2014A or ES: Heavy Suspension help before possible deposit

[deagle]

I posted last week about getting into a used 2013/2014 in a year or two from my current 2008, and the responses were very helpful.

But then I made the mistake of talking to a dealer yesterday. Turns out they really seem to be willing to deal on the 2014A model. I understand it's not the "hot" ES model, which I don't think they are discounting much, if at all. So now I'm trying to justify moving up from my mint 2008 with only 20,000 miles on it.

I don't think I can justify the added cost of the ES at this time. It's not a $1,000 upgrade. ES is close to MSRP, where the A model I found on the floor is discounted much heavier.

So suspension: I'm 6'3" and 280. Wife is about 150. I'm thinking we need heavy springs. We've been fine on the 2008. I set it to heavy when I got it and never touched it again. I'm not a burner on the curves, which is fine since we don't have many here in Michigan.

So for us heavy people: How does the suspension hold up on the 2008 vs 2014A vs 2014ES?

Unfortunately I am never going to be the 170 lb rider with the 110 lb wife that most bikes are aimed at. And after 49,000 miles on FJR's (had 2004 too), I have lived just fine without a shock upgrade, although I can feel the difference when the wife gets on. Just want to make sure if I am buying new, I am getting the one that makes the most sense for my weight and riding style.

Thanks for the help.

Don.

 

[wnyfjr]

Those with better answers will be along I'm sure, but one of the things I am considering is a swap on my 06 AE to a GenIII shock. It apparently comes with a heavier spring, and that's what you'd be getting on the '14. So I would think if you were fine with the spring on your '08 shock, you should have no worries with the '14.

 

[MCRIDER007]

I have done several sag measurements on the 14ES and compared those sag measurements to my 2013A and my 2008 with a Wilbers shock and a 800 lb spring. Its difficult to compare spring rates using sag unless you know (for sure) the shocks base preload (and the FSM isn't always accurate) but I can say for certain that the 13A heavy spring is considerably heavier than the 800 lb spring currently on my 2008 and the 13A/14A is going to have less sag than the 14ES at the weight you will be carrying when riding double.....and probably would be a better choice.

 

[Allen_C]

At your 280, you will probably need to ride a '14ES wirh preload set on 2up. If you ride with your wife, combined weight of 410, 2up with luggage will be the setting. On the ES, you will most likely only use 2 of the 4 settings. Since you don't ride curvy roads having the rebound adjustments may not be very useful for you.

Based on what your situation is, I'd recommend NOT buying the ES. Instead, if you want the Gen3 upgrades, buy a '13 or '14A and use the $ you save for better springs to accommodate your base weight. If you don't want the Gen3 upgrades other than suspension then get an aftermarket shock for your '08. Once you get that dialed in you should be good to go when your wife hops on by adding preload on the rear.

 

[RaYzerman19]

I have done sag measurements on the GenIII A and ES, and my conclusion is that the ES rear spring rate is adequate for 200-220 lb rider, but not for the 260 lb rider we measured. You will need spring upgrades on an ES, front and rear. The fork spring preload is not adjustable on the ES, there are no adjusters.... add spacers or new springs. I recommend you go to RaceTech site and do a spring rate calculation. While I thing their basic rear spring rate recommendation may be a little on the stiff side, you'll get the idea of range you need.

The ES has a rear spring rate of 685 lbs, definitely below your requirements. We don't yet know of a spring upgrade that's available, but surely someone will be able to do so. The A version has a spring rate of 985, in the ballpark for you, but it is the same two-spring hard/soft setting type of shock as on Gen2. May be harsh on the hard setting which you will definitely use when two-up. I'd think one day you'll upgrade to aftermarket.

The fork springs in both the A and ES are the same at 1.0, again a bit below your requirements. A has adjustable preload for those, ES does not have adjusters.

You could ride the ES with your pillion and try the highest level of the 4 preload settings and see what you think. You could do the same with the A........ but it is more suitable for upgrade to aftermarket with known shocks from the previous Gens...... they all bolt on interchangeably (with exception of the ES).

Money-wise, it makes sense to take a deep discount on an A and spend the bucks on suspension if and when you need it.

 

[TheZsdad]

I'm sure this isn't the suggestion you want buttttt, I'd keep riding the 08 until the ES newness has worn off. Consider upgrading the suspension on the 08.

 

[art miller]

+1 on TheZsdad's comment. You have an 08 in mint condition with only 20K miles, why not spend a thousand bucks or so on a suspension upgrade. If money matters keep the 08. If you want the heated grips, cruise control, and traction control then you may want to part with the $$'s.

 

[Bokerfork]

I know this isn't quite what you were looking for but, what about a 2010 Honda Accord?

IOW's ride more, worry less. Besides, the Accord prolly comes with AC

 

[Sno Cat]

I'm 250 & @ nearly 6' tall, my X-GF was prolly 190. We only did a couple of 2-up rides but my '10 FJR was very, very far under-sprung for our combined weight.

I haven't tested the ES w/a lady friend yet but I will say, my impression of the ES that it is sprung & damped with a definite bias towards the soft. I spend most of my rides w/the preload set on 1-up w/luggage / damping @ Hard +3. When the frost heaves rare their ugly heads, I go for Std or Soft damping. I suspect the ES may not offer enough preload for a heavier rider & pillion combo & it may not offer firm enough damping for the twisties when fully burdened.

A '14 A model + the couple of grand it needs for suspension upgrades negates its cost advantage. Perhaps an option would be to find a leftover or lo-mileage '13 & upgrade the suspension on that.

 

[SkooterG]

Screw all these other idiots! Get a '14! Gen IIIs rock!

 

[gumba]

I've got a 09 with GPS- Penske 800 spring and a 013 with OEM susp.. I ride 90% of the time with a tank bag (only). For the first 5k I rode around with the 013 rear shock on soft . Thought the bike felt terrible vague. Moved the shock up to the hard position and have never gone back. For a 985 lb. spring the 013 shock feels soft (just about right) to me. I weigh 185. If you are going to be carrying 430 lbs. you're going to have to do susp. work on whatever you choose.

 

[MCRIDER007]

I've got a 09 with GPS- Penske 800 spring and a 013 with OEM susp.. I ride 90% of the time with a tank bag (only). For the first 5k I rode around with the 013 rear shock on soft . Thought the bike felt terrible vague. Moved the shock up to the hard position and have never gone back. For a 985 lb. spring the 013 shock feels soft (just about right) to me. I weigh 185. If you are going to be carrying 430 lbs. you're going to have to do susp. work on whatever you choose.

Reading your comments (and others like yours) makes me believe that not all '13 suspensions are the same. My personal experience was that the first demo I rode seemed like it had a GEN2 shock, the soft position was so soft it was almost mushy, I switched to the hard position and even it was not that firm (I weigh about 220). Five months later I rode another demo (at the same dealership), started out in the hard position which felt too firm, switched to the soft position and it felt great. I bought that demo with the intention of putting a Penske on it but after a lot of comparisons with my other bikes (which have Wilbers and Penske shocks) it didn't seem necessary. I do the majority of my riding in the soft position, if the bike is fully loaded and I am in a sport mode I may switch to the hard position. I haven't had much passenger experience but the hard position handles the passenger's weight much better than my 08 (which has a Wilbers shock and 800 lb spring).

i wish we could get together and compare sag rates.

 

[deagle]

I am putting down a deposit on a 2014 A model today. Thanks for all of the help.

I have lived fine with the 2008 suspension. Most of the riding is done by myself. Occassionally my wife joins me. If the ES is not going to be better than the A model for two up, then I'll stick with the heavily discounted A model.

On my 2004 I played with the suspension when I got it (meaning I set it to the heavier side of average). Never touched it after that.

My 2008 is still set at the settings it came with (except back shock to hard). I take incredible care of my bike, but the suspension is the one thing I don't understand that well, the bike rides great, so I don't worry about it. Think the ES model would be lost on someone like me.

Thanks again.

 

[Allen_C]

I am putting down a deposit on a 2014 A model today. Thanks for all of the help. I have lived fine with the 2008 suspension. Most of the riding is done by myself. Occassionally my wife joins me. If the ES is not going to be better than the A model for two up, then I'll stick with the heavily discounted A model.

On my 2004 I played with the suspension when I got it (meaning I set it to the heavier side of average). Never touched it after that.

My 2008 is still set at the settings it came with (except back shock to hard). I take incredible care of my bike, but the suspension is the one thing I don't understand that well, the bike rides great, so I don't worry about it. Think the ES model would be lost on someone like me.

Thanks again.

Actually the ES is better for 2up riding than the A if you want easy and quick to adjust suspension settings. However, the weight ranges on the ES are a little low for your situation so you are probably making the right choice - the 2014 is a great looking and highly refined bike. Enjoy!

 

[gumba]

Here's another interesting Gen3 factoid (impression). When I picked-up my 013 I immediately brought it up to 45 mph and set the cc. Took my hands off the bars and guess what? No dreaded 45 mph head shake. Now with 9k on 2 different front tires no h.s.. Don't know if it's a Gen3 thing or luck of the draw. Doesn't pull to the left either until the crown of the road does it's thing. Don't think Yamaha has changed the rake/trail. Suspect they may have done a tooling/fixture refresh.

 

[Allen_C]

Here's another interesting Gen3 factoid (impression). When I picked-up my 013 I immediately brought it up to 45 mph and set the cc. Took my hands off the bars and guess what? No dreaded 45 mph head shake. Now with 9k on 2 different front tires no h.s.. Don't know if it's a Gen3 thing or luck of the draw. Doesn't pull to the left either until the crown of the road does it's thing. Don't think Yamaha has changed the rake/trail. Suspect they may have done a tooling/fixture refresh.

I do not think it is bike specific. All the research I've done indicates the presence of a head shake is mostly determined by the front tire. At about 3,500 miles my '14 started shaking between 41-49 mph. I just changed front tires after 9,300 miles and no shake, just like when I first bought the bike. Upon examining my front tire over its lifetime, I noticed some scalloping around 3,500, which seemed to diminish a bit after 8,500 mi, at which time the shakes also narrowed to the 43-48 mph range.

 

[WWWobble]

Here's another interesting Gen3 factoid (impression). When I picked-up my 013 I immediately brought it up to 45 mph and set the cc. Took my hands off the bars and guess what? No dreaded 45 mph head shake. Now with 9k on 2 different front tires no h.s.. Don't know if it's a Gen3 thing or luck of the draw. Doesn't pull to the left either until the crown of the road does it's thing. Don't think Yamaha has changed the rake/trail. Suspect they may have done a tooling/fixture refresh.

I do not think it is bike specific. All the research I've done indicates the presence of a head shake is mostly determined by the front tire. At about 3,500 miles my '14 started shaking between 41-49 mph. I just changed front tires after 9,300 miles and no shake, just like when I first bought the bike. Upon examining my front tire over its lifetime, I noticed some scalloping around 3,500, which seemed to diminish a bit after 8,500 mi, at which time the shakes also narrowed to the 43-48 mph range.

I agree that tires have most to do with hands off the bars head shake. I have 92,000 on my 06, and haven't had a head shake issue since the newer GT spec tires have been introduced for the heavier sport touring bikes. I'm pretty convinced the head shake issue has been tires (mostly front tire wear) all along.

WWWobble

 

[BanjoBoy]

Screw all these other idiots! Get a '04! Gen Is rock!

Thar, I dun fixed it fer ya.

 

[snave]

Newbie to the FJR forum - so this is post 1!!!
OK - the '14FJR ES has many, many different suspension settings. but don't you usually find the one that suits you, and leave it that way forever? I am an ST1300 owner (for now) and i can adjust that suspension too, but I don't. I found the sweet spot and there it stays. 50% riding one up, and 50% riding two up.

Sorry, I'll go back in the corner now.