Audiovox Cruise Control-Problem Solved?

[ionbeam]

This is an automotive cruise control intended for cars and trucks with much slower ignition firing rates. It has to work on older vehicles as well as newer one. The manual only says to hook the blue wire to the ground side of the coil and select Coil or ECU. In some vehicles the ground side of the coil may either be a point set or the output of an ignition module. This would constitute the 'Coil' selection for DIP switch position 7. If the ignition system has an ignition module, the module would be receiving a square shaped pulse of some duty cycle from the PCM/ECU. This relatively clean pulse will drive the ignition module which isolates the switching of coil’s primary winding. You would select the ECU position in this case.

The FJR's ECU is directly grounding the negative side of the coil via the orange and gray/red wire. The kick back voltage from the primary side of the coil can be pretty wild looking with a point breaker system. The FJR ECU will make some effort to snub the back EMF as well as dampen the ringing.

The Servo's only active component is a modified error amplifier style electrical motor controller. The AVCC servo receives the coil/ECU signal, then with only minor filtering and voltage clamping by passive devices the signal is fed directly to the servo's controller. I don't have the chip data sheet for the proprietary servo chip but I can speculate that the coil/ECU DIP switch sets up different forms of internal digital filtering for the signal.

It is good design practice to place the signal source as close to the controller as possible, especially in 'dirty' electrical environments like a motorcycle. I'm betting that the signal on a shortened blue wire, tapped as close to the ECU as possible is a much cleaner signal. Depending on the amount of electrical dampening done by the ECU, the signal is more likely to resemble a square wave than a normal ringing DQ signal off of the coil's ground wire. I have PMed a couple of people some screen shots of a point ignition wave vs an ECU signal that triggers an ignition module. I've got them up on Photobucket if anyone is interested.

At some point I guess that Fred and I could have an O’scope session and see if there are any differences in the way the Gen I and Gen II ECUs fire the coils.

 

[Fred W]

At some point I guess that Fred and I could have an O’scope session and see if there are any differences in the way the Gen I and Gen II ECUs fire the coils.

Oh, we could. I have a digital storage scope right here. But I have no 2nd gen. Mine's an '05.

Now if we can convince that Skip character to pony up a Benjamin for a cruze control we could have us a picnic. BTW, I'll buy the Sam Adams.

 

[timalan]

At some point I guess that Fred and I could have an O’scope session and see if there are any differences in the way the Gen I and Gen II ECUs fire the coils.

Oh, we could. I have a digital storage scope right here. But I have no 2nd gen. Mine's an '05.

Now if we can convince that Skip character to pony up a Benjamin for a cruze control we could have us a picnic. BTW, I'll buy the Sam Adams.

gosh if mine doesn't work how far would I be able to ride to join the O scope session. That'd be fun.

I'm just now loading up my bike and I am going to take the highspeed turnpike to Joplin with rolling hills and the High temp today, It should induce a failure. See ya back here in a couple three hours.

BTW are the coils in the same spot? GenI and GenII? Maybe better shielding on the Spark plug wires? Gen I.

 

[timalan]

If we still have a failure mode I'll take home the recording O scope and ride with it and see what happens.

I hope you don't have a failure mode, but that would be a cool piece of information to have.

I am saying have a very nice trip.

And Thanks again, Just got back, 130 miles. I ran up hills and down hills. Long not so steep ones. Short steep ones. Used the Accel button to take me up to 95 and hold, coast back down to 75 and hold. resumes from 30 back to 75. Got bored on the interstate so I took back roads home. Up hills, around corners, Through small towns. works at 25 MPH as well as 95. I could not be happier. And all fully loaded with camping gear and wife. saddle bags empty.

Rfulcher, I believe you've done it.

Now if everyone with an intermittent Gen II Cruise will make said changes in this thread to confirm........

I don't get it but hey HPIFM!

 

[rfulcher]

:clapping: Great news :clapping: , hope mine works as well over the next few days. I will probably drive around 1500+ miles in all kinds of conditions between tomorrow and Sunday.

rfulcher

If we still have a failure mode I'll take home the recording O scope and ride with it and see what happens.

I hope you don't have a failure mode, but that would be a cool piece of information to have.

I am saying have a very nice trip.

And Thanks again, Just got back, 130 miles. I ran up hills and down hills. Long not so steep ones. Short steep ones. Used the Accel button to take me up to 95 and hold, coast back down to 75 and hold. resumes from 30 back to 75. Got bored on the interstate so I took back roads home. Up hills, around corners, Through small towns. works at 25 MPH as well as 95. I could not be happier. And all fully loaded with camping gear and wife. saddle bags empty.

Rfulcher, I believe you've done it.

Now if everyone with an intermittent Gen II Cruise will make said changes in this thread to confirm........

I don't get it but hey HPIFM!

 

[CHRIS_D]

If we still have a failure mode I'll take home the recording O scope and ride with it and see what happens.

I hope you don't have a failure mode, but that would be a cool piece of information to have.

I am saying have a very nice trip.

And Thanks again, Just got back, 130 miles. I ran up hills and down hills. Long not so steep ones. Short steep ones. Used the Accel button to take me up to 95 and hold, coast back down to 75 and hold. resumes from 30 back to 75. Got bored on the interstate so I took back roads home. Up hills, around corners, Through small towns. works at 25 MPH as well as 95. I could not be happier. And all fully loaded with camping gear and wife. saddle bags empty.

Rfulcher, I believe you've done it.

Now if everyone with an intermittent Gen II Cruise will make said changes in this thread to confirm........

I don't get it but hey HPIFM!

I think you guys did it!!! :yahoo:

timalan,

I'm actually leaving 6/16 (on the bike ) to OKC for a week long training class at FAA Academy. If you're available would you be at all interested in helping me install AVCC on my bike the weekend of 6/21. I know this is being forward however, I would be happy to pay you, treat you to dinner and even supply the beer (yes, the real beer not that 3.2 crap). I been desperate to install this cruise, but just haven't been able to find the time plus I have been a little worried that it wouldn't work. Also it would really be great to have someone help who has done it before.

 

[timalan]

If we still have a failure mode I'll take home the recording O scope and ride with it and see what happens.

I think you guys did it!!! :yahoo:

timalan,

I'm actually leaving 6/16 (on the bike ) to OKC for a week long training class at FAA Academy. If you're available would you be at all interested in helping me install AVCC on my bike the weekend of 6/21. I know this is being forward however, I would be happy to pay you, treat you to dinner and even supply the beer (yes, the real beer not that 3.2 crap). I been desperate to install this cruise, but just haven't been able to find the time plus I have been a little worried that it wouldn't work. Also it would really be great to have someone help who has done it before.

I think rfulcher fixed it by just switching wires and switches and just pure trouble shooting???? :yahoo: :yahoo:

I think if I am not out of town.... I could maybe come up with something. I think maybe a tech session. There is a couple of OKIE guys who want to do this install. I did mine completely different than most here though. I don't really want to wrench on other peoples babies but, I would let you open up my bike and use it as a road map. And would assist in anyway possible. I feel comfortable doing my own work, If I screw something up its mine. If I screw up yours???? I feel stupid. and guilty.

We would have to come up with a good Garage. Mine is tooooo small. And of course I would have to get permission from my family to leave them for a weekend.

My install Mounted the cable different. I used the throttle adaptor that goes on the barrel cable end (like the bike). It is a loop of wire with a ball on the end. I didn't take out the fuel rails. I just unhooked the throttle pull cable. Put the loop ball thing on and hooked the cable back up. I also used a servo pulley from a pitch trim cable on a Jet of some kind. Modified for the ball chain size. I really wish I had a camera to take pictures. my cable pulls straight back from the engine top and around the corner on the pulley.

anyways. I'll explain with pictures when I get my camera back.

Tim

 

[Fred W]

My install Mounted the cable different. I used the throttle adaptor that goes on the barrel cable end (like the bike). It is a loop of wire with a ball on the end. I didn't take out the fuel rails. I just unhooked the throttle pull cable. Put the loop ball thing on and hooked the cable back up. I also used a servo pulley from a pitch trim cable on a Jet of some kind. Modified for the ball chain size. I really wish I had a camera to take pictures. my cable pulls straight back from the engine top and around the corner on the pulley.anyways. I'll explain with pictures when I get my camera back.

Tim

I really wish I could see how you did this. That is the only thing remaining on my install that I have not completed (throttle attachment). Not because I'm leery of it. It seems easy enough to attach the ball chain to the throttle stop tab as so many others have. It just seems a bit less than elegant.

The wire loop you used is how all the old Concours guys used to attach them, but there was considerably more room undser the gas tank on that bike to allow an easy, fairly long, straight shot at the throttle bell-crank.

I'm not sure yet how I'll do mine.

 

[ionbeam]

...the only thing remaining on my install that I have not completed (throttle attachment)....It seems easy enough to attach the ball chain to the throttle stop tab as so many others have. It just seems a bit less than elegant....I'm not sure yet how I'll do mine.

The truly fearless would disconnect the ECU and battery, then in one short quick TICK arc weld a ring to the throttle stop. I'm not fearless. I had Good Wife hold the throttle open and I used a very long jobbers drill bit to make the mounting hole. I was able to do this with the fuel rail still in place. While not creative or innovative it was quick, still works and was only moderately painful to do.

What did Smitty do in all his installs?

timalan, ya gots ta get a digicam or even a cell phone cam and show us what you did! Hobby shops are a wonderful place to pick up parts for imaginering.

 

[CHRIS_D]

If we still have a failure mode I'll take home the recording O scope and ride with it and see what happens.

I think you guys did it!!! :yahoo:

timalan,

I'm actually leaving 6/16 (on the bike ) to OKC for a week long training class at FAA Academy. If you're available would you be at all interested in helping me install AVCC on my bike the weekend of 6/21. I know this is being forward however, I would be happy to pay you, treat you to dinner and even supply the beer (yes, the real beer not that 3.2 crap). I been desperate to install this cruise, but just haven't been able to find the time plus I have been a little worried that it wouldn't work. Also it would really be great to have someone help who has done it before.

I think rfulcher fixed it by just switching wires and switches and just pure trouble shooting???? :yahoo: :yahoo:

I think if I am not out of town.... I could maybe come up with something. I think maybe a tech session. There is a couple of OKIE guys who want to do this install. I did mine completely different than most here though. I don't really want to wrench on other peoples babies but, I would let you open up my bike and use it as a road map. And would assist in anyway possible. I feel comfortable doing my own work, If I screw something up its mine. If I screw up yours???? I feel stupid. and guilty.

We would have to come up with a good Garage. Mine is tooooo small. And of course I would have to get permission from my family to leave them for a weekend.

My install Mounted the cable different. I used the throttle adaptor that goes on the barrel cable end (like the bike). It is a loop of wire with a ball on the end. I didn't take out the fuel rails. I just unhooked the throttle pull cable. Put the loop ball thing on and hooked the cable back up. I also used a servo pulley from a pitch trim cable on a Jet of some kind. Modified for the ball chain size. I really wish I had a camera to take pictures. my cable pulls straight back from the engine top and around the corner on the pulley.

anyways. I'll explain with pictures when I get my camera back.

Tim

Tim,

Sounds good . I understand what you're saying about working on other peoples bikes, and I sure wouldn't expect you to do any work. However I sure would appreciate the guidance and any short cuts you may have. I unfortunately wouldn't be able supply a garage, or even many tools for that matter, since I'll be riding in from from GA. Yes , I know... what good am I . However, I do have a digital camera that I could bring. If your interested in doing this let me know ASAP, so that I can get AVCC on order.

By the way, would you know what else I may need to order (other than AVCC itself) to install the cruise?

Thanks!!

 

[timalan]

If we still have a failure mode I'll take home the recording O scope and ride with it and see what happens.

I think you guys did it!!! :yahoo:

timalan,

I'm actually leaving 6/16 (on the bike ) to OKC for a week long training class at FAA Academy. If you're available would you be at all interested in helping me install AVCC on my bike the weekend of 6/21. I know this is being forward however, I would be happy to pay you, treat you to dinner and even supply the beer (yes, the real beer not that 3.2 crap). I been desperate to install this cruise, but just haven't been able to find the time plus I have been a little worried that it wouldn't work. Also it would really be great to have someone help who has done it before.

I think rfulcher fixed it by just switching wires and switches and just pure trouble shooting???? :yahoo: :yahoo:

I think if I am not out of town.... I could maybe come up with something. I think maybe a tech session. There is a couple of OKIE guys who want to do this install. I did mine completely different than most here though. I don't really want to wrench on other peoples babies but, I would let you open up my bike and use it as a road map. And would assist in anyway possible. I feel comfortable doing my own work, If I screw something up its mine. If I screw up yours???? I feel stupid. and guilty.

We would have to come up with a good Garage. Mine is tooooo small. And of course I would have to get permission from my family to leave them for a weekend.

My install Mounted the cable different. I used the throttle adaptor that goes on the barrel cable end (like the bike). It is a loop of wire with a ball on the end. I didn't take out the fuel rails. I just unhooked the throttle pull cable. Put the loop ball thing on and hooked the cable back up. I also used a servo pulley from a pitch trim cable on a Jet of some kind. Modified for the ball chain size. I really wish I had a camera to take pictures. my cable pulls straight back from the engine top and around the corner on the pulley.

anyways. I'll explain with pictures when I get my camera back.

Tim

Tim,

Sounds good . I understand what you're saying about working on other peoples bikes, and I sure wouldn't expect you to do any work. However I sure would appreciate the guidance and any short cuts you may have. I unfortunately wouldn't be able supply a garage, or even many tools for that matter, since I'll be riding in from from GA. Yes , I know... what good am I . However, I do have a digital camera that I could bring. If your interested in doing this let me know ASAP, so that I can get AVCC on order.

By the way, would you know what else I may need to order (other than AVCC itself) to install the cruise?

Thanks!!

I'll contact some fellow Okies with Garages and see if we can come up with four or so bikes..... to do. If they are interested. I will collect aircraft trim pulleys, (if you wanna go that route.) Drilling and installing that thin on the tang/stop works to. I was just looking for a short cut..... and wife says I can have the weekend if we can find a garage willing member. I am good at guidance and would be happy to Help do the work.

I will try to get some photo's this weekend of what I did for those interested and I'll post em in a new subject.

 

[Inlaw1]

Well, this certainly sounds positive! Could it be? At last we have a solution to the GEN II bikes AVCC glitch?

Mine being one of the problem children, I will go in and first just change the #7 switch (as soon as I find time to devote). If that doesn't do it, I'll re-route the wire to the ECU and see if I get the same positive results.

Good job sticking with this Fulcher. If this is the fix, your owed many a beer!

 

[mdisher]

Ooooh, does this mean Smitty will reconsider doing installs? IF so I'm ready to add one

 

[Stacey]

Smitty done an install for me on an 08 just a few weeks ago and it went great. I had pursued him

to do the install and told him that I would pay him to do it regardless if it worked or not. My logic was

that if it didn't work then I could troubleshoot it until I could get it to work. I have an Electrical Engineering

background and trouble shoot servo/motion control systems for Rockwell Automation so I've got a little experience.

Has anyone been able to determine if the switch setting or the signal wire relocation ( or combination of both together)

has been the fix for applications that were having problems????

Thanks,

Stacey Kennedy

 

[rfulcher]

After a year of frustration nothing made a difference until I shortened and moved the signal wire to the orange wire at the ECU. This was the first thing with a positive effect, however this only helped enough for the cruise control to work on the flats. When first tested it worked for over 50 miles on the flats but a false release occurred at the first and almost any change in elevation. After this significant but still inadequate improvement I changed DIP switch 7 to OFF and the problem was completely resolved.

I suspect that changing the blue signal wire location improved the quality of the signal and I think this should be standard practice for this reason alone. However the problem was not completely solved until DIP switch 7 was set to OFF. It would an easy interesting experiment for someone with the problem to leave the blue wire at the coil and only change the DIP switch. Mine works great now so I will leave this to someone else.

Ross

Smitty done an install for me on an 08 just a few weeks ago and it went great. I had pursued himto do the install and told him that I would pay him to do it regardless if it worked or not. My logic was

that if it didn't work then I could troubleshoot it until I could get it to work. I have an Electrical Engineering

background and trouble shoot servo/motion control systems for Rockwell Automation so I've got a little experience.

Has anyone been able to determine if the switch setting or the signal wire relocation ( or combination of both together)

has been the fix for applications that were having problems????

Thanks,

Stacey Kennedy

 

[rfulcher]

Just got back from a 900 mile trip to the Smoky Mountains. The AVCC in my 07 functioned flawlessly for the entire trip. I did one 100-mile stretch of interstate without stopping with 75+ mph average speed, multiple climbs, and temps over 100 degrees. The cruise control worked perfectly without a single false release. There were no false releases. By speedometer it looked accurate (+-)1-2 mph. By GPS the speed may have varied -3 or +2 mph when transitioning between uphill and downhill slopes. On long steady elevation changes or on the flats it was +-1 mph. :yahoo: As far as I am concerned the problem with my AVCC is solved :yahoo:

 

[BuilderBob]

Just got back from a 900 mile trip to the Smoky Mountains. The AVCC in my 07 functioned flawlessly for the entire trip.

Congrats! And thank you for your persistence and determination to find a solution. I'll be making this change to my AVCC soon.

 

[CHRIS_D]

Just got back from a 900 mile trip to the Smoky Mountains. The AVCC in my 07 functioned flawlessly for the entire trip. I did one 100-mile stretch of interstate without stopping with 75+ mph average speed, multiple climbs, and temps over 100 degrees. The cruise control worked perfectly without a single false release. There were no false releases. By speedometer it looked accurate (+-)1-2 mph. By GPS the speed may have varied -3 or +2 mph when transitioning between uphill and downhill slopes. On long steady elevation changes or on the flats it was +-1 mph. :yahoo: As far as I am concerned the problem with my AVCC is solved :yahoo:

Ross,

I really appreciate all your hard work and also making me confident to buy one now!! :clapping:

There has been so much info on this; if you get a chance would you mind filling in the wiring placement and dip switch setting below. I just want to be on the same page and do the install right the first time.

AVCC's Wiring>>>TO>>>FJR (color/location)

#1 - BROWN - IGNITION POWER>>>>>>???

#2 - GREY - SPEED>>>>>>>>>>>>>>???

#3 - RED - BRAKE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>???

#4 - PURPLE - BRAKE>>>>>>>>>>>>> ???

#5 - (NOT USED)

#6 - YELLOW - RESUME>>>>>>>>>>> (Yellow) on included Control Switch

#7 - (NOT USED)

#8 - GREEN - SET>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Green) on included Control Swtich

#9 - BLACK - GROUND >>>>>>>>>>>>(Black) Battery Ground

#10 - BLUE - TACH.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>????

Dip Switch Settings: (Are these correct???????)

SW1 (PPM = 8K)= ON

SW2 (PPM = 8K)= ON

SW3 (SPEED SIGNAL=TACH ONLY)= OFF

SW4 (SENSITIVITY=LOW)= ON

SW5 (SENSITIVITY=LOW)= OFF

SW6 (CONTROL SWITCH=NORM. OPEN)= OFF (using the supplied switch)

SW7 (TACH SOURCE SELECT=COIL)= ON

THANKS!!!!!!

 

[Inlaw1]

It would an easy interesting experiment for someone with the problem to leave the blue wire at the coil and only change the DIP switch.

As I stated in my reply above, when I have time to dedicate to taking the bike apart (should be this next week) to get to the servo this is what I intend on doing. I will first change just the switch setting to see if that solves the problem. If not, then I'll move the wire from the coil to the ECU.

I do have one concern: I thought I had read to NOT shorten the blue wire at all? Your stating you shortened the wire, I assume you shortened any excess that was left after running the wire to the ECU, leaving in the fattened part (diode / resister / whatever)? If you did shorten the wire on both ends, how did you shorten it on the servo end?

 

[rfulcher]

I shortened the blue wire at both ends and left the resistor in the middle. I used a bullet connector between the resistor and the servo with just a couple of inches between the servo and resistor and just a couple of inches slack between the resistor and orange wire at the ECU. I could have soldered the connection and may still do this when I clean up the wiring.

It would an easy interesting experiment for someone with the problem to leave the blue wire at the coil and only change the DIP switch.

As I stated in my reply above, when I have time to dedicate to taking the bike apart (should be this next week) to get to the servo this is what I intend on doing. I will first change just the switch setting to see if that solves the problem. If not, then I'll move the wire from the coil to the ECU.

I do have one concern: I thought I had read to NOT shorten the blue wire at all? Your stating you shortened the wire, I assume you shortened any excess that was left after running the wire to the ECU, leaving in the fattened part (diode / resister / whatever)? If you did shorten the wire on both ends, how did you shorten it on the servo end?