The High Cost of Service

[birkdale10]

I'm getting myself and '05 FJR all together for a good-sized ride later in November. And, I decided it was time for some service. After 73,000 miles, I really had not had the bike get much in the way of 'real' service. I change the oil, I've replaced the clutch plates, new fork seals, but just not much else.

So. I asked, and I was answered. Here is my list of things to do and what the Yamaha Shop in Irving, TX is asking:

Full Service: $240

Valve Adjust: $440

Pull&Grease front end: $280

Pull&grease swingarm: $200

Flush&bleed all hydraulics: 159.90

Assorted parts.

Total: $1495.00

I bit the bullet, said OK, and brought the bike in. I got home in time to get a call from the service manager. They started it, and pulled it into the shop. He asked me if I was concerned about the noise. What noise? That rattle? It's been there for a long time.

His mechanic says that is the 'cam follower'. I've read other posts here in the Forum that indicate the 'cam follower' can be a concern.

More parts. Another $200 labor (only two hundred, because they are already deep in the engine - most of the labor is already done).

I'm now looking at at least $1750 for service. I admit that I'm taken aback at the amount.

Is this reasonable? Could I have mitigated any of this? (take into account - I do NOT have facilities to do serious service at home, I do NOT have a huge tool inventory, and I admit that I am NOT a particularly good mechanic.)

 

[Wlfman]

Did they at least give you a reach around?

 

[HotRodZilla]

What is "Full Service?" I'm assuming that is an oil and spark plug change. From the sound of it, that's something you could have done yourself and saved $240...

Bleeding the hydraulics should NOT cost $159. Sheesh. A very small investment in SpeedBleeders, and you can do the entire bike yourself in less than an hour. Most of that time is removing the plastic piece under the seat to get to the rear brake reservoir.

So, you could easily have saved $400.

The rest of that? If you don't have the tools, experience, or space, taking it in is probably the best idea. The swingarm can be a time consuming job where a garage is needed. The front end is the same deal, and I still don't know much about pulling my cover do do a valve check, so I may just pay for my next one.

I don't think I would begrudge the service guy for recommending the CamChainTensioner replacement. IF it's been makin that noise for that long and you haven't gotten to it, you're probably lucky.

 

[ionbeam]

Full Service: $240 To what? Your wallet? That's a lot for general maintenance items.
Valve Adjust: $440 If they really mean ADJUST and not just CHECK this is a good price.

Pull&Grease front end: $280 If this is to just grease the steering bearings -- OUCH. While they have it apart it would be a good time to have the forks flushed and fluid replaced.

Pull&grease swingarm: $200 While the price is only a bit high, the need to have this done is low.

Flush&bleed all hydraulics: 159.90 OUCH, OUCH, OUCH. That's a lot of buxs for a non AE, non linked brake Gen I unless they are going to bleed the ABS metering block too (if you have ABS).

Assorted parts. $180? For what? OUCH, OUCH, OUCH.

Total: $1495.00

...His mechanic says that is the 'cam follower'. I've read other posts here in the Forum that indicate the 'cam follower' can be a concern...More parts. Another $200 labor (only two hundred, because they are already deep in the engine - most of the labor is already done)....Is this reasonable?

Yes, do have the cam chain follower replaced, but DAMN, $200? After all the dealer is already in there. Figure the part to be $80 with dealer markup; I believe the dealer is charging you every penny that this job would cost if you brought it in to have just this job done.

I believe you have just been booked. The dealer quoted you by the book, while it is 'industry standard' charges the dealer has done nothing to help you either. At the very least he should send you a very nice Christmas card next month.

 

[Ignacio]

Did something get lost in translation or are those direct quotes of things they'd do?

Straight to a "valve adjust" without first just "checking" the valves? Red flag! They should say, "Valve check - $XXX. If needed and adjustment is $XXX more". If valve checks at 26 and 52K didn't require adjustment--chances are it doesn't need to at 73K.

What specifically are they doing to front end for pull & grease? What's in the "full service"? Sounds like dealer speak to me.

It shouldn't be about "real service" it should be about periodic service according to Yamaha schedule (or reasoned version of it). If you haven't been following one--that's OK and you catch up. Even with limited mechanic skills and tools, look at the actual list of things to do and decide which you might want to do yourself as mitigation. For those other things--they should be parroting back the same items on the list....not making stuff up.

 

[Geezer]

The only thing on that list that seems like a reasonable price is the valve adjust, and even that seems a little high.

For example, there actually is no 'cam follower', there is a cam chain tensioner. I can change a cam chain tensioner in less than an hour even if I drink a couple of beers while doing it. The part is well under $100. If they are checking the valves anyway, changing the tensioner adds only a few minutes since it involves removing two small bolts. They can be difficult to get to, but still not worth $200.

 

[Bounce]

If you do the basic services as listed in many sources, each won't be too costly, can be done by you, and then when you get to something major like the valves clearances, it'll be a single job to quote.

Putting stuff off doesn't save money.

The actual quoted prices may or may not be "high" but $1750 for everything but the oil, filter, and hydraulic swaps over 8 years of ownership seems pretty reasonable.

 

[Queensland Ken]

and I admit that I am NOT a particularly good mechanic

Nor are most Yamaha Dealer mechanics

Eg I complained about the loose steering head bearings at about 1K old. He then proceeded to tighten up the large 36mm head nut, WTF !!!. The first and last time I ever went there. .

Wonder what that would equate to in Aussie $$$$

Over here just the valve check is $550, to change out any shims is extra, the CCT is $320.

Parts here from Mr Yamaha are 3 - 4 times more expensive.

A front set of pads for a Gen 2 was just under $400.

That's why I spent $90 on a service manual when I bought the bike, and buy any tools I may need as I go along working on the bike.

Buy in most of the parts from the States including tyres.

Besides I seen the results the dealers do here, I've worked on a dozen or more Aussie Forum members bikes.

Charging $900 for the 40K service with little work done on the bike.

Never have I seen them service the suspension linkages, nor balanced out the throttle bodies.

One gent who paid good money for the 5K service complained about his rough idle. He showed up early the next day, not only was the TBS way out but his plugs were totally eroded.

Try to do it yourself, keep a log and the receipts.

Forums are a wealth of info.

 

[CA G-Man]

The actual quoted prices may or may not be "high" but $1750 for everything but the oil, filter, and hydraulic swaps over 8 years of ownership AND 73,000 MILES seems pretty reasonable.

Not too bad, if you ask me.

 

[escapefjrtist]

With the cost of labor today, I'm not surprised at the total. Figure $90 - $100 per hour plus the cost of parts at full retail and it adds up quickly.

IMHO, it's worth learning to perform minor maintenance tasks to save $$$. If you're uncomfortable with big stuff then make some forum friends, OR let the dealer take it from there.

YMMV

--G

 

[bwv]

I would probably ask them if they can combine labor on some of the stuff if you have it all done at the same time and give you a total for the whole job at one time.... They might just be giving you "ala carte" prices.

Meaning... if they change the plugs while adjusting the valves... it adds all of 2 minutes to the job... if they do them at seperate times... its an hour...thats a higher labor cost they have to cover... 100$ more maybe..

I'd get a list of the "full service" items.... If they are gonna include a cylinder balance, clean the throttle bodies, grease the drive splines, change the air filter, lube the throttle cables, adjust freeplay, lube the shift linkage, replace the plugs, change the oil, change the final drive fluid, check all fastners are tight and present... etc...meaning "service items" that most of us would do, or that are "due by the book" as far as the Owners manual maintnenace schedule lists... if so..then $240 is a great deal. (I'd say brake and clutch fluid "flush and bleed" is part of a "full service" )

But... if it's "oil , filter, 15 point inspection" then just ask em how much an oil and filter change is and then ask for a sample of thier check list so you can look yourself...

 

[supertankerm60a3]

OK, my .02... None of those things seem ridiculous. Granted they all seem a little high but not to the point of needing a proctologist to repair the damage.

The dealer will use all new gaskets for every cover removed and will be changing coolant when they pull the valve cover. The total, I can see, really hurts.

I would have had the front end and swing arm lubes done at different times, same for the hydraulics.

I take mine to an independent dealer, he would not even quote a price for the valve adjust because it varies so much depending on the number of valves that need the shims changed. The valve adjust alone ended up costing me 350.00, with two valves needing adjustment and a 10% military discount. I have found that the independent shops are a little cheaper and being a customer that returns often gets more personal service.

 

[kman09]

Shop around in your area for a qualified Independent shop. I found one, and the owner is highly qualified to work on Yamaha,Honda,Kawasaki,and Suzuki.

He has certification of all the classes he has taken posted in his waiting room, current and years past. His pricing is way lower then any Dealer for some 50 miles.

Ask around when out riding if there's a mechanic they know and trust. Good Luck!!

 

[kaitsdad]

I'm thinking they didn't pull the relay arm and lube it. Also necessary.

 

[birkdale10]

I got my bike back from the dealer. Total damage: $1678.

It ended up being at the shop for 6 days (4 work days). When they found the problem with the cam tensioner, they had to order a part. I asked them to send it FedEx overnight, and they did, but did not charge me for that.

After a 130 mile ride through the farm roads, my impressions. It runs fine. Very smooth idle, and, yes, I really can tell that it is much quieter at idle. The overall handling! is much improved. They said they took off the swingarm, regreased and put back, and removed the entire front end and regreased. And it tracks like it hasn't in years. 60mph on a long straight, let go of bars and tracked straight for about 1/4 mile, not a hint of wobble. Smooth power. I think I can feel a little bit of extra accelleration, but maybe I'm just dreaming. It was a heap of money, but the bike is better, and ready for my little 2500 mile trip to NM, CO, AZ and back.

I appreciate all the input from the various repliers to this string. A couple of points I'll expand on.

I was told that they did indeed adjust valves. Almost all of them needed to have the shims replaced/adjusted. Ignacio mentioned that a 'check' is not the same as an 'adjust'. I agree. I DID have the bike in at about 40K, and I was charged $240 at that time for a 'check' - where there were no actual adjustments made.

BVW mentioned some of the things that a 'full service' should include. I think they really did a full going over. I can tell that the clutch and brake levers have been lubed. All new fluids in both clutch & brake also. Very smooth. I almost slipped the first time I hit the sidestand with my heel, it came down so easily. I guess I have never even blasted some wd-40 at that linkage before. Again, they seem to have gone over it carefully, lubed, adjusted everything that could be done.

An independent shop? Well, it sure seems as if, in a huge metroplex like DFW, there should be some. Anyone that lives in this area want to chime in with some suggestions?

 

[gixxerjasen]

Are you a member of TWTex.com ??? You should be able to find recommendations over there. Plus, there's pie runs.

 

[mcatrophy]

... I guess I have never even blasted some wd-40 at that linkage before. ...

Remember WD-40 is not a lubricant, it is a Water Dispersant and is also a cleaner. By all means use the WD-40 to clean off the crud, but follow up with grease or whatever to finally lubricate.

 

[supertankerm60a3]

Sounds to me like your shop, while priced high, like most dealers, has done a good job, therefore earning your trust. While paying that does hurt, being a repeat customer can get you discounts.

 

[bwv]

Are you happy with the job and cost? That's the measure you need to go by... We all have our own limits on what we will do to save money... or what we will spend on.... I would do it all my self... others wouldnt even think to ask how much, 'cause this is their thing they dont worry about. You sound somewhere in the middle...

It sounds like they did a nice job and you are happy. Thats all that counts.