pilot, although currently inactive. This is a real pilot license isssued by the FAA, just limited by type to gliders. Just as a single engine land licence is limited to type. You might look up a local glider field and go for a ride to try it. That's what I did back in the early 80's, and the first time I gained altitude in a plane with no engine, I was was hopelessly hooked. I often think of motorcycling as low level flying.

There are numerous commercial and club organizations scattered around the country. I joined a club where I flew with a club instructor to license. The club owns several ships that are shared by the membership. It's a great way to learn to fly. Good place to check for more info........ https://www.ssa.org/

Whatever you decide to do, learning to fly is a very satisfying and challenging thing. Have fun!

edited to add: I have been a lifelong motorcylist. The primary years I flew were when my kids were younger. I took it up partially to replace the fun I had riding long distances on the bike when being gone for a week or two alone was not a popular idea. When the kids got older and I got back into doing distances again, I found that it cut into flying so much that one or the other had to go. You must fly frequently to be a safe and competant pilot, and for now I am having more fun on the bike, so I hung it for the time being.

 

[CAJW]

... Pursue your passion in whatever you want, mine was helicopters so I trained soley in fling wings, airplane time doesn't mean diddly to a rotor wing Chief Pilot. I found the only way I could afford my addiction was to get paid for it and so becoming a CFI was the route I took....

John, I think I'm ready to solo.

I've watched this twice now....

OM,

Well... I think you're over qualified according to this video, you already play with cads, drink beer and don't wear gay shoes like the bloke in the video. Yep, I think you ought to set your sights on a 747, Airbus or something more challenging like the Space Shuttle ( might have to get one out of mothballs) where go-arounds are not an option.

 

[majicmaker]

I got my A&P Licenses at 18. Yeah! I was a child bride. The way I got some cheap flight hours in was by donating some free maintenance time turning wrenches at the flight school in exchange for some flight time. It worked out great. It was $24 an hour including instructor in a Piper Cherokee at La Guardia Airport in Queens NY. This was 1973. Boy have the prices changed since then.

Come to find out that my life long love of airplanes wasn't necessarily being in the air. It didn't make my private parts tingle like fixing a broken airplane and watching it fly away did. Had a great time though. Ahhhhh the Memories!!

 

[CAJW]

I forgot to mention, treat the mechanics like they have your life in their hands....

Just don't buy them a beer until they clock out....

 

[majicmaker]

Because they do!! )

 

[SkooterG]

Because they do!! )

But you can't wear a helmet without breaking it!!!

:fuck:

 

[SacramentoMike]

Simply join the Air Force. They'll train you free.

I hear some flight schools offer half price training, too. They just don't teach landing. Good luck.

 

[JR'SFJR]

Lots of good info so far. I sold a motorcycle during my college years in the 60's to start flying. Go figure!!! Went through all the ratings, did some instructing and still fly an hour or two a month, but don't bother to keep my instrument current with all our good weather. I agree about not giving a flight school much money ahead unless you are very sure they will be around, since they tend to disappear. One airport I fly out of lets me pay as I go, but the other wants a least $500 on the account. I carry $1,000,000 renters liability insurance and some hull insurance that costs about $500 yr. Most FBO's have insurance, but it's more for them then the renter.

I would take lessons first to see if it is something you really want to do? Then, as someone mentioned, you might want to consider purchasing a Cessna 150 or Piper Cherokee 140. However, if mechanical problems occur, it can get expensive quickly. Annual inspections can be costly. Outside aircraft tie downs are usually inexpensive, but hangers usually aren't, running $300-400 a month here. Another option can be flying clubs, but not all are interested in having student pilots. I was in a flying club up north and here for many years, but the more people involved can mean more problems. I forget, but unless you fly over 50-100 hourss a year, the payoff to own just isn't there. Do you have an Experimental Aircraft Ass.(EAA) on the field, which can provide many valuable contacts? For the amount I fly, I just rent. Go on line, book it, and fly. What I really miss at my age are the small grass strips I learned to fly out of with little traffic, but few remain. I fly out of busy student training airports, with a control tower, parallel runways, and 200,000 operations a year.

 

[JR'SFJR]

I don't know what your medical situation is, but you will need a flight medical. It seldom happens, but sometimes pilots get restrictions or can't get a medical because of health problems or medications. More recently, I try to go to an FAA Avitation Medical Examiner(AME) that's also a pilot and maybe a little more understanding? Google FAA AME's to see who's available and ask around.

Also, some AME's doctor's will do a consultation first (added fee) to go over medical issues first to see if there are any problems with passing. The deal is, if we have our medical pulled, then we can't even fly the new Light Sport Aircraft(LSA) catagory that only requires a drivers license. These aircraft must weight less than 1320 lbs., fly less than 120 knots...... A few small older aircraft qualify, but there are about 100 companies around the world now building these aircraft for $60g-150G. Many airports now have LSA for rent.

 

[majicmaker]

But you can't wear a helmet without breaking it!!!

:fuck:

Heeeyyyyyy!! It wasn't my fault! It just kept happening. I Swear!! Insert "Bite Me" emoticon (Here).

 

[Daniel78362]

Hey All, just want thank every one for all the great info............but that SacramentoMike, best advise ever. Must get his water from the river. 2fjr asked why I want to "fly". Well I have no deep philosophical reasons, no Icarus complex, just something I've always wanted. Would even consider Gliders, but the Coastal Plains of South Texas aren't to conducive to gliders, would have to travel to the San Antonio Hiil country area, but still something to consider. Flying is along the lines of Bike/ bicycle riding, there just seems to be an undefinable sense for freedom that comes with riding. And of course there is the techical challenge. I've always bragged that "just show me where the key goes and can drive the damn thing" As a matter of fact back in the mid 80's I bought my first moto never having driven one in my life. What the hell I figured, can't be any different than riding a bicycle, just its got a motor, wacthed them do it all the time on ESPN.

At the time I was single and a very serious Cyclist (logged 200-250 miles/wk on average). Well one spring day I rode out to my barber's to get my hair cut when in conversation he mentioned that he was thinking of selling his Bike, a 79 Yamaha 750 Triple. I told him that I was looking for a Bike, asked how much and he said "I'll let it go for a $800.00". Wow, I just got my tax refund back, let me check it out. When we were done we out to the parking lot and looked over the bike. It was clean, very clean, with lots of good crome. I told him I'd buy it, " I'll come back tomorrow with the cash and settle up". Being that we had known each other for the past 6 years he said that if I wanted I could just ride it home. "Sure" he said, "take it home, come back tomorrow with the cash and I'll give you the Pink slip, I'll put your bicycle in the shop store room". "Well shit OK" I said so I climbed on (that's right in spandex riding shorts and cleated shoes) and sat there looking over the controls. With the bike running and my left hand on the clutch I said " Its been a while, front break" right?

"No" he said with a puzzled look, "clutch"

"That's right, that's right it's just been a while". With my right foot tapping the rear break, "shifter, 1 up 4 down" I said with authortiy.

"Rear break, left side shifter and it's 1 down with 5 up" he said with a look of genuine concern.

"That's right, that's right" before he said another word I pulled on the clutch, slammed it into 1st, gave it a little throttle, eased out the clutch and slowly rode off hoping to hell I didn't stall it. I took the back way home along the Santa Barbara foot hills (that's right SacramentoMike, the beautiful Santa Barbara foothills, no river bottom swamp lands) in an attempt to make as few complete stops as possible. I rode the whole way slow and easy, grinning ear to ear in part cause I did look like a damn fool riding that thing in full cycling apparel. Made it home safe and sound.

The next day when I went to settle up with my barber and pick up my bicycle he asked me how long I'd been riding. I avoided answering him until I got the pink slip in my hand. He asked one more time, how long have you been riding? Without skipping a beat I looked him in the eye and said well, what time is it?

"Son of a bitch" he said, "when I watched you ride off I started to get a bad feeling, promise me you'll take it easy and not kill yourself"

I promised him I would go easy and most of all "not kill myself". Rode home that day on my bicycle. True Story.

 

[PhilJet09]

If I were you, I'd find a flying club. From what I've seen, as a general rule, the instructors in clubs tend to be older people that just love teaching others their passion, not some kid just building time to move on. Take a few lessons with different instructors before you buy block time. Spend some time to just hang out and talk to as many people there as possible - instructors, students, other pilots, mechanics to get a feel for the environment. Make sure the primary focus is on safety.

As has already been said, in the end the cheapest way is to finish in the shortest amount of time, both flight time and days. The more you fly a week, the less you'll have to re-learn each lesson. That may not work for you though. Some people just like to take it slowly, nothing wrong with that. Also keep in mind that few people get their certificate in the minimum allowed flight time, it just depends on the student/instructor/weather/etc.

I learned to fly and maintain aircraft in college. I was a flight instructor for a few years, but my first real job was an AP/IA mechanic for a charter company. Not going the military route, it took a long time to build enough hours to meet insurance requirements for a decent flying job. Now I'm a corporate pilot flying all over the world.

I could go on for pages about learning to fly, but it's probably better to just answer specific questions you may have so feel free to PM me.

 

[FJR Flyer]

I'll second the flying club option. Typically, you'll find folks invested in the club, the airplanes and instructing and that makes it more enjoyable and affordable. If you can't find a club, definitely look for block time. I would try and stick with one instructor, if at all possible. Switching around only makes it a longer and more costly endeavor for you. But, if you and the instructor don't seem to be on the same wavelenght, don't waste time and switch.

Its been a long while since I got my ticket in '89. I remember buying 150 block time for $30/hour wet. I was in a partnership for a while and we had a Cherokee 140. That was a great time to have an airplane. Avgas was $2/gal and insurance was relatively cheap. Flew a lot in those days.

 

[Ed Sidders]

Check with your local Civil Air Patrol Squadron , Daughter got a Helluva Deal when She was in High School....