Won't start after valve adj

[KeithB]

Well, things were going very well. I zip-tied the cams to the cam chain, removed the intake cam and switched the shims as needed. I had numbered each cam cap with perm marker to make sure I put everything back together the same. Got it all back together, cut off the zip ties and rotated the engine by hand a few times. The pivotal mistake I made was I forgot to re-engage the cam chain tensioner, so about the 2nd time around, the camchain skipped in the intake cam. At that point, I had to remove & re-time the cams.

The 2nd problem was the both cam sprockets have the same markings. You have to read the manual very carefully to see that you use the arrows on the EX cam, but use the dash marks on the IN cam. You also need to have the #1 IN & EX valves pointing away from each other with an oil pinhole next to the cam sprocket pointed up & lined up with arrows on the #4 cam cap.

I used the arrows on both cams like on my other bikes, plus again forgot to release the cam chain tensioner, so it skipped again. Start over. Repeat this about 5 times late at night in a cold garage. Maybe I need to move further south... :lol:

It was probably when I was tightening the cams down while mis-aligned that I bent the valves against the pistons. Things didn't feel quite right so I stopped before tightening them down completely, but I think the damage was already done. Luckily, the lower engine was not moving when the damage occurred, so I don't suspect any problems there.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

A little info (for those who may wish to proceed down this road):

There's some common motorcycle (engines, in general) knowledge that needs to be acquired (often, on small single cylinder engines) that can/will be of great benefit.

One is: the cam lobes of any cylinder at TDC-firing will be hanging down (like ripe fruit on a branch) more-or-less down and away from each other. This little piece of info will hold you in good stead regardless of your detail knowledge of the marks. The marks are still required -- but, general knowledge of valve opening/closing sequence is important, too.

Study-up....!

Now...., on to slotted cam-sprockets and degree-ing cams (and what lobe-centers are best).... :blink:

 

[v65]

A little info (for those who may wish to proceed down this road):There's some common motorcycle (engines, in general) knowledge that needs to be acquired (often, on small single cylinder engines) that can/will be of great benefit.

One is: the cam lobes of any cylinder at TDC-firing will be hanging down (like ripe fruit on a branch) more-or-less down and away from each other. This little piece of info will hold you in good stead regardless of your detail knowledge of the marks. The marks are still required -- but, general knowledge of valve opening/closing sequence is important, too.

Study-up....!

Now...., on to slotted cam-sprockets and degree-ing cams (and what lobe-centers are best).... :blink:

There's a nice pic of the correct orientation for the cam lobes in the shop manual to boot.

 

[dsmack]

Keith ~ I am sitting here, feeling your pain! What an absolute Bummer...

Most importantly, for those of us on the sidelines through all this, is the frank and open way you have described how and why this all occurred. You taking the time to post this could very well save many of us the same fate! It has been strongly pointed out to us all that the cam chain tensioner is our friend!

Thanks for the information.

Hope you and your's will have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Don

 

[terrebandit]

Yeah Keith, thanks for the information you provided. Sorry about your misfortune but others will learn from it, including me. Now all I need is an FJR to put the lesson into practice.

 

[El Toro]

I am really sorry to hear about the problems with this valve clearance check. It will be a good learning experience, and its the right time of year for learning, but there's not much more to say except that I wish you well as you go through the fix.

I once bought a CB500 on ebay. It was over in Illinois, and I drove over to get it. It had been advertised as being near perfect. When I arrived, the owner turned out to be a graduate student in Education. He cranked the bike up, and it made some serious valve train and cam chain noises. Having worked in Honda service at the time the CB500 came out, I knew how they were supposed to sound. To make matters worse, it ran like the proverbial bag o' sh*t.

I asked him about it, and he said "Well, the first time we put it together, we bent the valves. I thought we had it right this time."

I told him "Nope."

We parted company and he got to spend more quality time with the CB500. I never did see him relist it.

 

[KeithB]

My thanks to all of you for your advice. The head is now in the hands of the Yamaha mechanic. I'll probably go ahead and let them put it all together (except the bodywork) so it can be warranteed. It will also go up for sale once it's back together because I'm picking up a 2009 Concours14 (red) after work today. Even though the soft valves pushed me over the top, it was the wind buffeting that I could never fully resolve that is the main reason for the switch. I did many 1000+ mile days just fine, but my head was always buzzing afterward. That never happened on any other bikes I've had in 30+ years of riding. I would often ride the GSXR instead just because of that.

It was great riding with the folks I met at the CFO in Eureka Springs earlier this year. I'm sure I'll see some of you down the road.

Keith.

 

[El Toro]

OUCH!

It makes me recall the old sign on the wall at the shop back in 1969...

Labor Rates

$12/hr

If you watch, $18/hr

If you help, $24/hr

If you tried to do it yourself first and are bringing it partially assembled, $40/hr

All's well that ends well. I think you'll enjoy the Kawasaki too. Its fun to try different things.

 

[El Toro]

Even though the soft valves pushed me over the top

One thing to keep in mind... there's nothing soft about the FJR's valves. If there were, they wouldn't hold up in the hostile environment where they operate.

We've sectioned a VFR800 in the lab as a demo so you can see the operation of the valves relative to the piston in one of the cylinders (wanted to show them how VTEC works). The clearance volume (the space above the piston at top dead center) is small. The valve timing is set up so that the intake valves actually follow the piston down in close proximity on the intake stroke, and the exhaust valves get chased by the piston as it moves up on the exhaust stroke. My point is that if you are off the mark on your cam timing by even one tooth, you can end up with interference. When you have interference, you will have bent valves. You've got mechanical advantage, sort of like a nut cracker, when the piston is at top dead center. I don't care what brand of bike you were messing with, if you got into the problem of bad valve timing, bent valves were inevitable.

 

[El Toro]

because I'm picking up a 2009 Concours14 (red) after work today.

I'm sorry to keep chiming in here at the end, but in the post with the pictures a comment was made about gasohol keeping things cleaner, and there's no reason to expect that.

Ethanol is not a detergent. If you want stuff to be as clean as possible, buy gasoline that's recognized as meeting high detergent content guidelines.

GM, Toyota, BMW, and others have a quality pact with several gasoline suppliers, and the program is summarized here

https://www.toptiergas.com

With a new Kawasaki, you can start fresh. The other thought to keep in mind with the new bike is that while there may be exceptions, most of the time a valve check leads to the conclusion that clearances are OK.

 

[Wicked Webby]

KeithB,

Thanks for sharing your attempt at the valves. It may save another members valves down the rode.

Good luck with your new ride. As far as gas goes.. Remember your new Connie requires premium only.

WW

 

[KeithB]

I finally stopped riding "Ruby" long enough to start work on the FJR. The dealer fixed the valves back in December, but I decided to put it back together. Things are looking good, except I can't get the plastic radiator shroud to stay in place long enough to put the radiator back on. It's the plastic piece that has holes so it can be held on by the top radiator bolts. It's such a clustf*ck of hoses, wires, and connectors that I can't arrange them such that the shroud will go into place. I can't find a diagram showing how things should be arranged.

Does anyone have pics or drawings of how things pass over, through, and under this thing? Any help would be very appreciated.

Also, just to let you know that I only use premium in all the bikes now. They also run much better, too. Funny, huh?

Thanks,

Keith.

 

[wfooshee]

Oh, goody, the ol' premium runs better thing.

Running premium in the Feej, and in anything else that doesn't need it, is dropping 20 or 30 cents a gallon for no reason. Run regular and send me the coin instead, if you just don't need it. I could use the cash.

Let somebody else fill it up and then see if you can identify the gas more accurately than flipping a coin.

 

[KeithB]

In my case, we're talking the Concours14 and the gxxr1000, and they need the higher octane than regular, I just got it via the 10% ethanol before. I don't bother with the cars since they don't need it. You're right, using higher octane than the bike's designed for is just a waste of money. In first car (a 64 Dodge), the gas mileage would actually go down with higher octane.

 

[RAVENRIDER]

KeithB,
Thanks for sharing your attempt at the valves. It may save another members valves down the rode.

WW

Well said, WW. I'm pretty good with the basics, but when I told a much more mechanically inclined friend of mine that I was thinking about messing around with the FJR, he said something to the effect of ...

"Murph, I love ya enough to tell you stay the f--- away from the engine."

As a San Francisco detective once said ...

"A man has got to know his limitations."

 

[KeithB]

Actually, I've done so many of the mechanical repairs & maintenance jobs, that I'm way ahead in the game. I've learned in life that you can accomplish a lot more in life by trying things others tell you that you can't do. I don't believe in limiting myself, it just takes a little longer for something new to be learned. This job is the first time I've removed the heads from any engine and it's actually been a lot easier that I expected.

I spent the last 35 years creating & fixing software & computer things, Getting my hands greasy is my diversion from that.

I found hose & wiring routing directions in the manual & will give it another try tomorrow. If anyone has anything that would help, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

Keith.