Going to the Dark Side

[JamesK]

I have now done about 1,500 miles on the Toyo 205/50 17 CT, doing a lot of varying types of twisty roads, testing it as slow-speed maneuvers, etc.

Basically, I have been trying to confirm for myself that running a CT on a longish trip would not only enable not have to change tires but also let me have enough fun in the twisties.

My findings thus far are very positive, I do worry though that this CT is likely going to last much fewer miles on my FJR than many other Darksiders have found, at least on the sides/edges

 

[JamesK]

Based on my recent experience with the new Road 5 tires, I would caution against using them on the FJR, especially if you like the twisties. The pics and linked video below are of my Road 5 rear at around 8,500 km (5,300 miles). Worth noting that in the nearly 300k miles on my FJR I've gone through countless sets of PR2 (not GT), RoadSmart, Metzeler, Angel ST & GT, BT021 & 030, etc. taking more than my fair share of these to deep to the cords and never had this kind of failure happen...

Video - Road 5 Rear

 

[rbentnail]

The Bridgestone Potenza RE040 in 175/55R17 will work better than the ATR-K Economist or Yokohama S drive in that size. There is an ebay link in my post above. In the 205 width, The G-Max has a good rep. The Riken Raptor ZR is not fully known yet. Have you read thru the Darksider FAQ?

I like the Riken better the the G-Max AS-03 I had and better than the Michelin Exalto I had. IMHO the Riken is superior to both when pumped up a few extra psi to 35 or so.

 

[glory racing]

The Bridgestone Potenza RE040 in 175/55R17 will work better than the ATR-K Economist or Yokohama S drive in that size. There is an ebay link in my post above. In the 205 width, The G-Max has a good rep. The Riken Raptor ZR is not fully known yet. Have you read thru the Darksider FAQ?

I like the Riken better the the G-Max AS-03 I had and better than the Michelin Exalto I had. IMHO the Riken is superior to both when pumped up a few extra psi to 35 or so.

I am thinking the Raptor is what I am gonna try. What did you like better about the RikenI see they have a 205/45 and 205/50. What size might be better and why? Thanx.

 

[rbentnail]

"I am thinking the Raptor is what I am gonna try. What did you like better about the Riken"

Better ride comfort, better & easier handling, better off road traction.

"I see they have a 205/45 and 205/50. What size might be better and why?"

I have no idea, I have tried 1. I use the 205/50-17. All 3 car tires I've tried have been the same.

 

[glory racing]

ok...Riken Raptor ZR A/S in 205/50/17 it is.

Thanx for the advise.

 

[glory racing]

Did some searching today and there is no preowned 205/50/17 tire in my podunk little AR town. Also no tire retailer can get the Riken so I would have to order on the internet. Although the FJR stock tire size is a 180/55 and the 205/50 Raptor will fit, I am not so sure the tire will fit my VFR even though a 190/55 is stock. The comment that car tires spec sizes are larger than the equivalent size mc tires creates even more doubt.

The Riken is also available in a 205/45/17 which has a smaller sectional width but they state that it can be mounted on a 6.5 - 7.5 inch rim. Don't know why but it states the 205/50/17 can be mounted on a 5.5 - 7.5 rim.

Would it be possible for someone to provide the actual maximum mounted width of a 205/50/17? Or how bout the maximum width available for a CT on the FJR?

 

[user 213]

Measure the space you have between the swing arm and what ever may be there to interfere. On the FJR it was the brake stay, which is normally a boxed extruded aluminum bar. Replacing that with a flat 3/16" steel bar, mounted to the outside of the bosses, gave much greater clearance and solved the issues. Read up on the Riken specs, specifically the section width and what wheel width that's measured on. It won't be exact, but it will give you a relative starting point.

The reason the 45 series tire is spec'd for a wider rim is because the shorter side walls need more support, I.E. closer to the width of the tire. Single sided swing arm bikes typically get tight at the front radius on the inside of the swing arm. Some people have successfully spaced out the wheel to get more clearance in that area.

I don't have a Darkside FJR any more, so can't provide a measurement.

 

[rbentnail]

Did some searching today and there is no preowned 205/50/17 tire in my podunk little AR town. Also no tire retailer can get the Riken so I would have to order on the internet. Although the FJR stock tire size is a 180/55 and the 205/50 Raptor will fit, I am not so sure the tire will fit my VFR even though a 190/55 is stock. The comment that car tires spec sizes are larger than the equivalent size mc tires creates even more doubt.
The Riken is also available in a 205/45/17 which has a smaller sectional width but they state that it can be mounted on a 6.5 - 7.5 inch rim. Don't know why but it states the 205/50/17 can be mounted on a 5.5 - 7.5 rim.

Would it be possible for someone to provide the actual maximum mounted width of a 205/50/17? Or how bout the maximum width available for a CT on the FJR?

I order all my tires on the web. Motorcycle, car, bicycle and lawnmower. What's the problem? And why are you looking for a preowned tire?

I'm beginning to think you are way overthinking this. Perhaps rather than asking for VFR info on an FJR forum a visit to a more appropriate forum is needed. JS.

 

[user 213]

He was looking for a used tire as a cheap test fit experiment. Something I did in the beginning too, just to prove the concept and find any issues before spending the money on a better tire. There probably isn't much info on the VFR forums for darksiding. Someone has to be the first. Like I was here.

@glory racing - You might call some wrecking yards looking for a used tire. They might even mount it for you. https://www.tennisonautosales.com/

 

[glory racing]

I order all my tires on the web. Motorcycle, car, bicycle and lawnmower. What's the problem? And why are you looking for a preowned tire?

I'm beginning to think you are way overthinking this. Perhaps rather than asking for VFR info on an FJR forum a visit to a more appropriate forum is needed. JS.

The problem is if the internet ordered tire would not fit I would be stuck with the hassle and cost of the tire. If I could purchase locally it would be easier to return and if I got lucky and it did fit I would be spending money locally...always a good thang. I was looking for a preowned locally because I thought it was a good suggestion to affordably test the fit.

I came to the FJR forum because of the substantial darkside experience and willingness members have to assist. The Goldwing is to different of a machine. Jus curious what you think that more appropriate forum would be?

 

[glory racing]

I did some more checking this morning and was able to move the exhaust can, the limiting width factor, out a little over an inch. That 'should' create the overall space for the 205/50 to fit. Spacing out the wheel was mentioned if necessary to create more space on the hub side. Since the VFR is single sided swingarm I could simply place washers on the studs to move the wheel over a bit. Probably only an 1/8 inch could be achieved but that little bit could make the difference. Is this what you are suggesting? Thanx.

 

[user 213]

I did some more checking this morning and was able to move the exhaust can, the limiting width factor, out a little over an inch. That 'should' create the overall space for the 205/50 to fit. Spacing out the wheel was mentioned if necessary to create more space on the hub side. Since the VFR is single sided swingarm I could simply place washers on the studs to move the wheel over a bit. Probably only an 1/8 inch could be achieved but that little bit could make the difference. Is this what you are suggesting? Thanx.

Yes, you have the idea correct. Some have used a single washer or adapter with bolt holes as well. It really depends on the design of the hub/wheel. The BMW single sided swing arm needed an adapter to get enough clearance. The 'Busa guy didn't need to do much of anything. Just look at how the wheel fits against the hub to see what's the best method for your bike. Remember that if the wheel is hub-centric, you may need to consider a spacer there instead of on each stud. You might be able to find something the right I.D. or O.D. and get someone locally to trim the other dimension to fit.

 

[glory racing]

Thanx again...I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[glory racing]

Tire is on. After moving exhaust and placing 1/8" washers on wheel hubs there is enough clearance. I have a hugger to help protect the Ohlins shock that I decided to cut down about 4 inches. It is still high enough to protect the shock.

I was expecting to hate the handling but was pleasantly surprised. The handling is not bad, just different with its quirky attributes. Actually it's quirks are not as bad as the Roadsmart 3's which IMO had excessive and uncomfortable fall in.

I was solo and ran 36 psi and it seemed ok. I ran AR highway 7, which is a very nice twisty stretch with some tight sections, and the tire still shows about 3/8" chicken strips on the treads. Outside temps were mid 80's and the tire pressure rose to 40.5 #'s.Since I don't know how it 'should' handle, not sure if I should increase/decrease tire pressure. Should I go up a couple pounds for 2up riding?

Pillion has not yet actually participated because she is still concerned the tire may burst into flames mid turn. If I ride a few more times without the need for extinguishing she may mount up.

 

[user 213]

Typically I consider tire pressure as what load you are running on the tire. Considering you're about 1/4 of a car's weight, running the same pressure a car would run is pretty normal for Darksiders. I would try lowering the pressure 2 psi at a time and see how it feels to you. Typically, I ran 30-32 psi, which is what a sports car running the same tire would usually run. What lowering the tire pressure will do in real world terms is to allow the side walls to flex a little more and make turn in easier/smoother with a less pronounced 'fall in' feel.

You should never see any wear on the side walls of the tire. That's not how a CT works on a bike. You will lift up the outside edge at high lean angles, but that is not a negative or hazardous issue, just normal behavior. You'll still have more tread on the ground than a moto tire. The tire is flexing into an oval shape as you lean. Lower pressures and softer side walls help that. When the lean angle exceeds the tire's ability to flex, it comes back to a round shape, the rear of the bike raises up and the outside edge of the tire lifts off the pavement. This lift and raising of the rear of the bike quickens turn in and cancels out what would otherwise feel like resistance to turn in. You don't notice it riding, it all occurs simultaneously.

Some tires will handle better with more pressure. Some riders simply like the feel of higher pressure too. Typically you will see accelerated wear at higher pressures in this application. I got very even wear across the tire running 32 psi on the tires I ran. And I wasn't slow thru the twisties. But also not a total hooligan either.

 

[SkooterG]

Raising tire pressure to 35 psi or so made tne initial turn in easier for me.

 

[Canadian FJR]

39 psi on the General G-max seems to be working well so far.

Canadian FJR

 

[glory racing]

When the weather cooperates I will get out again and play with the air pressures a couple #'s at a time. In the meantime just to ease my noob brain...

I have some people suggesting that I should be in the mid to upper 20's yet I am seeing here mid to upper 30's. I realize that every rider, tire, bike, etc is different but that is a significant difference. Since I do not know how the tire/bike should handle or how it may feel when the tire is at its limit I am still a bit skeered. Certainly don't want my ignorance and inexperience to allow me to cross the line.

The Raptor has a max pressure of 51 psi. What is the max pressure of the tires that y'all are running in the mid to upper 30's? Maybe that is the difference.

I know how it feels when a mc tire reaches its limit and tells you it can't handle much more. Is there such a thing that is describable with a CT?

Regarding my prior chicken strip comment, the Raptors tread extends and rolls down the sidewall about an inch before the actual 'sidewall' begins. That is where the tire has the 3/8th inch untouched portion. I am assuming this is normal. ???

 

[Chuck35]

If you install a tire pressure monitoring system you can watch pressure and temperature rise to get an idea if you're running at the optimum pressure.