FJRF009.2: "Intermittent Ground Wire Connection"

[ScottyUSN]

Stopped by my dealer today with the recall notice. I was impressed that they had a computer printout sitting at the ready with the names of all the people that had purchased a FJR from them. They highlighted my name, verified my phone number, and said they would call me when the parts were in. I then asked that since they were already under the hood, so to speak, how much to put in a set of new plugs and do a throttle body sync. Without batting an eye he says....oh about $500. :blink: No thanks I say, I think I can do it myself.

I made sure to explain, since the tank will be up and your already in there, how much to do plugs and TB Sync? He when to chat with the tech and came back with a cost of 1.5 hours labor + cost of plugs.

 

[olsonm3915]

Removing the tank is dead simple. Changing plugs is dead simple. Doing a TBS is easy if you have a sync tool. For the cost of 1.5 hours labor you can buy a Morgan Carbtune Pro which is about $100 shipped, and be able to do it again for no out-of-pocket cost other than your time. Whenever the cost of labor is comparable to the cost of the tool(s) needed to do a job, it's a pretty simple decision for me.

 

[ScottyUSN]

Removing the tank is dead simple. Changing plugs is dead simple. Doing a TBS is easy if you have a sync tool. For the cost of 1.5 hours labor you can buy a Morgan Carbtune Pro which is about $100 shipped, and be able to do it again for no out-of-pocket cost other than your time. Whenever the cost of labor is comparable to the cost of the tool(s) needed to do a job, it's a pretty simple decision for me.

I agree with all the above, but I have no working relationship with a Yamaha shop, giving them a little business to go along with the recall work was/is my goal. Not to mention it's stupid hot out.

I have a carbtuner sync tool in my Amazon shopping cart and just received my service manual for the FJR... Next time

 

[Jackson]

When I called Black Hills Powersports in Rapid City, SD last week after receiving my letter and then researching the issue on this forum, the service manager had not heard of the recall. I explained it to him and also the fact that I have a 3,500 mile trip planned that begins on August 1. I told him that when I bring the bike in, it would be great if he had both parts on hand, the sub-harness and the full harness, so in case it needed the full harness the bike would not have to sit while waiting for the part. He agreed, and said that's what they normally do in similar situations. He called back later and said he was told by Yamaha that dealers were not allowed to order the full harness until it had been determined during an inspection that it was absolutely needed.

They expect to have the sub-harness in sometime this week. I'll take the bike in and get that replaced. Hopefully they'll say the full harness looks fine and I'll leave for California a few days later, not feeling toooo paranoid.

On a slightly related issue, just a few weeks ago I took my '06 FJR (with 28,000 miles) in for the 26,000 mile checkup. I asked the service manager how often they worked on bikes with 28,000 miles on the odometer. He thought about it, turned around and looked at an assistant, then looked back at me and said: "Well, there's your's, and one other guy......"

By the way, I've always been very pleased with the work that Black Hills Powersports has done on my bike.

 

[SkooterG]

On a slightly related issue, just a few weeks ago I took my '06 FJR (with 28,000 miles) in for the 26,000 mile checkup. I asked the service manager how often they worked on bikes with 28,000 miles on the odometer. He thought about it, turned around and looked at an assistant, then looked back at me and said: "Well, there's your's, and one other guy......"

When I brought in my first 2004 FJR for it millionth valve check at 205,000 miles, the guy that owns the shop and does all the wrenching made no bones about how proud he was to work on such a bike and that one of his customers actually really rode the shit out of his motorcycle. At that mileage, I had finally become the highest mileage bike he had ever worked on. Made me proud too.

 

[dbx]

Has anyone taken in their FJR for the fix and it also has an electronic cruise control installed? I installed the MCCruise on my FJR and don't want to remove it just to get this recall installed.

How do the service techs deal with this type of aftermarket installation? Should I copy the installation manual for the MCCruise and give it to the service tech? Since Yamaha only pays a limited amount of shop labor as part of this recall, asking the service tech to work around my MCCruise will probably cause the service tech to not get reimbursed for all of his labor - not the best way to get great service.

I have the Audiovox cruise control installed under the tank, in front of the coolant crossover pipe and completely blocking the wires for the ignition switch. Imagine my concern when I had the ignition switch recall done last year. The Service Manager said he asked for additional time from Yamaha Corporate because of the extra work involved to remove the coolant crossover pipe and move my cruise servo out of the way, and Yamaha agreed. The downside?? Yamaha made him put a note in my file to the effect that "This owner has an unapproved electronic cruise control device installed. Yamaha disavows any liability from its use and recommends its immediate removal."

Regarding the current recall, my bike was in the shop for a blown fork seal, which Yamaha covered under YES as a one-time favor, according to the Service manager, so they did the wiring harness inspection at the same time. Finding no damage at S4, they installed the stub harness and buttoned it up. They completed the replacement of both fork seals, as well as the stub harness, in about half a day.

I have roadrunner's harness installed, and they either didn't notice or didn't care. I assume they didn't notice since you can't see it by raising the tank.

 

[BentAero]

Can the stub/jumper harness be added by literally just raising the tank, or does the "T" bar and insulation have to come off?

I've had pretty good luck with M-R Motorcycle (mega dealer) in Asheville over the years, but this time they flat pissed me off. The jackwagon in the service dept refused to even order any jumper harnesses ahead of time, insisting that "we have to inspect your bike first, determine what is needed, and then order the parts. Your bike will have to stay here until it's done."

I told him I've already inspected it, it doesn't need a full harness as there is nothing wrong, and please just order the jumper harness. He refused, sticking to his story. I then told him he was being rediculous and he wasn't going to hold my bike hostage. He then offered a snotty 'goodbye, which I happily agreed to.

Then I called Harper Yamaha (small mom & pop dealer) in Hendersonville. Jesse was all over it already, having ordered 3 jumper harnesses last Friday. He said he'd keep one for me and they'd install it for me while I waited, just call first to let them know when I was coming by. Ha!

 

[Ignacio]

Can the stub/jumper harness be added by literally just raising the tank, or does the "T" bar and insulation have to come off?

I told him I've already inspected it, it doesn't need a full harness as there is nothing wrong, and please just order the jumper harness. He refused, sticking to his story.

According to the procedure you can look at yourself and linked in the first post of this thread...the T-bar is to be removed.

Not ordering the sub-leads in advance is lame IMO. It's a waste of your and their time to not have a supply of them commensurate with the list they have of known affected motorcycles. Actual full-blown harnesses...is another story. Probably better to go to a dealer that has the sub-leads in stock.

 

[HawkWing]

Have my recall letter in hand, dated July 8. Have already installed RR's fix, & do all my own maintenance (so far). I inspected and greased all my spiders at the time I installed RR's fix; no issues. My "08 FJR was used when I acquired it. Just put over 8,000 miles on it out West in June; total mileage at around 28,000. Wondering whether anyone has had any history with a local Middle Tennessee Yammie dealership, good or bad, as I will be taking mine in for recall fix. I will, of course, make sure the subharness is in stock at the dealer before bringing the bike in for service. Admin- please move this if not in the proper place.

 

[JT 384]

I received mine up here in Canada today.I'm suppost to leave for the East Coast in 12 days, they better fixer before I leave or someone is going to get club like a seal! :headbonk:

JT

 

[dfp21]

So we ride at our own risk?

I don't ride at night anymore so is the main concern the motor dying while riding? I've had this happen to me several times in the past with different bikes. I just pulled in the clutch and drove over to the side of the road. Is there something I'm missing? :huh:

The electric-shift model can't be shifted into neutral without electric power. This would suck on the freeway.

 

[FiveG]

Based on the Forum (thanks, guys), I had alerted my local dealer who ordered a bunch of the grounding wire harnesses. Made appointment for today. Letter came in Thursday. Brought bike in yesterday afternoon. Just spoke with service; it's done and ready to roll (including I had a new battery put in my 2007 -- figure it's about time.)

Easily done.

Never had any issues up to now, but figure I've now made the Recall Gods happy.

 

[Harald]

To my knowledge there have only been 3 spiders that fail. S4 maybe 95%, S6 maybe 4%, and 1 person had S7 or S8 fail. S4 has the highest current going threw it. S6 has the second highest, and S7 S8 are 3rd and 4th. No reports of the S5 failing, and it lives in the same place as the S4 except on the right side, so it should get just as wet as S4. The only difference is the current. It has low 5 volt sensor grounds going threw it. The S6 lives in the left fairing behind the glove box so I don't think it sees to much water, yet it fails and the S5 doesn't. So yes I agree that water and corrosion are not good for any connector, but I don't think it becomes a problem with the spiders for a long time unless the connector is overloaded from the start.

Am I the only one with the S7 failure? I thought I had heard of others, which I why I started a NEW THREAD to track spider failures other than the most common S4 failure.

But to stay on topic, I must comment that the S7 has about a third of the current going through it that S4 does, yet mine failed:

I pretty sure that dirty water being sprayed onto my S7, combined with up to 15 amps of current (as estimated by RZ350) is what caused the failure. So the fix requires addressing both parts of the problem: reducing current flow through the spiders with add on harnesses and stopping intrusion of dirt/water by greasing connections (or replacing connectors with waterproof versions).

This past weekend I inspected S6 and S8 that I had VERY THOROUGHLY packed with dielectric grease 1.5 years ago and they both still looked pristine. I didn't bother checking S7 because it no longer exists on the bike (being replaced by solder and heat shrink tubing). I suspect that keeping the spiders clean and dry by encapsulating the connections with dielectric grease would go a long way to avoiding problems. I suspect that reported spider failures after greasing were caused by insufficient grease. I subscribe to the "wheel bearing greasing" method to applying dielectric grease to spiders where you use you fingers to repeatedly force the grease down into the connector until the sockets are totally surrounded. Then after pusing the spider back in, adding more grease so that when the black cap gets installed there's grease oozing out. A quick wipe to get rid of excessive dirt attracting grease and you're done. Water's gonna have a hard time getting at my spiders! :yahoo:

 

[ionbeam]

This past weekend I inspected S6 and S8 that I had VERY THOROUGHLY packed with dielectric grease 1.5 years ago...keeping the spiders clean and dry by encapsulating the connections with dielectric grease would go a long way to avoiding problems. I suspect that reported spider failures after greasing were caused by insufficient grease. I subscribe to the "wheel bearing greasing" method to applying dielectric grease to spiders where you use you fingers to repeatedly force the grease down into the connector until the sockets are totally surrounded. Then after pusing the spider back in, adding more grease so that when the black cap gets installed there's grease oozing out...

[unpopular view]

I know that you have done this and you don't have a failure (so far), but I disagree about this being a good idea as a general fix. Dielectric grease was never meant to be used like this. IMO, it is a bad idea to cram, pack and stuff a high quality insulator, as in the total opposite of electrical conduction, into a connector that suffers from lack of conduction already. If you view the melting temperature of most dielectric grease and for that matter wheel bearing grease it is usually not more than 500º . If you look at the melting of the high temperature connector bodies and the melted insulation on the wires there is some significant heat being concentrated in a small area. If the dielectric grease starts to get runny it can wick in between the electrical contacts and cause problems. Anyone coming along after you will hate you if they have to work with those connectors, not that it really matters -- unless that someone is being paid by the hour to work on your bike. Should water, road contaminates or pockets of moisture laden air get driven into the connector the grease will hold it in place and make it real hard to dry out again. Part of the problem with S4 is that it can receive a fairly straight shot of water and dirt over the top of the radiator as well as hot steam coming off the header pipes when they get wet.

I know that packing electrical connectors with dielectric grease is the holy grail for fixing electrical problems for some people, but being in the electrical/electronics field I can tell you that this is not a common industry practice for a reason.

[/unpopular view]

 

[Harald]

This past weekend I inspected S6 and S8 that I had VERY THOROUGHLY packed with dielectric grease 1.5 years ago...keeping the spiders clean and dry by encapsulating the connections with dielectric grease would go a long way to avoiding problems. I suspect that reported spider failures after greasing were caused by insufficient grease. I subscribe to the "wheel bearing greasing" method to applying dielectric grease to spiders where you use you fingers to repeatedly force the grease down into the connector until the sockets are totally surrounded. Then after pusing the spider back in, adding more grease so that when the black cap gets installed there's grease oozing out...

[unpopular view]

I know that you have done this and you don't have a failure (so far), but I disagree about this being a good idea as a general fix. Dielectric grease was never meant to be used like this. IMO, it is a bad idea to cram, pack and stuff a high quality insulator, as in the total opposite of electrical conduction, into a connector that suffers from lack of conduction already. If you view the melting temperature of most dielectric grease and for that matter wheel bearing grease it is usually not more than 500º . If you look at the melting of the high temperature connector bodies and the melted insulation on the wires there is some significant heat being concentrated in a small area. If the dielectric grease starts to get runny it can wick in between the electrical contacts and cause problems. Anyone coming along after you will hate you if they have to work with those connectors, not that it really matters -- unless that someone is being paid by the hour to work on your bike. Should water, road contaminates or pockets of moisture laden air get driven into the connector the grease will hold it in place and make it real hard to dry out again. Part of the problem with S4 is that it can receive a fairly straight shot of water and dirt over the top of the radiator as well as hot steam coming off the header pipes when they get wet.

I know that packing electrical connectors with dielectric grease is the holy grail for fixing electrical problems for some people, but being in the electrical/electronics field I can tell you that this is not a common industry practice for a reason.

[/unpopular view]

I agree that using the grease is not the ideal solution (or only solution), but short of replacing the connector with a waterproof one I don't see an easy solution. If the grease does it's intended job, then there shouldn't be any heating of the connector that liquifies the grease. And ultimately it would be fairly easy to use contact cleaner out of a pressurized can to remove the grease. BTW, I'm not in any way suggesting that lessening that current flow through overtaxed S4 by adding a ground harness is not necessary. I just think that adding dielectric grease also is a good idea.

I can't speak for all industry, but in my field I'm not aware of any use of dielectric grease in the Standard wiring practices manual for Boeing aircraft. Connectors that are exposed to the environment are really nice (and expensive!) waterproof versions. Any splices are crimped and covered in sealed heat shrunk tubing. But I have seen splices designed for buried wire (electronic dog fencing in my experience) that consist of a dielectric grease filled plastic shell that is clamped around the splice joint to stop water intrusion and corrosion of the connection. What do they use when they splice wiring in the ground after someone ripped it up with their backhoe?

 

[ionbeam]

Close to a wet dry dream are Weather Pack™ connectors. Look under the hood of your car and you will find them on many of the critical wiring looms. The following is just representative of the generic class of weather pack connectors. If these had been used with the pins shown, Yamaha wouldn't be issuing the recall IMO. Would you have paid an extra $10 for your FJR if it prevented the Spider Bite?

Representative connector, 6 pin, they come in many shapes:

Part A of the magic connectors. The pins have some spring to them so they put force on the socket connection.

Part B of the magic connectors. The socket barrel expands as the slightly oversize pin is slid in, reinforcing the electrical connection.

Part C of the magic connectors, sealing rubber sleeves that go over the pins and locks into the connector body.

 

[olsonm3915]

Would you have paid an extra $10 for your FJR if it prevented the Spider Bite?

Since none of the spider connectors are actually necessary to make the harness work, I would be happy to pay at least $10 less for a harness that used simple and reliable crimped and sealed ground junctions rather than connectors!

The thing I don't understand is why the connectors were even designed into the harness in the first place.

 

[ionbeam]

...The thing I don't understand is why the connectors were even designed into the harness in the first place.

[thread drift]

Lemmings. What Yamaha did has been becoming an industry standard way to gang grounds together across all power sport vehicles. Choice one -- other power sports manufactures have figured out a way to make 'ground spiders' work reliably and Yamaha screwed up. Choice two -- the power sports manufacturers are about to get killed by their industry standard gang grounds not living up to expectations.

[/thread drift]

 

[olsonm3915]

As I see it-

1. No performance advantage whatsoever to using connectors and spiders over traditional crimped junctions.

2. Connectors are more expensive to buy.

3. Connectors take more labor time to crimp separate pins & assemble.

So again, why do they do it?

Maybe I am missing something or making incorrect assumptions.

Certainly, given a minimal level of thought, Yamaha could have at least designed their harness correctly so that excessive return current from multiple circuits was not funneled through a single pin of a ground connector. But it would have been far easier to simply not bother to include them in the first place. Doubly puzzling to me.

 

[ionbeam]

Since none of the spider connectors are actually necessary to make the harness work, I would be happy to pay at least $10 less for a harness that used simple and reliable crimped and sealed ground junctions rather than connectors!...

As I see it-

1. No performance advantage whatsoever to using connectors and spiders over traditional crimped junctions.

2. Connectors are more expensive to buy.

3. Connectors take more labor time to crimp separate pins & assemble...

Maybe I am missing something or making incorrect assumptions.

Certainly, given a minimal level of thought, Yamaha could have at least designed their harness correctly so that excessive return current from multiple circuits was not funneled through a single pin of a ground connector...

We are all puzzled at why the design didn't provide quality over time. While at home, in the comfort of our garage it is often difficult to think about the bigger picture. If you have ever seen the way a machine can whip out wires and automatically crimp connectors on the wires for automatic connector insertion you would see why the connector would be a good $ value.