Throttle Spring Danger

[BrunDog]

Darn WC stole my thunder...

Anyway, totally agree. Yamaha put those springs in for a reason. This thing isn't a 50cc scooter. A stuck throttle at just the right moment is baaaaad news. I honestly do not think most of us could hit the kill switch without a significant (in road speed terms) change in dynamics. Not only that, shutting off the engine abrubtly entering a turn is not "good" either.

How many of us really practice this, anyway?

-BD

 

[nusman68]

-having a stuck throttle would really play havoc in the 'ole service dept., too:

"Mr. Smith? Yes, this is Bill, the service manager at Pheerless Yamaha...we have a problem..our tech crashed your FJR1300 on his test ride out of the bay following service...we found the cause to be a stuck throttle, related to non-factory authorized modifications....

 

[jaster]

My apoligies to the administrator for not starting this post in the technical section. I considered it a safety issue first.

Was the center spring completly unwound, or had you just removed one wind from the spring? That may be the problem.

The spring was completely unwound, I found it doubled over itself and out of position.

Just as with every single g-damn little glitch on the FJR, this sticking throttle problem is being blown WAY out of proportion. Hell, once you're used to it, getting on the horn is like second nature. It's even kind of fun. Man, when it happens in 5th, my FJR really gets movin'. Yeeeeeeeehaaaawwwwwww!

You know it was kinda nice on the 600 mile ride home to be able to rest the throttle hand without stopping. Sort of a free throttle lock. I knew there was a silver lining in there somewhere. :glare:

Darn WC stole my thunder...Anyway, totally agree. Yamaha put those springs in for a reason. This thing isn't a 50cc scooter. A stuck throttle at just the right moment is baaaaad news. I honestly do not think most of us could hit the kill switch without a significant (in road speed terms) change in dynamics. Not only that, shutting off the engine abrubtly entering a turn is not "good" either.

How many of us really practice this, anyway?

-BD

This whole episode lasted less than a couple seconds. It took a split second to realize the bike wasn't slowing enough to negotiate the corner. For all my years of riding, I knew better, but the panic response kicked in and I grabbed more front brake. I beleive the ABS kept me from locking the front end and laying it down. For the remainder of my ride you can bet that I knew where the kill switch was!

 

[manowell]

good to hear from you Fred!
I've been holding off on many mods to the stock AE throttle stuff (barbarian mod, Fred jerky throttle fix wire, spring release) -- to understand the inputs to the AE computer a little better. If the throttle response changes due to less return spring, or the diameter change (Fred's fix), any change to throttle response that may 'trick' the YCCS computer -- may fix throttle issues, and create shifting issues on the AE.

If I had an A model -- Fred wire would be in, spring removed, etc... but I don't know exactly how the changes to the throttle affect shifting -- note: there's a sensor on the right hand throttle input on the AE model, and i know that's an input to the computer.

I still don't have definitive info on exactly what inputs affect shifting on the AE -- so i'll hold stock until i know more.

Fred helped me out on my new AE, we did the barbarian mod, fred h. shim, and dropped center spring changes.

All that I can say it that it's a brand new bike. MUCH, MUCH nicer to ride, smoother, I don't even think about the throttle in low-RPM 1st or 2nd gear situations anymore. I haven't seen it mess up the AE functions at all, and I'm not really sure that it could, based on what little I know from reading aricles about how YCCS works. :yahoo:

No regrets!

 

[ionbeam]

I have to think that something is sticking because the spring in the TPS alone should be enough to close the throttle even if ALL the other springs were removed. A sticking throttle on an AE is indeed a Bad Thing.

 

[05fjrBluedevil]

Darn WC stole my thunder...
Anyway, totally agree. Yamaha put those springs in for a reason. This thing isn't a 50cc scooter. A stuck throttle at just the right moment is baaaaad news. I honestly do not think most of us could hit the kill switch without a significant (in road speed terms) change in dynamics. Not only that, shutting off the engine abrubtly entering a turn is not "good" either.

How many of us really practice this, anyway?

-BD

agree with out getting it to neutral could be a flying experience

 

[sleddoc]

Use a piece of wire with a small loop in it, route it around the shaft and get it hooked on the spring end, then pull it around and attach the spring. Not a biggie. For what it's worth, over 23,000 miles with the center spring hanging, and I have yet to have any issue.

+1 for 2000 miles and no problems.

name='Fred H.' date='Sep 19 2006, 04:57 PM' post='153448']

I'm glad your back.

 

[sleddoc]

Darn WC stole my thunder...
Anyway, totally agree. Yamaha put those springs in for a reason. This thing isn't a 50cc scooter. A stuck throttle at just the right moment is baaaaad news. I honestly do not think most of us could hit the kill switch without a significant (in road speed terms) change in dynamics. Not only that, shutting off the engine abrubtly entering a turn is not "good" either.

How many of us really practice this, anyway?

-BD

Have you riden an 06 ?? If you release the center spring ( one turn ) it is perfect. There is nothing to get caught on there is just less tension on the spring.

 

[trfjr]

I don't know about the 06, but my 05 has a throttle return cable, so even with no spring tension I should be able to close the throttle. I have taken 1 turn out of the main spring and like the difference, although it left zero tension on it in the closed position.

 

[kurtfriedrich]

Darn WC stole my thunder...
Anyway, totally agree. Yamaha put those springs in for a reason. This thing isn't a 50cc scooter. A stuck throttle at just the right moment is baaaaad news. I honestly do not think most of us could hit the kill switch without a significant (in road speed terms) change in dynamics. Not only that, shutting off the engine abrubtly entering a turn is not "good" either.

How many of us really practice this, anyway?

-BD

Seems like this thread kinda died a year ago? Can more folks speak up about their experinence in letting the Throttle Return Spring slip one revolution? I sure don't like how much force the throttle takes.

Kurt

 

[red2kcbr]

I kept the throttle springs stock for the first year I had it. I was under the tank for a TBS and decided to slip the center spring one rotation. It reattached as expected after relieving one turn of tension. I really like the feel a lot better now. Good mod. YMMV.

I wouldn't want a loose connection just dangling down there to possibly get bound up, but taking off a little tension and hooking back up was an excellent idea.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>I just returned from a five day trip to Arkansas on my 06' AE. While on a spirited run down 341 I got a surprise. I was braking for a posted 30MPH corner and found that I wasn't slowing for the corner. :dribble: The throttle was stuck open.

Something doesn't add-up here? The FJR has a push-pull throttle assy. -- surely you could've rolled-off the throttle and the "push" cable would've closed the butterflys? Used-to-be, "stuck throttles" existed before Honda put 'push-pull' cables on early 750s (responding from a nasty law-suit). Also, all H-Ds used-to-be this way -- no throttle return spring (you either: rolled on, held steady, or rolled off). Millions of miles were ridden w/out throttle return springs.

Sounds to me: more a case of operator error than a case for equipment failure. Did you actually roll-off the throttle when slowing to an entry speed? Or, could the brakes have been applied while throttle was still twisted open?

Warchild: I can't say I've ever been a fan of dinking around the throttle mechanisms, whether it is simply unwinding/unhooking a spring, or the outright introduction of FOD in the throttle pulley area. Bad things could potentially happen,

+ 1 -- bad enough on any bike, let alone a 145hp one.....
Neither is (all important) throttle control taught well -- MSF gives it hardly a mention in their classes. They do, however, try to get the students to use the engine cut-off switch (kill-switch) all the time -- a good practice for all of us. If you use it enough -- maybe, when you really need it, it'll be readily available for you?

 

[Harald]

Seems like this thread kinda died a year ago? Can more folks speak up about their experinence in letting the Throttle Return Spring slip one revolution? I sure don't like how much force the throttle takes.Kurt

I rode my 07 home from the dealer during a freak traffic jamb on a saturday afternoon on Hwy 167. Stop and go for 25 miles on a brand new bike with a horribly stiff throttle that also had too much slack in it! Before my next ride I had the tank off and adjusted the throttle free play and released the center spring one turn. It works great and no problems for the 1000 miles I have on her now.

I did notice that when released one turn, the spring loop no longer has any tension on it and only loosely catches on the tab. Ultimately it would be best if the loop on the end of the spring were closed around the tab, but I couldn't get any pliers in there in a manner that would allow me to bend the spring. It'll require more disassembly to accomplish that task. I did fiddle around with the spring to see if there would be any way for it to come out of the tab and bind up. I can't see it happening. I don't doubt that the original poster had a problem, but I just can't visualize how this mod could cause a problem.

 

[ELP_JC]

Have you riden an 06 ?? If you release the center spring ( one turn ) it is perfect. There is nothing to get caught on there is just less tension on the spring.

That's absolutely correct on GenIIs, and my experience as well. It shows you have to know what you're doing before attempting any modifications to your motorcycle.

Furthermore, as it was already said, ALL modern bikes have positive throttle returns, meaning that if throttle is not truly stuck (rare), it can just be pushed closed if binding with something (like a loose spring). After O.P. declared the throttle 'stuck' for only a second or two, means it wasn't really stuck.

Bottom line is I'm not criticizing the O.P. for any mistakes (we all make mistakes), but to point out the spring modification well done is not going to cause any problems. I can't imagine enjoying this motorcycle with the stiff throttle from the factory; no way. But you should always check whatever you're modifying to make sure it's safe to operate the motorcycle that way; not all modifications will always be the same on all bikes. Just like Harald reported, his bike had the spring somewhat loose, but after careful analysis, he determined it wasn't going to be a problem. That's the kind of scrutiny needed when working on your steed. Later gang.

JC

 

[kurtfriedrich]

So I wanted to know if more people had done this, so I posted the question over in the FJR forum:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=26444

already have lots of good replies. I am going to do it.

Thanks,

Kurt

 

[kulwen]

good to hear from you Fred!
I've been holding off on many mods to the stock AE throttle stuff (barbarian mod, Fred jerky throttle fix wire, spring release) -- to understand the inputs to the AE computer a little better. If the throttle response changes due to less return spring, or the diameter change (Fred's fix), any change to throttle response that may 'trick' the YCCS computer -- may fix throttle issues, and create shifting issues on the AE.

If I had an A model -- Fred wire would be in, spring removed, etc... but I don't know exactly how the changes to the throttle affect shifting -- note: there's a sensor on the right hand throttle input on the AE model, and i know that's an input to the computer.

I still don't have definitive info on exactly what inputs affect shifting on the AE -- so i'll hold stock until i know more.

Fred helped me out on my new AE, we did the barbarian mod, fred h. shim, and dropped center spring changes.

All that I can say it that it's a brand new bike. MUCH, MUCH nicer to ride, smoother, I don't even think about the throttle in low-RPM 1st or 2nd gear situations anymore. I haven't seen it mess up the AE functions at all, and I'm not really sure that it could, based on what little I know from reading aricles about how YCCS works. :yahoo:

No regrets!

I have 13K on my AE with the center spring mod. Up to this point I have had no issues at with my throttle sticking. Holy smoke, I just realized I have put 15K on my bike in six month.

Can you link the shim mod?

 

[Herkypilot]

Seems like this thread kinda died a year ago? Can more folks speak up about their experinence in letting the Throttle Return Spring slip one revolution? I sure don't like how much force the throttle takes.Kurt

I did notice that when released one turn, the spring loop no longer has any tension on it and only loosely catches on the tab. Ultimately it would be best if the loop on the end of the spring were closed around the tab, but I couldn't get any pliers in there in a manner that would allow me to bend the spring. It'll require more disassembly to accomplish that task. I did fiddle around with the spring to see if there would be any way for it to come out of the tab and bind up. I can't see it happening. I don't doubt that the original poster had a problem, but I just can't visualize how this mod could cause a problem.

My '07 was the same way - let the spring go one turn and it was no longer in contact with the tang on the throttle body. I ended up re-stringing the spring after a G2 and MADCO throttle lock install because I no longer had a good positive throttle return.

Herkypilot

 

[odot]

I knew there was a reason howie was here.

 

[odot]

Uh oh! I am missing something again. Whats going to happen to my throttle spring thats going to make me have to change it or replace it? I already didnt pay attention about the ignition switch and it bit me!

Deep breath......

Okay. Not to worry. Your throttle spring isn't about it airmail itself to Santa Barbara. It's not gonna e'splode. Everything is fine.

There's just a large contingent of limp-wristed Feejer Pilots who can't handle the manly twist of the stock throttle and unwind the middle of the 3 throttle return springs by 1 revolution, effectively decreasing the throttle resistance some ladies'-blouse-wearing Nancies can't seem to deal with.

If you are happy with your throttle return tension, pay no attention to the guys in taffeta jumpers and drive the damn thing.

If you ARE unhappy with the tension, plug "+unwind+throttle+spring" into the "Search" function and read to your heart's content. There's enough there to keep you busy for DAYS!

Also if you are unhappy with the tension, you might want to check out THIS link.

 

[BrunDog]

I still don't think this is a good idea. Get a damn crampbuster and move on! My opinion, as wrong as I may be.

-BD