FJRF009.2: "Intermittent Ground Wire Connection"

[allrider]

I just got off the phone with Yamamma and told them i have a Brodie harness installed. They said bring it to a dealer with the receipt for the harness, have it checked out by them and I may be able to get some sort of reimbursement, if they feel it was done good enough that they can put their stamp of approval on it.

I'll keep y'all posted.

Anyone else out there going to do the same thing please post your results.

 

[fjr183]

I was debating whether to start a new thread since my situation may be somewhat unique.

When the whole ground spider issue came up, I decided to be proactive and not wait for mine to fail. So I did something that in hindsight I probably should not have done- I cut off S4 completely and crimped all the wires together to a large gauge wire with a ring terminal on the other end which I connected to the battery negative post. My crimp job is good, covered with glue-filled heat shrink, and is a nice permanent repair. I am confident that it will never fail. I threw away the connector that I snipped off and probably don't have the spider anymore either.

However, if Yamaha sees it when (or if) I bring my bike in for the recall, they obviously cannot attach their harness to it, since S4 is no longer there. So the only way they can complete the recall is to replace the wiring harness.

My concern is, are they likely to say I have to pay for a new wiring harness or will they give me a new one? I'd be perfectly happy leaving it as is, but I doubt they will want to apply the punch mark and close out the recall without doing the repair one of their two approved methods. And I sure don't want my bike held hostage until I pay them, or have them void my Y.E.S. warranty over this. Yes, I know I should have just soldered a wire to the back of the spider or gotten one of the fix-it harnesses from one of the forum members, but that time has passed.

I could lie and claim S4 had overheated and this was my fix but I'd rather play it straight.

Opinions welcome.

 

[fjr183]

Just tell the dealer "it was a repair that you needed to make"!

 

[Ignacio]

I just got off the phone with Yamamma and told them i have a Brodie harness installed.

Yamaha at Cypress or a local Yamaha dealer? The former would be cooler, but interesting regardless.

 

[Speedygg]

I just got off the phone with Yamamma and told them i have a Brodie harness installed.

Yamaha at Cypress or a local Yamaha dealer? The former would be cooler, but interesting regardless.

Based on Highlander's previous post, Cypress stated to him/her that Brodie harness must be removed. Allrider seems to have gotten a different response. I am going to sit on the sidelines a bit longer till either there is confirmation of a local dealer that knows how to work with the Brodie harness, or Cypress makes official statement on this scenerio.

 

[Pale Rider 07]

Just a thought.

I would think the dealer won't even notice my harnesses when they check the bike, and do the recall. They will be looking at the spiders, not the fans, and head lights. So I would think if you have my harnesses in, you could leave them if you want, and let the dealer add there fix as well. It looks like the recall is tapping into a spider to add ground path, so you will be able to run with both fixes (mine and Yamaha) if you want. The only way they might notice my harnesses is if the dealer has to R&R the factory harness, which they won't have to do if you added the overload harnesses before the spiders got burnt.

There was a few of you that added my harnesses after being bitten, and now the bike is grounding threw them. If you are one of them , then you may want to take them out before you take it to dealer, and reinstall them after you get the new factory harness installed (if you want).

Another option for everyone is take the after market spider fixes off, and run with Yamaha's fix. I'm sure this is what Yamaha wants.

I just got my recall letter yesterday. I was planning on ordering the fix from Road Runner and being done with this, but the recall complicates this issue again. So my plan is this, I'm going to do the Road Runner fix and wait a while to take the bike in for the recall. I want to make sure that parts are available if they need to replace the entire harness. I cringe at the thought of taking it to a dealer, but see no other option at this point. I will most likely return the wiring to the original factory faulty config prior to taking it in for the recall, then re installing Road Runner's fix on top of that.

 

[RavFJR]

I got my recall notice this week and immediately called Yamaha. I told them I had Brodie's harness installed, and then asked about my options. I was informed by Yamaha that they were aware of Brodie's harness, and that it would only need to be removed if the factory main harness was in need of replacing. I was also informed that Brodie's harness doesn't void the factory or YES warranties, unless Brodie's harness becomes the cause of a failure. I was told to take my bike to the local dealer and they will add the recall mod, and not touch Brodie's harness. I called the dealer and gave them this information and they were fine with it. When I get my bike back I'll just reconnect Brodie's harness S4 connection, and keep the S4 recall mod as a souvenir. My 2 cents...

 

[Capt. Bob]

Well I haven't been around the site for some time and while I remember the spider issue I didn't know about the upcoming recall so....

Received mine yesterday. Spoke with Dealer here in Tally and they "heard" about it but yet to do anything (so the guy says) so I waiting for return call when part(s) will be available. I hadn't ridden the bike in over a year till yesterday. Don't know if that's good or bad Karma???

 

[dbx]

When I get my recall notice I'll schedule an appointment when they have the parts, drop the bike off in the morning, and pick it up that afternoon with the Yamaha fix installed. I will not tell them about my overload harnesses, and they won't know they're in there, because you can't see them by lifting the tank to do the Yamaha fix. And my spiders are perfect so they won't have to change the engine harness. It's not that I want to lie to the dealer, but I don't want to get into an argument with someone who may or may not know what I know, and I understand it may also be a liability issue. When it's all done I'll have my fix and Yamaha's fix installed so I'll have a very grounded Bike.

+1

 

[yamafitter]

I may have the first recall in the Great White North. I also have a good connection with the tech support group in Yamaha Canada.

My dealer knows that when it comes to electrical issues I have a better understanding of the issues than they do since I was an Instrumentation Tech at the local Nuke Plant and value my input in these matters. They were also surprised to learn that I had knowledge of this issue that goes back at least two years if not more. They had no idea that there was a problem until the memo showed up on their desk since there are only a few FJR's that run out of their shop and I do all my own maintenance so they have not seen my FJR in a while (there is no YES program in Canada).

I looked at the Yamaha part and we discussed options. I have the Brodie Harness and with the application of dielectric grease the harness resolves any corrosion or resistive issues in my professional opinion. Some engineers don't consider the Brodie Harness to be of a robust design but I don't have a high opinion of a large number of engineers, especially electrical engineers. It was my job as a Instrumentation Technologist to take the dumb ass engineers scribblings and make something that actually worked. I also am not concerned about being reimbursed for my installation of the Brodie Harness.

My dealer was willing to sign off on the Brodie harness and consider the recall complete. Given the anal-retentive nature of the legal profession in the United States I seriously doubt my American friends will have the same experience.

 

[Hogspanker]

So, Yamaha sends a notice stating the bike is defective and not safe to ride - right in the middle of riding season. (Is the statement to "not ride" intended to protect them or us?) The dealer does not have the parts to fix it - they'll call when they do (yea right, the check's in the mail). That may fix it or it may not. If not, kiss your bike goodbye for an undetermined period of time and put your trust in your local wrench to get your FJR in a dependable condition. Customer loyalty, anyone? I'm just thankful I have two lovely BMWs in my garage. Maybe it's time to stick with the Germans - especially since they are building mouth-watering kick-ass rides these days.

I do strictly long-haul rides. I can't afford to leave home on a bike that may not get me there and back. It will take a while for me to regain enough confidence in the Yamaha to leave town on it. I'm seriously considering putting the FJR up for sale: 2007; 20K miles; perfect condition - except for the defective ground joint connector and perhaps the wire harness.

 

[Ignacio]

The dealer does not have the parts to fix it - they'll call when they do (yea right, the check's in the mail). That may fix it or it may not. If not, kiss your bike goodbye for an undetermined period of time and put your trust in your local wrench to get your FJR in a dependable condition. Customer loyalty, anyone?

.... I can't afford to leave home on a bike that may not get me there and back. It will take a while for me to regain enough confidence in the Yamaha to leave town on it.

<BMW Kool-Aid Rant>

As opposed to BMW that hasn't even admitted there's a problem with final drives that DEFINITELY WILL leave you stranded on a regular basis? Would you rather a company keep denying there's a problem or one that at least tells you there's an issue and provides some admittedly inconvenient options?

This is now the second issue with the FJR riders can potentially be left stranded. It would be best if there were zero, but I know exactly which company I'm standing behind....the one with cajones to fess up and fix things. Just like the ignition switch issue...this issue will become one that is resolved.

And I'm proud of this forum collectively researching and helping resolve this issue.

Regardless, you're fortunate to have other motorcycles and a big stein of Kool-Aid to go with them. I just hope they're not models or years with the well known FD issue.

</BMW Kool-Aid Rant>

 

[Speedygg]

The dealer does not have the parts to fix it - they'll call when they do (yea right, the check's in the mail). That may fix it or it may not. If not, kiss your bike goodbye for an undetermined period of time and put your trust in your local wrench to get your FJR in a dependable condition. Customer loyalty, anyone?

.... I can't afford to leave home on a bike that may not get me there and back. It will take a while for me to regain enough confidence in the Yamaha to leave town on it.

<BMW Kool-Aid Rant>

As opposed to BMW that hasn't even admitted there's a problem with final drives that DEFINITELY WILL leave you stranded on a regular basis? Would you rather a company keep denying there's a problem or one that at least tells you there's an issue and provides some admittedly inconvenient options?

This is now the second issue with the FJR riders can potentially be left stranded. It would be best if there were zero, but I know exactly which company I'm standing behind....the one with cajones to fess up and fix things. Just like the ignition switch issue...this issue will become one that is resolved.

And I'm proud of this forum collectively researching and helping resolve this issue.

Regardless, you're fortunate to have other motorcycles and a big stein of Kool-Aid to go with them. I just hope they're not models or years with the well known FD issue.

</BMW Kool-Aid Rant>

+1 I would much rather be in this situation where there are two third party solutions and one from the manufacturer to choose from...vs the final drive issue on the BMW's with no real solution that I am aware of and no recognition from corporate that there is a problem.

 

[Woketman]

I love my FJR, but to be fair to Hopspanker, its not like Yamaha fessed up to this. They have denied it for years even as there was an obvious issue. If the NHTSA did not force their hand, they'd still be saying "issue? What grounding issue?"

That REALLY chaps my ass! If they had just said "OK, the issue is real and we'll fix it" I would be VERY happy.

 

[Ignacio]

If the NHTSA did not force their hand, they'd still be saying "issue? What grounding issue?"

Where's your evidence that NHTSA forced anything? In fact, Yamaha says, "The purpose of this correspondence is to provide preliminary information.... regarding a defect notification campaign we are initiating."

Yes, that's the way these things usually work and I'm sure NHTSA probably did send them a notification or request to formally look at it, but trying to characterize it as a government agency forced something and Yamaha all but lawyered up is whacky and wrong. They didn't fess up....but they sure didn't deny it either.

But, if you go with your spurious line of logic for a second you would then have to ask why hasn't NHTSA forced BMW's hand? Is it a double standard or is BMW a denier of a worse magnitude?

 

[Roadstar]

The dealer does not have the parts to fix it - they'll call when they do (yea right, the check's in the mail). That may fix it or it may not. If not, kiss your bike goodbye for an undetermined period of time and put your trust in your local wrench to get your FJR in a dependable condition. Customer loyalty, anyone?

.... I can't afford to leave home on a bike that may not get me there and back. It will take a while for me to regain enough confidence in the Yamaha to leave town on it.

<BMW Kool-Aid Rant>

As opposed to BMW that hasn't even admitted there's a problem with final drives that DEFINITELY WILL leave you stranded on a regular basis? Would you rather a company keep denying there's a problem or one that at least tells you there's an issue and provides some admittedly inconvenient options?

This is now the second issue with the FJR riders can potentially be left stranded. It would be best if there were zero, but I know exactly which company I'm standing behind....the one with cajones to fess up and fix things. Just like the ignition switch issue...this issue will become one that is resolved.

And I'm proud of this forum collectively researching and helping resolve this issue.

Regardless, you're fortunate to have other motorcycles and a big stein of Kool-Aid to go with them. I just hope they're not models or years with the well known FD issue.

</BMW Kool-Aid Rant>

+1 on above & i think the only BMW`s that don`t have final drive issues are the ones with chains. OH and don`t forget the leaking clutch slave cylinders & rear seals that wet the dry clutch. As i posted before , this is my 3rd Yami with recalls & i still stand behind them & I ran an SS1000 before my letter & would do it again (maybe even further) after they fix it. So sell your Yami & i`m sure the person that bought it would just plain ride the hell out of it.

 

[Woketman]

If the NHTSA did not force their hand, they'd still be saying "issue? What grounding issue?"

Where's your evidence that NHTSA forced anything? In fact, Yamaha says, "The purpose of this correspondence is to provide preliminary information.... regarding a defect notification campaign we are initiating."

Yes, that's the way these things usually work and I'm sure NHTSA probably did send them a notification or request to formally look at it, but trying to characterize it as a government agency forced something and Yamaha all but lawyered up is whacky and wrong. They didn't fess up....but they sure didn't deny it either.

But, if you go with your spurious line of logic for a second you would then have to ask why hasn't NHTSA forced BMW's hand? Is it a double standard or is BMW a denier of a worse magnitude?

They did not deny it???? I don't think so. They denied it over and over again to me, personally, on the telephone the week prior to the recall. ONE WEEK!!! And I spoke to at least three different techs. They kept telling me that all those guys on the internet are full of BS. Yes, Yamaha certainly denied it.

I do not have any evidence that Yammy was forced into it by the NHTSA, you are correct. But since they denied it VERY strongly, I am assuming they were strongly pushed into the recall.

I also assume that the NHTSA has not forced BMW's hand because of one of, or a combo of several factors: perhaps there are not as many motivated BMW riders on their forum to pursue it, not as many defects, not as clear-cut a failure, not enough time yet, etc....

 

[road runner]

I also think Yamaha's fix will be pretty good at fixing the problem, because I think it is an overload issue, and not a corrosion issue.

Art,

I think this was directed at my prior post, so I will respond. I think it is both an overload issue and a corrosion issue. Here's why:

When the spider is new and fresh the contact resistance is low. Low enough so that there is not much heat generated in that resistance by the heavy loads that go through the spider connections. After some time, (as you mentioned) all exposed electrical contacts become somewhat corroded and build up additional resistance. The S4 spider is in a bad place and gets wet from rain, washing the bike, etc. Over time, that same identical current that was previously OK now begins to heat up the connectors contacts, eventually to the point of failure.

So there are several ways to skin this cat. Yamaha's solution was to individually ground the 5 lines coming into the S-4 bus through the same exact connector that had previously proven inadequate. If all 5 of those ground lines carried the same load, this might lead you to believe that their solution gives you an increase of 5 times greater overhead. But they don't. I don't have the exact info at hand, but I recall that some of the grounds are just to electronic equipment and one goes to the radiator fans. The latter will represent the majority of the total current going thru that spider, and that current will now be going through just one contact pin of the S4, with no metal spider to act as a heat sink.

They could have moved the heaviest loads out of these failure prone connectors (like your roadrunner harness does) and had a better improvement. I believe that Brodie's harness is pretty much the same as the Yamaha fix, except he also takes care of all the other spiders.

A clutch switch is a necessary component. It allows certain safety functions in interlocking the starter. Doing occasional maintenance on something like that is a necessary evil. For these ground buss connectors (aka spiders) there really is no need to have them in the harness at all. And they are buried in an inconvenient place, not conducive to regular maintenance. Why not eliminate the failure point entirely with a permanent, weatherproof connection appropriately over-rated well above the working current of the joint? That type of a solution would not have been any more expensive to deploy (quite possibly less expensive to Yamaha overall if it could also be used to repair moderately damaged harnesses) and it would have addressed the root causes of the failure, rather than slapping a band aid on it.

Being a 1st gen owner, I really have no dog in this hunt. I just hate to see people getting all excited about getting (what amounts to) a half-assed solution to a problem that never had to exist in the first place, if the product had been more thoughtfully designed.

I mean, it's not like this is the space shuttle or something, right? It's just a bike!

Fred

You're right, it would be nice if the spiders were not even in there, but they are. I just think with less current going threw them, and some dielectric grease they will be OK.

To my knowledge there have only been 3 spiders that fail. S4 maybe 95%, S6 maybe 4%, and 1 person had S7 or S8 fail. S4 has the highest current going threw it. S6 has the second highest, and S7 S8 are 3rd and 4th. No reports of the S5 failing, and it lives in the same place as the S4 except on the right side, so it should get just as wet as S4. The only difference is the current. It has low 5 volt sensor grounds going threw it. The S6 lives in the left fairing behind the glove box so I don't think it sees to much water, yet it fails and the S5 doesn't. So yes I agree that water and corrosion are not good for any connector, but I don't think it becomes a problem with the spiders for a long time unless the connector is overloaded from the start.

There have been several cases were the spiders were inspected and been OK with no corrosion, and then greased, only to have them fail a short time later. I don't know how that could be resistance from corrosion. I think heat from the overloaded connector is damaging/oxidizing it, and then the corrosion starts. So yes I also think it's both overload and corrosion, but I think the heat from the overload is causing or allowing or accelerating the corrosion.

Yamaha's fix should work because they are adding ground paths to the S4. The S4 has current from the entire system going thew it to ground threw 1 pin. The S4 is failing at that 1 pin that goes to ground because of accumulative current from the other 5 wires. That 1 pin in the S4 that goes to ground is getting so hot it's melting the whole spider if left long enough. By adding ground paths to the S4 it will lighten the load on that one pin.

I really think by lightening the load on them and some grease once in a while(like at every valve check)they will be OK. Yeah it sucks having one more thing to do, and worry about, but I'm just trying to be a glass half full kind of guy about this. Lets give Yamaha a chance and see how it goes.

 

[Ignacio]

They did not deny it???? I don't think so. They denied it over and over again to me, personally, on the telephone the week prior to the recall. ONE WEEK!!! And I spoke to at least three different techs. They kept telling me that all those guys on the internet are full of BS. Yes, Yamaha certainly denied it.

Who's "they"? Your dealer or Yamaha Corporate in Cypress?

And they denied it for a WHOLE WEEK just prior to the actual recall? Oh my.....that's an organized conspiracy!

Meh. <_<

 

[Woketman]

Cypress. Just a week for me cause I was lucky, that's when it happened!