Dashbaw
Member
I previously posted my ride home from NAFO where I unexpectedly developed a tire issue. I tend to ride long distances alone, through unpopulated areas. On a few of these rides, I ran into a similar tire problem. If possible, I would normally call AAA get towed and replace the tire. However, in three instances it was not a practical option and I decided to ride back to home base on the worn tire to where a new tire was available. Normally, I replace tires when they hit the wear bars. But what happens when you are caught out in the middle of no where, the cord starts to show through the rubber and there is no cell signal? How far can you go? I decided to test how far a Bridgestone 023 would go before it failed. If it failed I could call AAA and as I am retired, I can hole up for a day or two to have the tire replaced.
This exercise is to acquire knowledge for emergency situations and not to save a few bucks on tires. Below is my original post to a friend on this forum about my trip home from NAFO, to give perspective.
"I just found this thread and think it is a good idea to share experiences. Rather than retype my ride home I have copied an email I sent to a friend about my trip home. First, I want to thank AJ and the other organizers for a great rally. Also, thanks to all the other members of the forum that made me feel welcome, it was appreciated.
On the way to the rally, I hit a deer in the Lolo Pass. On a blind corner he/she was just standing in the road with oncoming traffic. I stood the bike up, did an emergency stop but knew I was going to cream the little guy. I braced the bars and aimed for the hindquarters, spun the deer around so hard it hit my side case and left a mark. I found a safe place to stop about a mile up the road and other than deer poop on the right fork, no damage. I could hear it hit plastic hard so it was likely a fatal blow. My ride home was more interesting as I described to my friend.
Hi Gary,
I left Montrose at 3:45 AM on Sunday. I traveled the same way I came and checked out the roads I mentioned. I think this is a good way around Salt Lake City on some twisty roads. I hit a rock, about the size of a football, on the Douglas Pass on 139 hwy. The tire held pressure but I bent the front rim. I decided to push a longer day while I still had an operational bike and ride to Arco Idaho, just over 900 miles. Hwy 139, 191, north of Vernal, hwy 44 around Flaming Gorge were all twisty roads and a good way to get around Salt Lake City.
Next day I left Arco at 5 AM and arrived in Omak WA at 7 PM pacific time. (gain an hour riding) My rear tire was shot after running the Salmon River Valley. From past experience the peeling rubber means maybe 500 miles left. When I reached the Lolo Pass I rode it British Style, sort of like a dirt bike, to keep it on the side of the tire. It was kind of fun actually, you seem to have a heads up view and it is less fatiguing as long as you don't run out of lean angle.
The next morning it was raining, which was good for the rear tire. Left Omak at 5:30 AM and ran the north Cascade route through Washington Pass in the rain. No traffic in the morning. I arrived at the ferry at about 10:45 AM as it is only about 400 miles. The rear tire was really shot. The centre of the tire was down to the steel belt and half of the belts were sticking up or were gone. Due to a marine emergency the ferries were delayed and I did not get to the island until 3:00 PM
Once on the island I was within trailer range so I just wanted to see how far you could ride on the totally destroyed tire. Home is 90 miles north of the ferry. It was raining harder on the island and I rode through the city of Nanaimo to keep my speed down and then followed the scenic route along the ocean. My speed was kept down to 40 to 45 mph and with the rain the tire remained reasonably cool and I arrived home in about three hours.
I changed the tire yesterday and some of the steel cords had broken through on the inside but still held air. One area of the tire was down to the bias casing. This layer is very flexible but seems strong, as long as you don't abuse the tire or hit something sharp, it may last a lot of miles in an emergency, until a part of the casing actually wears through.
I had the Tire Pressure Sensor screen on the dash to watch for any loss of air. I bet I could have traveled another 100 miles or more at a slow speed on a good highway before a failure. Obviously, I would rather not. I will test the thinnest area of casing with a screw driver to see how tough and thick it is. I have a extra front wheel due to hitting a pot hole a few years ago. Green’s in Vancouver do a good job of re-straightening. I will need new bearings and swap the rotors over to the other wheel to get this bike back on the road. I’ll ride the GS until I have time to get parts and make repairs.
Anyway, it was a good trip with hundreds of corners. My trip was 5205 miles with very few straight sections of road on a new rear tire. I will photograph the wear and send it to you when I get the time. During conversations with a few guys at NAFO we talked about a route to the Pacific Northwest on twisty roads. I may write up a post that describes my route so others have a basic travel route up to Washington that they can refine and run some of the twisty roads. The Pacific NW guys likely have lots of other routes that we don’t know about but this one works for me.
David"
The second post showing the results of riding the worn tire and efforts to preserve the tire was contained in the next personal message to the other form member and is posted below.
"Hi Gary,
I took some photos of the tire wear. The tire on the left, on the bike now, was the tire I rode to Hannigan Meadows on last month. I remounted it to finish it off. I followed the same route as far as Idaho Falls as I did going to Colorado and the return trip was also on twisty roads. I ride this route in the same manner each trip. Total miles for that tire is 5018 miles. The tire on the right is the Colorado tire and it has 5205 miles on it. I guess the rapid acceleration and deceleration really makes a difference. You should really slow down as you are wearing out my tires. Both tires were used loaded and in heat.
The Hannigan Meadow tire has not reached the wear bar yet but close. It is likely about 200 to 300 miles from the centre starting to give the rubber peeling appearance, especially if running on the interstate at 70 or 80 mph. The sides are starting to flatten from the Devil's Hwy.
Just before steel belt appearing.
The Colorado tire displayed the peeling centre shortly after I started home. Then comes a short section of steel belt appearing as the soft rubber over the belt peels off. This grows as the centre of the tire wears. I deflated the tire a few psi to preserve the centre. I also road British style to put the tire on its side more. The sides are worn to the wear bars under the chalk mark, after using this technique in the Lolo Pass.
As the steel belt is exposed it starts to fail and wires are sticking up from the surface of the tire. A few break and push through to the inside of the casing also, but did not seem to leak air.
Under the steel belt is soft rubber similar to the rubber that peels early in the "Oh Shit" process. Then a short section of bias cords appear which are part of the inside casing. In a real emergency I think you could limp a long way at slow speeds on these cords. I rode 90 miles after the cord stated to show a 40 mph but in the rain. Rain keeps the tire cool and likely lubricates to decrease friction. Throttle use is "rain mode." Cheaper tires tend to fail by delaminating between the casing and the belt. This causes hundreds of tiny leaks all around the centre of the tire. When you pour water on a tire like this it causes a foam on the surface. This has happened several times in Yuma. Pumping the tire up every five to ten miles will get you home.
I haven't tired to cut these cords yet but they appear tough and are not a very thick layer. I will test their strength by trying to push a screw driver through them and an awl. Anything interesting and I will send another email with details. Do you think the forum members would be interested in this?" (Well, he said yes so I posted.)
Sorry about the format, I don't know how to correct it. This is the third part of the experiment to test the strength of the bias cords.
I tested the strength of the bias cords by using a large and small screw drivers I put enough pressure on the casing cords to fold the tire. Then I used a knife and pushed with about the same pressure. Air in the tire may have altered the results. The screw drivers did not puncture the cords but the knife did.
I then cut out a section of the cord and found that it was about 1/16 of an inch thick. I have tried to cut sections of tires with the steel belt in place and it was very difficult to cut.
The final layer of bias cords was tough and likely would withstand considerable blunt trauma but not a sharp strike. Previously I felt the maximum I could travel on a tire where the centre had started to peel was 300 to 500 miles. In this case I traveled close to 1000 miles on paved roads. Rain, riding technique and slower speeds likely assisted to preserve the tire to some degree for this mock emergency situation. Obviously, variables will dictate the longevity that a tire may last in an emergency. I was actually surprised at how far this tire traveled. It may have gone farther but I was glad to arrive home. Hopefully, this will give you some idea of what to expect should you need to attempt to ride out of trouble on a worn tire.
P.S. Bent rim from Douglas Pass.
David
This exercise is to acquire knowledge for emergency situations and not to save a few bucks on tires. Below is my original post to a friend on this forum about my trip home from NAFO, to give perspective.
"I just found this thread and think it is a good idea to share experiences. Rather than retype my ride home I have copied an email I sent to a friend about my trip home. First, I want to thank AJ and the other organizers for a great rally. Also, thanks to all the other members of the forum that made me feel welcome, it was appreciated.
On the way to the rally, I hit a deer in the Lolo Pass. On a blind corner he/she was just standing in the road with oncoming traffic. I stood the bike up, did an emergency stop but knew I was going to cream the little guy. I braced the bars and aimed for the hindquarters, spun the deer around so hard it hit my side case and left a mark. I found a safe place to stop about a mile up the road and other than deer poop on the right fork, no damage. I could hear it hit plastic hard so it was likely a fatal blow. My ride home was more interesting as I described to my friend.
Hi Gary,
I left Montrose at 3:45 AM on Sunday. I traveled the same way I came and checked out the roads I mentioned. I think this is a good way around Salt Lake City on some twisty roads. I hit a rock, about the size of a football, on the Douglas Pass on 139 hwy. The tire held pressure but I bent the front rim. I decided to push a longer day while I still had an operational bike and ride to Arco Idaho, just over 900 miles. Hwy 139, 191, north of Vernal, hwy 44 around Flaming Gorge were all twisty roads and a good way to get around Salt Lake City.
Next day I left Arco at 5 AM and arrived in Omak WA at 7 PM pacific time. (gain an hour riding) My rear tire was shot after running the Salmon River Valley. From past experience the peeling rubber means maybe 500 miles left. When I reached the Lolo Pass I rode it British Style, sort of like a dirt bike, to keep it on the side of the tire. It was kind of fun actually, you seem to have a heads up view and it is less fatiguing as long as you don't run out of lean angle.
The next morning it was raining, which was good for the rear tire. Left Omak at 5:30 AM and ran the north Cascade route through Washington Pass in the rain. No traffic in the morning. I arrived at the ferry at about 10:45 AM as it is only about 400 miles. The rear tire was really shot. The centre of the tire was down to the steel belt and half of the belts were sticking up or were gone. Due to a marine emergency the ferries were delayed and I did not get to the island until 3:00 PM
Once on the island I was within trailer range so I just wanted to see how far you could ride on the totally destroyed tire. Home is 90 miles north of the ferry. It was raining harder on the island and I rode through the city of Nanaimo to keep my speed down and then followed the scenic route along the ocean. My speed was kept down to 40 to 45 mph and with the rain the tire remained reasonably cool and I arrived home in about three hours.
I changed the tire yesterday and some of the steel cords had broken through on the inside but still held air. One area of the tire was down to the bias casing. This layer is very flexible but seems strong, as long as you don't abuse the tire or hit something sharp, it may last a lot of miles in an emergency, until a part of the casing actually wears through.
I had the Tire Pressure Sensor screen on the dash to watch for any loss of air. I bet I could have traveled another 100 miles or more at a slow speed on a good highway before a failure. Obviously, I would rather not. I will test the thinnest area of casing with a screw driver to see how tough and thick it is. I have a extra front wheel due to hitting a pot hole a few years ago. Green’s in Vancouver do a good job of re-straightening. I will need new bearings and swap the rotors over to the other wheel to get this bike back on the road. I’ll ride the GS until I have time to get parts and make repairs.
Anyway, it was a good trip with hundreds of corners. My trip was 5205 miles with very few straight sections of road on a new rear tire. I will photograph the wear and send it to you when I get the time. During conversations with a few guys at NAFO we talked about a route to the Pacific Northwest on twisty roads. I may write up a post that describes my route so others have a basic travel route up to Washington that they can refine and run some of the twisty roads. The Pacific NW guys likely have lots of other routes that we don’t know about but this one works for me.
David"
The second post showing the results of riding the worn tire and efforts to preserve the tire was contained in the next personal message to the other form member and is posted below.
"Hi Gary,
I took some photos of the tire wear. The tire on the left, on the bike now, was the tire I rode to Hannigan Meadows on last month. I remounted it to finish it off. I followed the same route as far as Idaho Falls as I did going to Colorado and the return trip was also on twisty roads. I ride this route in the same manner each trip. Total miles for that tire is 5018 miles. The tire on the right is the Colorado tire and it has 5205 miles on it. I guess the rapid acceleration and deceleration really makes a difference. You should really slow down as you are wearing out my tires. Both tires were used loaded and in heat.
The Hannigan Meadow tire has not reached the wear bar yet but close. It is likely about 200 to 300 miles from the centre starting to give the rubber peeling appearance, especially if running on the interstate at 70 or 80 mph. The sides are starting to flatten from the Devil's Hwy.
Just before steel belt appearing.
The Colorado tire displayed the peeling centre shortly after I started home. Then comes a short section of steel belt appearing as the soft rubber over the belt peels off. This grows as the centre of the tire wears. I deflated the tire a few psi to preserve the centre. I also road British style to put the tire on its side more. The sides are worn to the wear bars under the chalk mark, after using this technique in the Lolo Pass.
As the steel belt is exposed it starts to fail and wires are sticking up from the surface of the tire. A few break and push through to the inside of the casing also, but did not seem to leak air.
Under the steel belt is soft rubber similar to the rubber that peels early in the "Oh Shit" process. Then a short section of bias cords appear which are part of the inside casing. In a real emergency I think you could limp a long way at slow speeds on these cords. I rode 90 miles after the cord stated to show a 40 mph but in the rain. Rain keeps the tire cool and likely lubricates to decrease friction. Throttle use is "rain mode." Cheaper tires tend to fail by delaminating between the casing and the belt. This causes hundreds of tiny leaks all around the centre of the tire. When you pour water on a tire like this it causes a foam on the surface. This has happened several times in Yuma. Pumping the tire up every five to ten miles will get you home.
I haven't tired to cut these cords yet but they appear tough and are not a very thick layer. I will test their strength by trying to push a screw driver through them and an awl. Anything interesting and I will send another email with details. Do you think the forum members would be interested in this?" (Well, he said yes so I posted.)
Sorry about the format, I don't know how to correct it. This is the third part of the experiment to test the strength of the bias cords.
I tested the strength of the bias cords by using a large and small screw drivers I put enough pressure on the casing cords to fold the tire. Then I used a knife and pushed with about the same pressure. Air in the tire may have altered the results. The screw drivers did not puncture the cords but the knife did.
I then cut out a section of the cord and found that it was about 1/16 of an inch thick. I have tried to cut sections of tires with the steel belt in place and it was very difficult to cut.
The final layer of bias cords was tough and likely would withstand considerable blunt trauma but not a sharp strike. Previously I felt the maximum I could travel on a tire where the centre had started to peel was 300 to 500 miles. In this case I traveled close to 1000 miles on paved roads. Rain, riding technique and slower speeds likely assisted to preserve the tire to some degree for this mock emergency situation. Obviously, variables will dictate the longevity that a tire may last in an emergency. I was actually surprised at how far this tire traveled. It may have gone farther but I was glad to arrive home. Hopefully, this will give you some idea of what to expect should you need to attempt to ride out of trouble on a worn tire.
P.S. Bent rim from Douglas Pass.
David
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