Little things can make a BIG difference

[rhody]

OK, It has been awhile since I posted, for the benefit of others and to vent frustration with my own lack of attention to detail I want to share the following...

Returning from a local ride on roads traveled frequently with one exception, weather was cooler than usual that day so I decided to wear

ski gloves for warmth/safety, cold fingers are baddd..... when you need to stop in a hurry.

I have found that using 3rd gear with the beloved FJR, you can pretty much have all the torque, acceleration you need between 40 - about 100 mph, 05 Gen 1 ABS model.

A favorite pastime, bad habit, or whatever you wish to call it is:

1. Before entering corners requiring entry speeds: 30 - 60 mph, it is fun to push the old girl a bit sometimes to 4th, then blip back to 3rd or 2nd as needed,

2. Apply light rear brake, followed by heavy rear, (settling the suspension) then repeat the sequence with the front, light the hard, within about 1.25 or so seconds, trailing the front brake to off just before before corner entry while continuing to trail the rear brake to adjust lean as necessary to negotiate a corner without scaring myself shitless.

3. Winter gloves (having more padding than usual leathers) results in less than expected stopping force being applied to front brake.

4. As I am entering the corner, just before turn in, I realize in about 1.25 to 1.5 seconds, awww... crap, too much corner speed, and, then quickly apply more trailing rear brake with lean.

5. Did not hyperventilate, lose it, but realized I probably exceeded 95% of my traction points and confidence in my ability in the process.

6. Made the correction, more rear brake, tightening up the line and finished the corner safely.

Moral of this story, little things (glove softness in this case, when suddenly switching from straight leather, can and do make a big difference).

Has anyone else experienced a similar situation, with tires, new boots, gloves etc.... and have advice, lessons to share

The reason I am posting this is to save others possible injury or worse, and as a reminder to pay attention to the little things, tire pressure, tire wear, new gear, etc... every time they ride. They can and do make a difference in how the bike behaves when driven in a moderately aggressive manner.

 

[Bungie]

Shit happens. Its our jobs to manage it. You did, learn from it.

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

Doesn't sound like the problem was your gloves. Sounds like the problem is the way you're negotiating your curves. Try this: scrub off your speed (using BOTH brakes, firmly and progressively) BEFORE you lean the bike and enter the curve. Then, as you lean the bike into the curve, you can have a smooth roll on of the throttle throughout the entire curve. THAT'S what seats your suspension. Trail braking into a curve not only does NOT seat your suspension, it shifts weight OFF your rear tire which, depending largely on your lean angle, has less available traction while leaning.

Applying brakes in a curve you've entered too hot is the LAST thing you want to do. Even if you have the traction available to do it, it'll cause the bike to want to stand up....especially using rear brake only. Enter a curve too hot? Hold your throttle steady and press harder in the direction you want to turn.

That's my $.02. Glad you made it through that situation unscathed.

 

[glory racing]

New motocross boots on a dirt bike can cause crashes!

 

[rhody]

Doesn't sound like the problem was your gloves. Sounds like the problem is the way you're negotiating your curves. Try this: scrub off your speed (using BOTH brakes, firmly and progressively) BEFORE you lean the bike and enter the curve. Then, as you lean the bike into the curve, you can have a smooth roll on of the throttle throughout the entire curve, which is what seats your suspension. Trail braking into a curve not only does NOT seat your suspension, it shifts weight OFF your rear tire which, depending largely on your lean angle, has less available traction while leaning.
Applying brakes in a curve you've entered too hot is the LAST thing you want to do. Even if you have the traction available to do it, it'll cause the bike to want to stand up....especially using rear brake only. Enter a curve too hot? Hold your throttle steady and press harder in the direction you want to turn.

That's my $.02. Glad you made it through that situation unscathed.

Thanks Larry,

Coming from an MSF Instructor I appreciate your comments, my technique when entering corners (from straight up riding) when slowing aggressively

is to apply both brakes, I prefer, rear first then front, scrub of what I think is enough speed to make a safe corner entry before flicking it in, (I am off the front brake before the flick, tucking the front in the corner is not something I want to do again, did it in my twenties and fortunately for me it worked out with minor damage to myself and the bike) with the throttle in maintenance mode (cracked slightly), with my foot just on the rear a tad, just in case I miscalculate, which unfortunately was the case in this situation, and if needed to apply more lean to correct my line, which I did in this case.

I have entered this same corner, dozens of times before, with regular leather gloves, and with the same amount to speed to scrub off using the technique I just mentioned and and was fine, near the apex I would start to get on the gas a little at a time and by the end of the corner, put more power to the ground.

I forgot to mention that part in the post.

Your last comment: "Hold your throttle steady and press harder in the direction you want to turn." is good advice, but I was afraid the my tire traction was near it's limit. A session at a local school like Penguin Racing in New Hampshire with good instructors is something that has been on my "to do list" for the past couple of years. I have been told once you attend a well run Racing school you realize there is more traction than you think possible.

Unfortunately so is making a a trip to the Isle of Man in June next year. I may only get to do one or the other, and right now watching the likes of Guy Martin ,John McGuiness, and Ian Hutchinson race is something is higher on my agenda. I am sure it will provide motivation to attend Penguin the following year

 

[darmie]

Great Info. Glad you shared with others. Not an FJR owner yet, but I know larger things can change your curve approach. When I changed out risers on my sabre, I knew I needed to get some seat time before I was on the road. It did change the feel on how you pushed on the bars. We think things on this level of mods your riding style will change your approach angle, but just a glove change? So, good to know.

Another note. Coming from years of using MTF school of thought on the bikes I've owned over the years, (most if not all, cruiser type) it's always been Slow, Look, Lean, Roll. Then a month or so back, I'm reading in one of my current bike mag issues of trail braking. Now I'm like WHAT? Then it had me thinking, how does one go and master trail braking? The article actually mention trail braking was easier to do. Something about, room for error adjustments compared to brake before the curve.

Anyway, all my riding as been slow look lean and roll so I'll probably stick with that until at lease some professional training. Oh yea maybe even on their bike...//

 

[madmike2]

Maybe.....thinking along the line of reasoning Larry seems to be using.....if the weather is cold enough you have to suit up, you might want to throttle back accordingly.

IOW, wick it back 10% or more because the road surface is also cold so traction is even more limited. I hope you took notes.

 

[happyPuppy]

I was taught to squeeze both and set speed, and then squeeze the front to compress the forks a bit, and leave it on lean hard and steady throttle as I leaned. I only let off the front when I exited. I never used the rear brake in the turn. It was a long time ago I admit at Keith Codes's school @ Laguna Seca.

 

[TruWrecks]

I was taught to squeeze both and set speed, and then squeeze the front to compress the forks a bit, and leave it on lean hard and steady throttle as I leaned. I only let off the front when I exited. I never used the rear brake in the turn. It was a long time ago I admit at Keith Codes's school @ Laguna Seca.

At the 2-Fast.org track school they say racers target 2% front brakes when they pass their exit marker for the corner.

As you approach the corner choose your line, start braking with the front to setup your suspension for the corner and decrease throttle, get your body position set. Look through your corner as far as you can and start tipping in to the corner. If you shift some weight onto the inside foot peg it will help make the bike more stable in the turn because it will lower the center of gravity (CG is affected more on lighter bikes, and less on heavier ones). As you begin leaning the bike you need to start decreasing the front brakes and hold the throttle steady. When you pass your chosen apex mark you want to start increasing the throttle as you decrease the front brakes. This will push the bike wider as set you up for the exit of the turn. Continue to increase throttle and decrease the front brakes until you pass the exit mark, and the bike is upright. Then you can let off the front brakes and throttle up to your harts content.

This is the best I can explain what I do on the track using trail braking. On the street I basically the same thing, but much slower. I almost never use my rear brake unless I'm doing very slow speed turns, or the road offers very low traction. Using the rear brake too aggressively in a turn can lead very quickly to a high-side. The beauty of the ABS on the FJR is very forgiving to bad habits. It will keep the wheels from locking up from over braking. It can't save you from every mistake, but it does a pretty damn good job.

 

[rhody]

I am glad this thread seems to be generating some interesting replies.

Here is another example of what I of what I mean by the small things having a big impact.

In the Nov 09 issue of Motorcyclist, page 84, Aaaron Frank, expert rider and long time contributor

to the magazine relates the following: I will summarize as succinctly as I can.

1. riding his Honda CBR1000RR after being used at Road America, a notoriously hard braking circuit without inspecting the bike first

2. encountered a violent tank slapper that the HESD steering damper could not smooth out

3. result, Aaaron crashed, and his full gear, leathers, boots, etc, saved him, bike suffered on 1000 $ or so in damage, no damage to his body

4. investigation showed, HESD working fine, sticky brake caliper with protruding pistons on one side, pads almost worn to backing plates

5. IMHO a brief inspection prior to using the bike with the sticky brake caliper may have saved him from being ejected

This is an aside from the story about Aaron Frank, but I think the stories in this book apply to the theme and spirit of this thread.

Check out this link: https://www.deepsurvival.com is exceptionally well written by Laurence Gonzales

I enjoyed this book because it shows that the choices people who when confronted with life and death situations make,

can make the difference between living and dying. You can read any chapter which contains a different story about a challenging survival situation.

I highly recommend it for anyone who spends lots of time enjoying the outdoors...

 

[happyPuppy]

TruWrecks, yes that is what I was taught. I don't ride that fast on the street much but it has saved me on a decreasing radius when I was too hot on Mt Baker. I can get it to lean more and faster. I really stand on the outside peg too, and shift my body inside really far A track bike it is easier as they are lighter and I am not as afraid of road crap. On the tech day I want to set my suspension better on the FJR I am getting too much front dive still

 

[rhody]

Awww, crap, I gotta throw those damn ski gloves out and get :angry2: some warm ones that do not interfere with

the front brake and clutch levers.....

Tonight, wearing those same gloves, I was at a stop light, needed to turn left in a hurry and stalled it, almost tipping it over in the process.

It never happens unless I am wearing those damn things...

Does anyone have a good recommendation/links to warm gloves, that are NOT thick and spongy ???

I am all ears...

 

[happyPuppy]

Awww, crap, I gotta throw those damn ski gloves out and get :angry2: some warm ones that do not interfere with the front brake and clutch levers.....

Tonight, wearing those same gloves, I was at a stop light, needed to turn left in a hurry and stalled it, almost tipping it over in the process.

It never happens unless I am wearing those damn things...

Does anyone have a good recommendation/links to warm gloves, that are NOT thick and spongy ???

I am all ears...

Sounds like it time for heated grips, and then you can wear thinner gloves. I use a liner and thinner gloves. I too like a firm feel.

 

[jzzmusician]

rhody,

Thanks for the link. Looks like a good read and good information.

 

[Mcgyver74]

Your gear really shouldn't make a difference in cornering, it is about technique, BUT, I have found that when using my larger tankbag that I find myself being more hesitant with low speed cornering or high speed, it's not the bag doing it, it's the psychological impact that I know ti's there etc..

Sounds crazy, but the tank bag does affect my riding

 

[fjrrider]

New motocross boots on a dirt bike can cause crashes!

There are a few dummys on this board that can crash just looking in the rearviews too long! It dont take much and happens in a blink!

 

[wheatonFJR]

New motocross boots on a dirt bike can cause crashes!

There are a few dummys on this board that can crash just looking in the rearviews too long! It dont take much and happens in a blink!

+1 on that

 

[nofreeride]

Awww, crap, I gotta throw those damn ski gloves out and get :angry2: some warm ones that do not interfere with the front brake and clutch levers.....

Tonight, wearing those same gloves, I was at a stop light, needed to turn left in a hurry and stalled it, almost tipping it over in the process.

It never happens unless I am wearing those damn things...

Does anyone have a good recommendation/links to warm gloves, that are NOT thick and spongy ???

I am all ears...

Sounds like it time for heated grips, and then you can wear thinner gloves. I use a liner and thinner gloves. I too like a firm feel.

Heated grips AND handguards. Wear your regular gloves year round!

 

[Deacon51]

New motocross boots sent me to the hospital.

It was a high, steep, triple. First ride in my new boots, toe got over the rear break in the air, forced the rear of the bike high and I hit the landing like a dart into the dirt. Broken jaw, hyper extended both knees and thought my back was broken. Took two days for me to move my toes. That was 23 years ago, I was 15, and I haven't been on a motocross track since. (Started racing hare scrambles and Cross Country for a few years before joining the Navy)

stupid boots.... I was almost good back then.