Twigg
Just an old, bald man!
I'm new here, so please forgive my many indiscretions. They are not deliberate and I'll learn.
I first registered for the Forum when it became the "place to be" to follow the progress of the Iron Butt Rally in 2011, and again in 2013.
I currently ride an elderly Yamaha Venture Royale. It is set up to allow me to be able to stay in the (Russell) seat as long as I can prop my eyelids open and feel safe. I'm happy to say that, over the last two years, it has morphed into a motorcycle that fits me like a Held glove that was designed to fit me better than it would fit anyone else. I can state, quite categorically, that it is the Best Touring Motorcycle in the World, right now, for me
We will skip over the sports bit, because it is to sports what fine sand is to a roller bearing.
So I read, with some amusement, the many pages of the thread about that silly magazine article about the "fastest sports tourer". Silly not because it didn't contain a grain of truth in there somewhere, but because fastest is about the dumbest criteria we could choose to measure a motorcycle, unless we have the enviable surname of Rossi, or something similar.
I am reading these threads, by the way, because recently someone held out the possibility that I might be able to buy a 2005 FJR at a reasonable price, so it pays me to investigate carefully before committing money I don't have. In the past I have owned both an FJ1200A and a Honda VFR750, so I am not averse to buying something with a decent pedigree, but it has to give me something my current bike cannot.
Well, I hear y'all laugh ... given what you ride now, that wouldn't be too hard! That is certainly true, but none of you has asked me what I want yet
What I want is the same, or better comfort than I currently have, and to be able to ride farther, faster and with less stress than is involved in keeping a 1986 behemoth rubber side down for anything up to twenty four hours at a time.
With that requirement, top speed is simply not an issue. All of the bikes mentioned would do that, indeed my Venture will easily top 100 mph, and it has cruise control, but only five gears. It has a bullet-proof engine, super-reliable shaft drive, but also a frame (steel, double-cradle), that twists in the middle when you hit the center-line of the road at anything over about 70 mph. That makes the ride interesting, but can occasionally put creases in the seat where Russell didn't intend there to be any.
So where do I look for the perfect motorcycle? Some suggest the finisher list of the Iron Butt Rally. Not bad, but it's a data-point not a Bible. To understand what that list represents means one needs to know how it was arrived at. One rider who could have won in 2011t crashed his BMW on the run-in. He did something similar last time out. One rider jumped up to second, on his FJR, by doing the freakin' impossible on the final leg ... was that the bike, or the rider, or did the bike allow the rider to get to Key West and still make it to the barn on time .. and would it have made a difference had a few top-placed guys not gone north?
So that list shows that FJRs are indeed capable, but there was an ST1100 in the top ten, and a Gold Wing that had an unfortunate incident that also would have bumped an FJR. There was even an ancient Yamaha that would have shocked the entire community had the poor guy not lost all his pictures ... God I felt for him!
Nonetheless, FJRs are performing flawlessly in Rallies and Rides all across the country, and the bottom line is that they DID take the top five places, so you can't discount that.
The thing I have always believed is simply that the Best Sports Tourer ... is the one you have. They can all manage "go to jail" speeds, and they can all do it all day long. The restriction isn't the bike, but the rider, their skill, determination and the risks and challenges that they are able to minimize.
So why should I change my motorcycle? I mean, it has a BBG and SS1000. It has several times managed 1000 miles in a day, under rally conditions, and it has podiumed a few times even when matched against most of the other bikes on that "fastest" list. It was cheap, and it is paid for
The problem is that I can't extract any more performance from it. I'm not talking about speed, but about the mental and physical effort it takes to "keep it straight, and keep it 80". By comparison, virtually every bike on the aforementioned list will go farther, faster and with considerably less effort by the rider than will my 800 lb monster. It's the rider input that matters most here, because the less stressful the ride, the longer I can manage it for, and the further the wheels will turn.
Of all the choices out there, the three that appear to be "best-suited" are the Honda ST1300, the BMW R1200RT and the Yamaha FJR1300. The Kawasaki would sneak in too, but it does appear to have fewer fans than the others, a smaller knowledge base although it is indeed quite stonkin' value for money. I haven't completely ruled it out, but no one has offered me a very cheap one
For me the BMW has two fatal flaws. It is very expensive, and the reliability is questionable. When you are 2000 miles from home and you only have money for the gas, it kinda matters that you trust your bike to get you there. I'm sure the BMW would, but I am more sure that either the Honda or Yamaha would. When I am LD Riding I don't want ANY distractions at all. Nothing preying on my mind, nothing that detracts from the simple act of riding the bike. For now, that and the cost rules out the Beemer.
Torque matters. Torque means fewer gear changes. Five gears helps. Fuel injection (which I have never had on a bike) matters. It means reliable performance even when well-loaded, when the bonus location is Pikes Peak. Cruise Control is something I never saw the need for on a bike, until I had it and would now not want to go back. An adjustable windshield and decent weather protection matter. Good fuel economy and a generous supply matters. Neither of the two remaining machines has a tank big enough, so they are even on that score.
I don't need "character". What I want is competence, and for that competence to be as unobtrusive as possible. The ST probably, according to reports, has the edge there, but I am a motorcyclist and sometimes I just want to have fun. That might tip it towards the FJR.
Ergonomics tend to favour the ST too, but there is little it offers that cannot be matched by the Yamaha, with maybe a set of bar-risers, decent seat and maybe lowered footpegs. Either way, both would be better by far than what I have now. I can see not good reason why I couldn't set about making either bike the most comfortable place in the world for me, and that's the goal.
Longevity and reliability ... Much of a muchness. Honda has legendary reliability, and Yamaha FJRs are going around the clock with no apparent major faults. This helps because higher mileage bikes are ridiculously cheap, yet most have so much life left in them that you really don't need to worry too much about the mileage.
So we are back where we started, if any of you had the fortitude to remain with me this long. I have been offered a 2005 FJR, and if I can sell the two bikes I currently have, it will be sitting in my garage soon. They tell me it leans a little more "sporty" than its direct competitors, but I can fix the riding position (I am pretty average in size and shape). I don't care about the top speed, or the 0 to 60 or 100 times. I do care about the acceleration between 50 and 90 mph. Be nice if it was fairly rapid without having to make more than one downshift.
Everything else I can tweak.
Am I on the right track here? Have I missed anything obvious? Will I actually like this bike?
Yeah ... too long, didn't read ... sorry
I first registered for the Forum when it became the "place to be" to follow the progress of the Iron Butt Rally in 2011, and again in 2013.
I currently ride an elderly Yamaha Venture Royale. It is set up to allow me to be able to stay in the (Russell) seat as long as I can prop my eyelids open and feel safe. I'm happy to say that, over the last two years, it has morphed into a motorcycle that fits me like a Held glove that was designed to fit me better than it would fit anyone else. I can state, quite categorically, that it is the Best Touring Motorcycle in the World, right now, for me
So I read, with some amusement, the many pages of the thread about that silly magazine article about the "fastest sports tourer". Silly not because it didn't contain a grain of truth in there somewhere, but because fastest is about the dumbest criteria we could choose to measure a motorcycle, unless we have the enviable surname of Rossi, or something similar.
I am reading these threads, by the way, because recently someone held out the possibility that I might be able to buy a 2005 FJR at a reasonable price, so it pays me to investigate carefully before committing money I don't have. In the past I have owned both an FJ1200A and a Honda VFR750, so I am not averse to buying something with a decent pedigree, but it has to give me something my current bike cannot.
Well, I hear y'all laugh ... given what you ride now, that wouldn't be too hard! That is certainly true, but none of you has asked me what I want yet
What I want is the same, or better comfort than I currently have, and to be able to ride farther, faster and with less stress than is involved in keeping a 1986 behemoth rubber side down for anything up to twenty four hours at a time.
With that requirement, top speed is simply not an issue. All of the bikes mentioned would do that, indeed my Venture will easily top 100 mph, and it has cruise control, but only five gears. It has a bullet-proof engine, super-reliable shaft drive, but also a frame (steel, double-cradle), that twists in the middle when you hit the center-line of the road at anything over about 70 mph. That makes the ride interesting, but can occasionally put creases in the seat where Russell didn't intend there to be any.
So where do I look for the perfect motorcycle? Some suggest the finisher list of the Iron Butt Rally. Not bad, but it's a data-point not a Bible. To understand what that list represents means one needs to know how it was arrived at. One rider who could have won in 2011t crashed his BMW on the run-in. He did something similar last time out. One rider jumped up to second, on his FJR, by doing the freakin' impossible on the final leg ... was that the bike, or the rider, or did the bike allow the rider to get to Key West and still make it to the barn on time .. and would it have made a difference had a few top-placed guys not gone north?
So that list shows that FJRs are indeed capable, but there was an ST1100 in the top ten, and a Gold Wing that had an unfortunate incident that also would have bumped an FJR. There was even an ancient Yamaha that would have shocked the entire community had the poor guy not lost all his pictures ... God I felt for him!
Nonetheless, FJRs are performing flawlessly in Rallies and Rides all across the country, and the bottom line is that they DID take the top five places, so you can't discount that.
The thing I have always believed is simply that the Best Sports Tourer ... is the one you have. They can all manage "go to jail" speeds, and they can all do it all day long. The restriction isn't the bike, but the rider, their skill, determination and the risks and challenges that they are able to minimize.
So why should I change my motorcycle? I mean, it has a BBG and SS1000. It has several times managed 1000 miles in a day, under rally conditions, and it has podiumed a few times even when matched against most of the other bikes on that "fastest" list. It was cheap, and it is paid for
The problem is that I can't extract any more performance from it. I'm not talking about speed, but about the mental and physical effort it takes to "keep it straight, and keep it 80". By comparison, virtually every bike on the aforementioned list will go farther, faster and with considerably less effort by the rider than will my 800 lb monster. It's the rider input that matters most here, because the less stressful the ride, the longer I can manage it for, and the further the wheels will turn.
Of all the choices out there, the three that appear to be "best-suited" are the Honda ST1300, the BMW R1200RT and the Yamaha FJR1300. The Kawasaki would sneak in too, but it does appear to have fewer fans than the others, a smaller knowledge base although it is indeed quite stonkin' value for money. I haven't completely ruled it out, but no one has offered me a very cheap one
For me the BMW has two fatal flaws. It is very expensive, and the reliability is questionable. When you are 2000 miles from home and you only have money for the gas, it kinda matters that you trust your bike to get you there. I'm sure the BMW would, but I am more sure that either the Honda or Yamaha would. When I am LD Riding I don't want ANY distractions at all. Nothing preying on my mind, nothing that detracts from the simple act of riding the bike. For now, that and the cost rules out the Beemer.
Torque matters. Torque means fewer gear changes. Five gears helps. Fuel injection (which I have never had on a bike) matters. It means reliable performance even when well-loaded, when the bonus location is Pikes Peak. Cruise Control is something I never saw the need for on a bike, until I had it and would now not want to go back. An adjustable windshield and decent weather protection matter. Good fuel economy and a generous supply matters. Neither of the two remaining machines has a tank big enough, so they are even on that score.
I don't need "character". What I want is competence, and for that competence to be as unobtrusive as possible. The ST probably, according to reports, has the edge there, but I am a motorcyclist and sometimes I just want to have fun. That might tip it towards the FJR.
Ergonomics tend to favour the ST too, but there is little it offers that cannot be matched by the Yamaha, with maybe a set of bar-risers, decent seat and maybe lowered footpegs. Either way, both would be better by far than what I have now. I can see not good reason why I couldn't set about making either bike the most comfortable place in the world for me, and that's the goal.
Longevity and reliability ... Much of a muchness. Honda has legendary reliability, and Yamaha FJRs are going around the clock with no apparent major faults. This helps because higher mileage bikes are ridiculously cheap, yet most have so much life left in them that you really don't need to worry too much about the mileage.
So we are back where we started, if any of you had the fortitude to remain with me this long. I have been offered a 2005 FJR, and if I can sell the two bikes I currently have, it will be sitting in my garage soon. They tell me it leans a little more "sporty" than its direct competitors, but I can fix the riding position (I am pretty average in size and shape). I don't care about the top speed, or the 0 to 60 or 100 times. I do care about the acceleration between 50 and 90 mph. Be nice if it was fairly rapid without having to make more than one downshift.
Everything else I can tweak.
Am I on the right track here? Have I missed anything obvious? Will I actually like this bike?
Yeah ... too long, didn't read ... sorry
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