Need Help Finding a Momentary OFF Switch

[KnuckleHead]

Ok, I have posted a few times on my problems with my HID set ups. I am on my second one now (first was a Chinese set off of eBay and I just recently put in a set from DDM Tuning). My problem is that about 50% of the time only one of the lights will fire up. Normally, if I turn the bike off and restart I can get the second light to light up. Sometimes it takes more the a few tries. I thought that this was a problem with the cheap eBay ballasts, but I am having the same problem with my DDM set.

Now, I am no electrician or wrench, but I do know that when cranking over, the starter takes a lot of power. I am thinking that it is not leaving enough juice around to fire up both HID's constantly. So to test this theory, I fired up the bike this AM. Sure enough, only one light lit. I then pulled the fuse from the HID harness. The burning light when dark. Put the fuse back in and bam, both lights came on.

So, my solution to the problem is to get a small momentary switch. Splice it into the power wire for the HID's (after the fuse). The switch will normally be in the "on" position and when pressed will go in the "off" position. I can then hold that for a few seconds and release it, lighting up the lights.

Here comes the reason for the post. I have spent hours searching the internet for someplace that sells a switch like I described. I have found a few, but they were at wholesale places that either don't sell to the public or only sell in bulk. Thank you, but I really don't need 1000 of them.

Is there anyone out there that knows of a place that will sell a switch like this? The fuse on the HID harness is 30A so I would need something that can handle at least that. Any (non smartass) input would be appreciated. :glare:

Thanks

 

[Patriot]

If you tap into the green with blue stripe wire under the right panel under the dash near the automatic windshield retraction plug for switched power to the relay coil, then, like the headlights, the lights will only come on when the engine is running (I assume these are separate auxilary lights installed using switched power to the relay coil.)

Halfway down on this install is a schematic and pic of the area and wire you would need to find and tap into:

Find the green wire with blue stripe

A switch you describe is at Radio Shack, even in the stores, I believe:

Radio Shack Normally Closed Momentary Switch

 

[McDee]

(nevermind. Better answer above)

 

[ahchiu]

I have the same type switch, I don't think it can handle the current required to run the HID ballast, you might get a on/off that can handle higher current

 

[KnuckleHead]

If you tap into the green with blue stripe wire under the right panel under the dash near the automatic windshield retraction plug for switched power to the relay coil, then, like the headlights, the lights will only come on when the engine is running (I assume these are separate auxilary lights installed using switched power to the relay coil.)
Halfway down on this install is a schematic and pic of the area and wire you would need to find and tap into:

Find the green wire with blue stripe

A switch you describe is at Radio Shack, even in the stores, I believe:

Radio Shack Normally Closed Momentary Switch

Thanks for the reply, but....

I dont think that changing the power will help. The Wiring harness connects to one of the headlight plugs to open the relay once the light plug gets power. The actual power draw is straight from the battery, so I think your suggestion above would be the same as it is now.

As for the switch, I saw that one but it is only rated at 0.5 amps and according to the manufacturer, each ballasts draws 6 amps at start up so I need something a little beefier.

 

[Patriot]

If you tap into the green with blue stripe wire under the right panel under the dash near the automatic windshield retraction plug for switched power to the relay coil, then, like the headlights, the lights will only come on when the engine is running (I assume these are separate auxilary lights installed using switched power to the relay coil.)
Halfway down on this install is a schematic and pic of the area and wire you would need to find and tap into:

Find the green wire with blue stripe

A switch you describe is at Radio Shack, even in the stores, I believe:

Radio Shack Normally Closed Momentary Switch

Thanks for the reply, but....

I dont think that changing the power will help. The Wiring harness connects to one of the headlight plugs to open the relay once the light plug gets power. The actual power draw is straight from the battery, so I think your suggestion above would be the same as it is now.

As for the switch, I saw that one but it is only rated at 0.5 amps and according to the manufacturer, each ballasts draws 6 amps at start up so I need something a little beefier.

Maybe you should wire in a relay (normally closed automotive relay) with a momentary normally open switch.

That should do it. Digikey would have both. Their help line is good to find what you need.

I'm sure eastern beaver could make one up it you wanted them to.

 

[bramfrank]

The proper answer is to drive the ballasts through the contacts of a relay wired to trigger from the headlight circuit.

It would also help if you had a quality ballast, I'm sure.

 

[Bustanut joker]

30 amp!!! Damn dude, I suggest a relay before the switch.. I have one or two 10 amp switches I'd gladly ship ya but, well 30 amp? Whew :blink:

:jester:

 

[KnuckleHead]

The proper answer is to drive the ballasts through the contacts of a relay wired to trigger from the headlight circuit.
It would also help if you had a quality ballast, I'm sure.

I will state again that I am no electrician/wrench, but isn't that what I have? There is a relay in the wiring harness and as I mentioned above, I also plug one of the headlight plugs into the harness. If my theory is correct, this would not help. Now if I could get a relay that would delay, say 5 seconds when power hits one side of it before it passes the power through...now that may work.

 

[bramfrank]

The proper answer is to drive the ballasts through the contacts of a relay wired to trigger from the headlight circuit.
It would also help if you had a quality ballast, I'm sure.

I will state again that I am no electrician/wrench, but isn't that what I have? There is a relay in the wiring harness and as I mentioned above, I also plug one of the headlight plugs into the harness. If my theory is correct, this would not help. Now if I could get a relay that would delay, say 5 seconds when power hits one side of it before it passes the power through...now that may work.

Actually, I'm not certain that you DO have it set the way you think . . however If you do, then the ballasts wouldn't switch on until the headlights come on and the starter is no longer engaged, sucking juice from the battery . . . impliying that the issue is not necessarily directly related to cranking voltages.

My ballasts are from Hella and they NEVER fail to fire - and mine come on with the ignition swittch, not the headlights - so they are on through the crank cycle.

So, assuming that you DO apply power only after the cranking is over and they still don't work reliably your ballasts are THAT sensitive you might want to consider (as suggested) getting higher quality ballasts.

In the mean time there are timer relays out there you can buy ready made. Head over to Google and search on the following key words: time delay relay

Note that you would have to use THIS relay to drive the one that powers your lights, because most of them do not have enough current handling capacity to handle the statrup current that ballasts suck.

 

[Geezer]

OK, if you have the ballasts wired through a relay that is energized by the headlight circuit then the ballasts are not getting energy until after the bike starts. If all that is true, then your problem may be that the battery is drawn down from starting and the charging circuit is not putting out enough power to recharge the battery and fire the ballasts at the same time. Maximum electrical output on the FJR doesn't happen below about 5K rpm.

If so, then you need to keep those energy hog ballasts off for a at least couple of minutes while the battery re-charges. In that case you may want to use a separate switch for each ballast so you aren't trying to fire them both at once.

Another problem could be the wire you are using to feed the ballasts. If the wire is too thin it will resist the flow of electricity. For a thirty amp draw you need at least 10 gauge wire. That's pretty heavy stuff for a motorcycle.

 

[KnuckleHead]

The proper answer is to drive the ballasts through the contacts of a relay wired to trigger from the headlight circuit.
It would also help if you had a quality ballast, I'm sure.

I will state again that I am no electrician/wrench, but isn't that what I have? There is a relay in the wiring harness and as I mentioned above, I also plug one of the headlight plugs into the harness. If my theory is correct, this would not help. Now if I could get a relay that would delay, say 5 seconds when power hits one side of it before it passes the power through...now that may work.

Actually, I'm not certain that you DO have it set the way you think . . however If you do, then the ballasts wouldn't switch on until the headlights come on and the starter is no longer engaged, sucking juice from the battery . . . impliying that the issue is not necessarily directly related to cranking voltages.

My ballasts are from Hella and they NEVER fail to fire - and mine come on with the ignition swittch, not the headlights - so they are on through the crank cycle.

So, assuming that you DO apply power only after the cranking is over and they still don't work reliably your ballasts are THAT sensitive you might want to consider (as suggested) getting higher quality ballasts.

In the mean time there are timer relays out there you can buy ready made. Head over to Google and search on the following key words: time delay relay

Note that you would have to use THIS relay to drive the one that powers your lights, because most of them do not have enough current handling capacity to handle the statrup current that ballasts suck.

I think the relay will work. I have started it up a few times now with the fuse out and then after a few seconds put the fuse in. So far both lights have fired up every time.

Do you know a place to buy Hella ballasts? I am not against getting quality shit. In my searches, I found one place that sold the Phillips ballasts, but they were the car size and too big for the fairing.

 

[Fred W]

Knucklehead,

I have the HID headlights set up the same as you, with its relay box driven off of one of the two headlight connectors, so that the HIDs don't fire until after the engine starts. And I have experienced the "one headlight" symptom occasionally as well. What I've noticed is that this seems to happen on the first start of the day when the battery hasn't been on the tender, especially if I have left my Hella FF50's and / or heated grips on. I don't think it has happened since I began being sure to turn everything of when parking. My guess is that the battery voltage gets drawn down by the starter and the headlights try to fire-up immediately after the engine starts, the voltage hasn't yet recovered.

What would be ideal would be a few seconds of time delay added to let the alternator come up to speed before attempting to fire the HIDs.

Your momentary "switchus interruptus" idea would work OK too. But the place you want to add the switch is in the control signal to the relay (where it comes from the headlight socket), not the high current main wires running from the battery +. You did run those heavy wires directly from the battery, right?

 

[KnuckleHead]

Knucklehead,
I have the HID headlights set up the same as you, with its relay box driven off of one of the two headlight connectors, so that the HIDs don't fire until after the engine starts. And I have experienced the "one headlight" symptom occasionally as well. What I've noticed is that this seems to happen on the first start of the day when the battery hasn't been on the tender, especially if I have left my Hella FF50's and / or heated grips on. I don't think it has happened since I began being sure to turn everything of when parking. My guess is that the battery voltage gets drawn down by the starter and the headlights try to fire-up immediately after the engine starts, the voltage hasn't yet recovered.

What would be ideal would be a few seconds of time delay added to let the alternator come up to speed before attempting to fire the HIDs.

Your momentary "switchus interruptus" idea would work OK too. But the place you want to add the switch is in the control signal to the relay (where it comes from the headlight socket), not the high current main wires running from the battery +. You did run those heavy wires directly from the battery, right?

Ah, yes you are correct in the switch placement as that would require a much less stout switch. However, I would still need to find one that fits the bill.

I did order this time delay relay from amazon which I think will fit the bill.

 

[Fred W]

I did order this time delay relay from amazon which I think will fit the bill.

That looks like it should work. I'd advise you to try and waterproof it the best you can.

 

[KnuckleHead]

I did order this time delay relay from amazon which I think will fit the bill.

That looks like it should work. I'd advise you to try and waterproof it the best you can.

Yeah, thanks. I think I will run it under the seat if I can.

I will report back with the results.

 

[KnuckleHead]

Ok, so I got the relay installed today and it works great. I have the delay set to about 10 seconds and so far they have worked flawlessly. Time will tell, but so far so good.

 

[OhioFJR1300]

I can't help but wonder if your problem could be that your battery voltage is low when you start your bike. Since you never found a problem with the wires that connect the HID lights, the only other thing that would seem to cause your problem is voltage that is too low to fire the ballasts. Wonder what happens if you put the battery on a battery tender overnight and then stated the bike? I'm going to guess that something is draining your battery or its just old and needs replaced, and that the delay relay was not really needed.

 

[KnuckleHead]

I can't help but wonder if your problem could be that your battery voltage is low when you stat your bike. Since you never found a problem with the wires that connect the HID lights, the only other thing that would seem to cause your problem is voltage that is too low to fire the ballasts. Wonder what happens if you put the battery on a battery tender overnight and then stated the bike? I'm going to guess that something is draining your battery or its just old and needs replaced, and that the delay relay was not really needed.

Well, that could very well be. I am sure that it is a problem with the power at start up. For whatever reason there isn't enough to fire up the lights and the starter at the same time. It is possible that it is the battery, but I doubt it as (1) it is barely a year old, (2) it has done this since I put the HIDs in a week after I got the bike new, and (3) it does it even after being on the battery tender for a week or more.

When trying to figure out the install, I searched google for posts regarding the relay and found a thread on the Hayabusa forums. There are a bunch of guys over there that have had the same problem and have resolved it with this relay.

I think it just comes down to too much power draw at start up for the battery. You don't see it on cars with aftermarket HIDs because they have bigger batteries and the lights don't come on right at start up.

Anyway, time will tell if this is ther real fix...so far so good.