It's interesting to read these comments from you and Jasen. To me they are reminiscent of the types of things we used to hear from car drivers when ABS was first introduced ("I'd rather be in control", etc.). It wasn't stated expressly in the IIHS study referenced at the start of this thread, but I suspect that it was partly intended to address these sentiments. The people at the IIHS had probably heard similar statements and decided to see what the evidence says. Their conclusion is that overall, taking into account riders of all abilities, and not just experienced riders like you guys, ABS + linked brakes = fewer collisions and lower medical bills than just ABS alone.I feel like gixxerjasen about the linked brakes. I'd rather make my own decision. I know the linked brakes are there to take care of people who don't know how to or refuse to use the front, but comparing the plumbing for the brakes on my ZRX to the plumbing and electronics on the FJR just makes me shake my head in wonder.
A piped and jetted ZRX with about the same horsepower, 150 pounds lighter and an experienced rider? Yes. Really.Wait. A ZRX tried to lose an FJR on 341? Really?
No doubt. Vehicles and machinery of all sorts are designed to keep the least capable among is from making stupid mistakes. And maybe that's worthwhile. We could debate that from now on and settle nothing or change nobody's minds. I just know I look at the brake lines on the FJR or my previous Honda, and the thought of actually working on it frightens me to the coreIt's interesting to read these comments from you and Jasen. To me they are reminiscent of the types of things we used to hear from car drivers when ABS was first introduced ("I'd rather be in control", etc.). It wasn't stated expressly in the IIHS study referenced at the start of this thread, but I suspect that it was partly intended to address these sentiments. The people at the IIHS had probably heard similar statements and decided to see what the evidence says. Their conclusion is that overall, taking into account riders of all abilities, and not just experienced riders like you guys, ABS + linked brakes = fewer collisions and lower medical bills than just ABS alone.I feel like gixxerjasen about the linked brakes. I'd rather make my own decision. I know the linked brakes are there to take care of people who don't know how to or refuse to use the front, but comparing the plumbing for the brakes on my ZRX to the plumbing and electronics on the FJR just makes me shake my head in wonder.
I will say that it's worth noting, however, that the IIHS doesn't say anything about complexity vs. simplicity/cost of production/maintenance, etc. They're only concerned with on-road impacts and medical bills.
I'm sure there will be more studies done and further advances in technology, but if I had to bet I'd say linked brakes are here to stay for a good long while.
The FJR isn't a sports bike. Even with maximum braking on a perfect surface, you can't lift the rear wheel, so there is always some retardation available from the rear brake. This proportion increases on less-than-perfect surfaces (obviously with less overall retardation).
I took the same class in similar conditions a couple weeks ago and the instructor jokingly commented that I was "cheating" since I had a great ABS system. I stopped faster and smoother than anyone else there and my bike was one of the heaviest.
Actually, I seriously doubt that this (bolded) statement is true. If it was, why would they also apply the rear brake when you yank on the front one? Plus when you just stomp the rear brake pedal it only puts a fraction of the available brake effort on up at the front wheel. No I really think they are trying to design the most effective braking system, period. If they were really trying to make it idiot proof they could have both wheels operated fully by a single pedal or lever or both.I feel like gixxerjasen about the linked brakes. I'd rather make my own decision. I know the linked brakes are there to take care of people who don't know how to or refuse to use the front, but comparing the plumbing for the brakes on my ZRX to the plumbing and electronics on the FJR just makes me shake my head in wonder.
Or you could buy a superior 1st gen w/ ABS. 2 pads per caliper and no pesky linked braking.My way means we'd only have to buy two pads per caliper.
Since you can activate the ABS on the front wheel on a good road surface with just the front brake lever, you have 100% front braking available without any "help" from the rear. All the linking from the rear does is to allow extra retardation of the bike when using the rear brake.
Sometimes "just a little" is just the right amount, particularly when it comes to braking.
It is slightly more complicated than that.... the metering valve and proportioning valve come into play depending on pedal pressure as I mentioned in my previous post.........Since you can activate the ABS on the front wheel on a good road surface with just the front brake lever, you have 100% front braking available without any "help" from the rear. All the linking from the rear does is to allow extra retardation of the bike when using the rear brake.
As for the 1/3 (or 1/4), making the assumption that the designed hydraulic pressure for front and rear brakes is similar, the piston diameter of the linked pads is significantly less than that of the three "front" pairs (just visible in the pic below), so the pad force on the disc will be much less than that of each of the three "front" pads.
(Click on image for larger view)
