Rub Marks on ES Fork

[mcatrophy]

Question for all you technical hotshots. If a front axle bolt is torqued to 91 NM, what torque should be required to loosen it? Ditto for pinch bolts torqued to 21 NM.

Normally more, but why try to measure it?

When I first took the wheel off my current FJR, it took far more than any listed torque figure to undo the axle nut (wrote about it here). "Stiction" or even a touch of corrosion can make undoing much harder than doing up.

If you have a good tool, a tap with a hammer will usually start a tight nut/bolt, but make sure the socket/hex key is properly on/in the bolt, or you will chew the bolt. If there is dirt in the pinch bolt hex hole, clean it all out with a small screwdriver or the like to make sure the key can be fully inserted.

Make sure you have a good socket so that it doesn't slip off or chew the axle bolt, and (if you are unfamiliar with nuts and bolts), make sure you are actually trying to undo it, not make it tighter (I've seen peops do it!) - not to be confused with another technique that sometimes works to "crack" a tight nut, tighten it a tiny bit more before trying to undo it.

 

[dcarver]

I'm thinking he's thinking the dealer way over torqued...

 

[K_Flyer]

I'm thinking he's thinking the dealer way over torqued...

50% chance of a right guess. My experience mirrors the comments above where the loosening torque is higher than the tightening torque. The front axle bolt loosened at about 65 NM (vs the tightening spec of 91). I did not check the pinch bolts with a torque wrench but did loosen them with an ordinary Allen key. Seems much less than 21NM.

I did loosen all the bolts, then followed the book procedure. Yes, I did check the caliper bolts up to the spec torque and they were okay.

Fred, I think you may be right. Since I can't reasonably do all the work myself, and you are far away, maybe we should sell both bikes.

 

[RossKean]

21 Nm is only 15.5 ft-lb. Easily done with just an Allen wrench. Very easy to overtighten these so I always use a torque wrench. 65 Nm on the bolt makes me think it was not tightened enough but hard to say for sure. It is possible that they tightened the pinch bolts before the axle and it loosened over time.

 

[Fred W]

Fred, I think you may be right. Since I can't reasonably do all the work myself, and you are far away, maybe we should sell both bikes.

You could do that. But it sure sounds like you are doing the investigation work now and not just relying on the dealership (who may have been the cause of it all along) which is what I was railing against.

Im also sure that there are other FJR owners nearby that would be willing to help on the things you arent confident of or need physical assistance with. Or attend a tech day and get assistance that way.

Did you happen to notice the fork bottom shifting laterally on the axle when you loosened those pinch bolts? How about trying to polish the scuff mark out, did you try that? Any success there?

 

[K_Flyer]

There appeared to be a very small movement of the RH end of the axle bolt when I released the pinch bolts. I had my finger on the space between the bolt and fork and felt a tiny movement. ("Tiny" not a very precise term but...) I will use some chrome polish (carefully) to see if I can remove the marks.

Up until this tire change, I had removed the wheels myself and taken them into a shop I've used for years for new tires. Think I will go back to that.

Confidence is not the issue. Bought a 36 Ford coupe when I was 15, took it (engine, transmission, rear axle) completely apart and reassembled it. Yes, it ran! In college I was the go-to guy to set up carbs and valves on MG's and Healeys. Getting old sucks.

 

[Fred W]

That small amount of movement could be very significant. It doesnt take much to create binding with such long levers as fork legs.

Im with you on the getting old sucks thing. As my good friend Jack likes to tell me: Getting old is not for sissies!

 

[chazglenn3]

Given the number of friends that have passed on recently, getting old isn't a given either!

 

[art miller]

There appeared to be a very small movement of the RH end of the axle bolt when I released the pinch bolts. I had my finger on the space between the bolt and fork and felt a tiny movement. ("Tiny" not a very precise term but...) I will use some chrome polish (carefully) to see if I can remove the marks.
Up until this tire change, I had removed the wheels myself and taken them into a shop I've used for years for new tires. Think I will go back to that.

Confidence is not the issue. Bought a 36 Ford coupe when I was 15, took it (engine, transmission, rear axle) completely apart and reassembled it. Yes, it ran! In college I was the go-to guy to set up carbs and valves on MG's and Healeys. Getting old sucks.

Was it a 36 Ford coupe 3 or 5 window? I had a 36 Ford 2dr sedan. Really wanted a 3 window coupe but could not afford such at 16 years old. My buddy and I put a 56 Buick V8 engine in the car and hydraulic brakes. Fun car and a chick magnet.

 

[art miller]

I did try to remove the marks with solvent on a paper towel but that made no difference. The marks are very sharp and well-defined. Don't feel any scratches on the tube. Definitely does not look like oil smearing. After 600 more miles since I took the photo, all the old marks are still there and a few more have appeared. Bike goes in for service tomorrow.
Can forks get misaligned when changing the front tire? The dealer installed new tires about 1500 miles ago. I've been wondering why I did not see the marks when I was cleaning up the bike this spring before I took it in for new tires.

Any comment on the dealer's "normal wear of the bushing"?

The forks can absolutely get misaligned when changing a front tire. There is two ways to hold the axle while tightening the front 22 mm axle nut. One is to install a 19 mm hex head in the right side of the axle to keep if from spinning while tightening the axle nut. The other is the way will likely cause fork alignment issues if not done properly. The other way is if they tighten the pinch bolts on the right side to hold the axle from spinning while torquing the 22 mm axle nut. This method can pull the two fork bottoms together causing fork alignment issues and stiction. When you use the front pinch bolt to hold the axle you will see the fork side out after torquing the axle nut when you loosen the right side pinch bolts. Either way you tighten the front axle nut, its a good idea to loosen the right side pinch bolts, compress the forks a few times with the front brake on and re-torque the right side pinch bolts. Bouncing the front suspension before snugging up the pinch bolts will align the fork tube giving you the best ride, and least fork seal and bushing wear.

Many thanks to you and Mac as well as those who have contributed to this topic. I now have 40K on my 2014 ES and the inner fork tubes look like new. Original seals. After each ride I clean and polish the inner tubes with McGuires wax, any non abrasive wax is OK.

 

[K_Flyer]

Was it a 36 Ford coupe 3 or 5 window? I had a 36 Ford 2dr sedan. Really wanted a 3 window coupe but could not afford such at 16 years old. My buddy and I put a 56 Buick V8 engine in the car and hydraulic brakes. Fun car and a chick magnet.

Sorry to go off-topic but... It was a 5-window. Back window had a crank to lower it. Original V-8 with aluminum heads. Mechanical brakes and a radio that tuned with a switch on the floor. Converted it into a hot-rod but kept all the original parts. Paid $70, sold for $750 a few years later. (Went to College.)