Removing the throttle bodies to clean them?

[McRuss]

I had my '09 AE in the shop for a little warranty work a couple weeks ago and the service manager asked me when the last time I did the valve check. I told him I did it at 26k as per schedule. He asked me if I removed the throttle bodies and cleaned them when I did the valve check............! I'd never heard of removing them for any reason associated with maintenance but he claimed they build up gunk around the butterflies and it causes rough idle (yep, my idle is rough) and difficulty in TBS (no problem there that I recall).

So the question is: who has cleaned their throttle body intakes (I use Lucas injector cleaner but that doesn't reach the butterflies)? And if you did, how? Remove the air box? That sounds like a difficult job, maybe worse than removing the TB's!

 

[rickysnickers]

I've never removed the TBs from my bike, but I've cleaned car/truck TBs. They don't need to be removed to clean them. I used a product similar to carb cleaner and just sprayed down the backside of the TB. Yes, they do get rather dirty.

 

[Fred W]

I used Seafoam deep creep spray through the vacuum ports just before my 3rd (75k mile) valve check. I don't think it really did much, but I sure wouldn't want to pay shop labor rates to remove those throttle bodies. It isn't easy.

 

[wfooshee]

You can get to the throttle bodies for cleaning without actually removing them. You have to remove just about everything else to get there..... seat, tank, tool tray, and air box, and all associated hoses, sensors, and electrical connectors. But once the air box is off the throttle plates are right there. You can touch 'em with your fingers, even lick 'em if you want to.

 

[Fred W]

Mmmmm... Tasty!

 

[kamal]

I used Seafoam deep creep spray through the vacuum ports just before my 3rd (75k mile) valve check. I don't think it really did much, but I sure wouldn't want to pay shop labor rates to remove those throttle bodies. It isn't easy.

I sprayed TB cleaner into each port. Not sure if it did much, but the white smoke was kinda cool.

 

[Fred W]

I used Seafoam deep creep spray through the vacuum ports just before my 3rd (75k mile) valve check. I don't think it really did much, but I sure wouldn't want to pay shop labor rates to remove those throttle bodies. It isn't easy.

I sprayed TB cleaner into each port. Not sure if it did much, but the white smoke was kinda cool.

It's black smoke that you are trying to ellicit, as the blackness is from all of the carbon that used to be stuck inside the combustion chambers. The SeaFoam stuff will do that in spades. Whether it cleans the throttle plates very well is in question.

 

[McRuss]

I used Seafoam deep creep spray through the vacuum ports just before my 3rd (75k mile) valve check. I don't think it really did much, but I sure wouldn't want to pay shop labor rates to remove those throttle bodies. It isn't easy.

I picked up a can of Seafoam spray, has a long 'hose' with a curve in it, supposed to slip it in between the airbox and TB through the rubber connector I guess. But injecting it through the vacuum ports had not occurred to me.....are they ahead or behind the butterflies? Guess I'll check it out soon. I only have 39k but it could run better, especially starting 'cold' (which shouldn't have anything to do with the butterflies as far as I know).

It will start immediately but just as quickly will die. I have to be ready to give more throttle than I like with a cold engine to keep it running as soon as it fires.

 

[kamal]

It will start immediately but just as quickly will die. I have to be ready to give more throttle than I like with a cold engine to keep it running as soon as it fires.

Something wrong there. I don't touch the throttle, it starts and runs at 2,000 rpm (when engine is cold) then slowly drops to 1,100 rpm as it warms up.

I'm sure this issue has been dealt with, if I get time I will search it.

 

[RadioHowie]

It will start immediately but just as quickly will die. I have to be ready to give more throttle than I like with a cold engine to keep it running as soon as it fires.

Something wrong there. I don't touch the throttle, it starts and runs at 2,000 rpm (when engine is cold) then slowly drops to 1,100 rpm as it warms up.

I'm sure this issue has been dealt with, if I get time I will search it.

You might want to take a look at THIS thread concerning the "Fast Idle Mechanism" of the FJR. Filth/dirt/crap in the throttle bodies can gum up the mechanism, preventing its normal operation.

 

[Fred W]

Also, 1st gens and 2nd gens definitely have differently adjusted fast idles. Conjecture is that Mamaya adjusted the fast idle mechanism down to accommodate the AEs. If I owned a 2nd or 3rd gen (non-AE) bike I'd try to adjust the fast idle up to the 2000-2500 rpm that the first gens came with.

I doubt this has anything to do with crud built up on the throttle plates.

 

[McRuss]

Hmm, I read through all that fast idle thread and I don't think I want to mess with the fast idle wax thingys. But it does run poorly when cold (banging and thumping and dieing. Still gonna try running the Seafoam through the air box to get at the butterfiles. I suspect mine look a little like those in the fast idle thread!

 

[Fred W]

FWIW, I tried to get the Seafoam into the throttle bodies through the airbox. I'd have to say it was a big FAIL. That's when I went to plan B and shot it through the vacuum ports.

But, as someone mentioned, vacuum ports are on the vacuum side of the butterflies, so you won't be cleaning them when you do that.

The fast idle adjustment isn't messing with the wax motor, just the linkage between it and the fast idle actuators (pistons) in the 4 throttle bodies. I would not think this is too invasive a procedure, and wouldn't hesitate to do it. The worst part of the ordeal is eyeballing the screw and getting at it (with a very long and slender screwdriver) as it is buried under the throttle bodies.

 

[08FJR4ME]

Something seems amiss here. If your steed is running that bad with that amount of mileage it's more than crud on the butterflys. You should be waiting till it hit's 3 bars on the temp gage in order for the bike to be properly warmed up. That said most of us don't. Mine starts right up and purrs like kitten every morning. I go back into the house put my jacket and helment on and by that time she's ready to do her job and get me to work on time. Regardless if I leave late.

I now have 57K on the odo without any idle issues. My driveway is gravel dirt over a 1000 ft. long. I would imagine I would need cleaning before yours does. Your bike doesn't seem normal to me.

Edit: Since you had it in for warrenty work isn't it their responsability to get it to run right? Just sayin.

Hope I am wrong,

Dave

 

[Fred W]

Yabbut, Dave...

This is essentially the same bike and same engine as in my 1st gen. And I don't have to do any of that warm up jig. I don't even start the bike until I'm ready to ride off. I can get geared up, roll the bike out, get the jams dialed up in my headphones for the ride... and then at the very last second, I thumb the starter button. The bike fires (with no throttle manipulation) idles at a tad over 2k rpm, and I ride away. No drama, no clunking, no nothing...

I think (sometimes too much) that Yamaha lowered the fast idle speed for the AEs autoclutch. Crank the (cold) fast idle speed up to 1st gen values and you could live large too.

“Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.”
― Confucius

 

[RadioHowie]

What Fred said. If it ain't an AE, crank that fast idle speed up to 2k rpm minimum.

 

[McRuss]

It is an AE, 'fast idle' is 1500. Much higher than that and it'll take off when ya don't want to!

But anyhow, I removed the air cleaner (time for a new one anyway), no small job on an AE, and sprayed Seafoam into the throttle bodies. Would have been nice to have had a third hand to run the throttle while I sprayed but I got it in anyway. I sprayed in short bursts until it started to bog, the reved it. I got a little smoke but not like I would have liked. I use Lucas injector cleaner every few tanks so cleaning anything on the motor side of the butterflies is already done. It is the other side that I'm trying to get to.

At any rate, this moring it fired off and ran without giving it extra throttle. Stumbled for a second then went into 'fast idle' mode until it warmed up. I would like to have eliminated the initial stumble but am happy with what success I did have. I do belive that to properly clean the TB openings and butterflies, as well as the fast idle pistons, one would have to pull the TBs, not a job that I'm ready to attempt. After I return from AK (on my Wee Strom) I'll probably take it back to the dealer and complain about the way it runs. May change plugs as well but they are Iridiums and only have about 25k on them.

Oh, about warm up...the AE doesn't want to engage at 'normal' throttle openings until one bar shows on the heat gauge. Once it pops up, it is ready to go, no need that I know of to wait for three bars.

 

[wfooshee]

I do belive that to properly clean the TB openings and butterflies, as well as the fast idle pistons, one would have to pull the TBs, not a job that I'm ready to attempt.

No need to pull the throttle body assembly to clean the throttles, just pull the air box. Getting to the fast idle is another proposition, though.

 

[McRuss]

It will start immediately but just as quickly will die. I have to be ready to give more throttle than I like with a cold engine to keep it running as soon as it fires.

Something wrong there. I don't touch the throttle, it starts and runs at 2,000 rpm (when engine is cold) then slowly drops to 1,100 rpm as it warms up.

I'm sure this issue has been dealt with, if I get time I will search it.

So I guess you didn't get time to search it. I did but didn't find anything. And btw, I spent the night in Kamloops on my way back from AK, temps were in the 90s (F). Nice lake, reminded me of Blue Mesa Reservoir in Gunnison, Colorado. Same semi-arid country with pine trees not far away.