snowmonkey
Well-known member
Huh?..., so you're saying that Hollywood no longer produces great movies because HD builds a popular motorcycle?
Can't even get a bid...
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And who can forget The Mad Monster, The Brute Man, and The White Gorilla from the 1940's?
Humans have been mediocre for a long time, long before movies or motorcyles existed
no. i'm saying using "popularity" as a guide (no matter what the issue) leads to mediocrity. the majority (of sales, etc.) focuses on the center and not the ends of the bell curve. you might avoid the real stinkers but you also miss out on the brilliant bits, too. the movie analogy was just that; not a direct corelation, but an example of how it applies in more areas than just bikes.
use a little time and consideration and you'll be able to apply it to bikes as i originally intended.
and it's especially true if you use "total sales" or "total revenue" to define "popular".
there are more Ford Focuses sold each year than there are Zondas. Does that mean that the Focus is "better" than the Zonda?
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MikeYork5
Well-known member
Now that's funny -
Also an interesting analogy of mediocrity - not sure it really applies here however. Harley is building EXACTLY what they know will sell (in the hundreds of thousands I might add).
Geez....I'm in the car business. and I thought you were mis-spelling Honda. WTF is a Zonda (had to google it)? It might mean a Focus IS a better car than a Zonda, for the 500,000 who will buy one this year worldwide vs. the half a dozen or so who will buy a Zonda.
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Dwavey
Well-known member
If you mean popular by number manufactured or sold, then the honour of "most popular" would go to the Chinese. But if you mean popular in terms of creating that huge number of buyers who are willing to wait in long lines to pay for a brand and dress up in garb that emulates a lifestyle that bears little or no resemblence to that which they actually live, which is a sales tact that HD seems to have masterfully exploited in a manner that the rest of the world's manufacturers have wet dreams about...
Are you sure the post was Harley bashing? Maybe it was to poke fun at the seller's implicit expectation of recovering the $ 'invested'? I mean, every level-headed biker knows that a mass-production motorcycle is a divestment rather than an investment..
Perhaps DailyCommuter got it right, the real story of the sale is that the bike was proceeds gained through a good divorce lawyer...
They are the most popular in the 651cc and larger class in the United States. Pull that little constraint off and they fall to number 3 in the US and 5th worldwide. As for Harley-Davidson® bashing nothing could be farther from the truth. MikeYork and SnowMonkey aside most people still possess a funny bone and are able to comprehend "irony". In comedy the funniest things are those that have a little truth to them. The Motor Company® and their minions just provide us with more fodder than others. Maybe it's because they are so "popular"??? This post was just exposing another Milwaukee Myth, you always sell them for what you paid for them.
And Yorkie, nope, never was abused by a 1%er. By definition they are few and far between but that doesn't stop a whole bunch of people from pretending does it. Never got the Stones. I was too young to be doing drugs back then for the World's Greatest Garage Band to resonate with me. My mom did marry biker, but he rode an Indian and then moved on to more advanced brands later in his life. Bad hygiene, a beard and tats never did appeal to my mother thank you. Not sure who Sonny is. Perhaps your mother could fill us in.
And Yorkie, nope, never was abused by a 1%er. By definition they are few and far between but that doesn't stop a whole bunch of people from pretending does it. Never got the Stones. I was too young to be doing drugs back then for the World's Greatest Garage Band to resonate with me. My mom did marry biker, but he rode an Indian and then moved on to more advanced brands later in his life. Bad hygiene, a beard and tats never did appeal to my mother thank you. Not sure who Sonny is. Perhaps your mother could fill us in.
MikeYork5
Well-known member
I said most popular MOTORCYCLE - not scooter - so let the Chinese have at it. Yes, thats what I mean "Creating the huge number of buyers....blah,blah,blah" - you're right though their marketing is masterful, and has resulted IN PART, as I stated earlier the most popular MOTORCYCLE in the world.
No, I'm pretty sure the post was "Harley Bashing" or at least semi-so, review some of MNFJR's many posts and make the call yourself. There are probably a few misguided souls who bought a Harley (or any bike for that matter) for an investment --- but then there's a few guys who invested in the sub-prime mortgage industry as well.
Add: Just read your above post - want to elaborate some more about 'your funny bone'? Pull that lttle 651cc constraint off and they are #3? Why pull 'that little constraint' off? One of my favorite diddys - 'When ifs and buts become candy and nuts - oh what a world it will be'. Not sure how you figure they would be number 3, is that because everything they sell is 650 or over? Also, I'm not really aware of the Milwaukee Myth - sell them what you paid for them? (Yorkie? My friends call me that - Ok, your entitled I guess). Yes 1%'ers are few and far between - by definition, thankfully. You're Dad rode and Indian, great (mine rode a Harley for many years), pretty closly related bikes (1901 Indian, 1903 Harley) not really sure why the emphasis on "but he rode an Indian" though. I am glad your mother wasn't impressed with bad hygiene, etc., (certainly no disrespect meant towards your mom) and 'Sonny' was a reference to Sonny Barger founding member (1957) of the Oakland Chapter of the Hells Angels. No offense, just my attemp at tickling your 'funny bone'. Can't we all just be friends?
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wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
The original post was bashing a guy (not the bike) who doesn't ride, bought a Harley just because it was a Harley, and "invested" tons of money in "customizing" and now wonders why it's so hard to make a profit.
All he did was spend money on accessories anybody can buy, but he bit into the H-D mystique, and then got bit.
There was Harley-bashing, but the bashing is on the "image" that non-riders have, hoping that just by getting a Harley they'll magically become part of the "club" and be instantly way cooler than they ever dreamed, chicks flocking to their door.
All he did was spend money on accessories anybody can buy, but he bit into the H-D mystique, and then got bit.
There was Harley-bashing, but the bashing is on the "image" that non-riders have, hoping that just by getting a Harley they'll magically become part of the "club" and be instantly way cooler than they ever dreamed, chicks flocking to their door.
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MikeYork5
Well-known member
When I bought my Harley I did get instantly cooler - but I somehow missed out on the chicks flocking to my door part.
Yes we can Yorkie. Never want to become adversaries over something this trivial. BTW did you hear Sonny Barger's comment on what they would be riding if the Angels had formed now?
"Barger replies, "I would probably ride a BMW or a Honda ST 1100. The Harleys are getting better every year, but they're still junk. I mean I bought my wife a brand new 2000 Dyna Glide Sport and it goes into a speed wobble at 85 and I've done everything that I can do to get it out. I'm a good mechanic, I've followed their directions, we took it their shop, they've done work and it still wobbles on her. The factory tells us to change the shocks. Now why should we buy shocks for a brand new motorcycle?""
Let's be friends!!! :yahoo:
"Barger replies, "I would probably ride a BMW or a Honda ST 1100. The Harleys are getting better every year, but they're still junk. I mean I bought my wife a brand new 2000 Dyna Glide Sport and it goes into a speed wobble at 85 and I've done everything that I can do to get it out. I'm a good mechanic, I've followed their directions, we took it their shop, they've done work and it still wobbles on her. The factory tells us to change the shocks. Now why should we buy shocks for a brand new motorcycle?""
Let's be friends!!! :yahoo:
wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
MikeYork5
Well-known member
There ya go again MJR -lol. Well, if Sonny said it (out of the mouth of babes) --- it's got to be so!
Orient_Express
Fire Base Ripcord Association
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MikeYork5,
If you wants some chicks - PM me. I'll let ya' borrow the 59 Tiger... Just a minute... Girls - now quit that- this is my best pair of....!!!
See what I mean!!
If you wants some chicks - PM me. I'll let ya' borrow the 59 Tiger... Just a minute... Girls - now quit that- this is my best pair of....!!!
See what I mean!!
MikeYork5
Well-known member
I'll take ANY and ALL the help I can get. Hell, even the Duc doesn't warrant anything more than passsive glance from the opposite sex. I'm beginning to think it might not be the bikes fault - :blink:
Niehart
Pie Smuggler
So does that mean the you guys don't like me & my 1984 Harley Davidson Sportster XL1000 and I'm thinking about buy a 2001 Harley Duce?
Orient_Express
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Get a Dyna or a Fat boy - If ya' can't afford one of those - go for a Triumph America...
v65
ouch
Don't buy the Deuce. I love those bikes, breaks my heart every time I see someone else with one.
DailyCommuter
Illegitimi Non Carborundum
I don't know about the rest of the country, But in my little neck of Massachusetts... Everywhere I ride If I pass someone else on a bike I throw out my left hand for a wave. With very little exception, every rider of every other brand of motorcycle either reciprocates the wave or beats me to it. Hell when I took the basic rider course through MSF. the instructor even taught us the proper technicque for the wave. That being said, I have passed hundreds if not thousands of other bikes in all my many miles and Harley Riders are the most unfriendly bunch of riders out there. You rarely ever even get an acknowledgment that you exist let alone the token wave. Now why is that. Seriously. Why do they feel so damn superior. Or whatever the feeling they have. I'm not talking about biker gangs here. I'm talking about the rest the other 99% of Harley riders on the road. Christ I saw a guy in a white button down and a pair of khaki's with his silk tie blowing up over his shoulder riding his hog home in the afternoon commute the other day with his loafers firmly panted on the highway pegs. He had the same attitude. It's like at the dealership the have to sign some unfriendly promise. Does this happen in other parts of the country. I gotta know. Maybe I'll move to the land of Happy Harley, instead of here. The worst or best example of this(depending on how you view it) was the day I went out of my way, even after years of jilted waves, to stop and ask a guy who was obviously having trouble(his tool bag laid out next to the bike.) Can I give you a hand, you need a phone or anything, I got tools... I was cut short with an abrupt NO! Not from you. WTF buddy. OK I said with a smile, just trying to help a fellow rider..."I don't need your help." Hey believe me I get grumpy when shit doesn't go right for me too, But I'd never treat someone offering to help me like that. I dont want to go on in a rant, but shit, you gotta start to feel some way downright offended at the attitude after a while.
rayban
Grouchy old fat guy
Your fault there is that you care about such jackasses in the first place. I'd have just turned and said "your loss" or nothing at all. I believe in stopping too, but I keep it pretty simple. Offer once, refuse once, conversation ended.
Everyone has their reasons, and like you said, there's never a reason to be uncivil, even under stress. But on the flipside, I view it like you offered, which is more than some would even do, so past that, the ball is in their court.
We have plenty of dicks in the rice burner community, and in the end, it probably comes close to balancing out in the great Karma balance beam in the sky, but I agree that HD has the most successful consumer brainwashing (marketing/sales) techniques and philosophies of all brands. But that's mostly evolution. If you have, at the core, a product that can't compete on price or quality, you sure as hell BETTER come up with some other angle (the "mystique") or you're dead, period. So, I don't begrudge them a thing. I call an animal what it is and respect it for it. That includes Harley zombies.
Everyone has their reasons, and like you said, there's never a reason to be uncivil, even under stress. But on the flipside, I view it like you offered, which is more than some would even do, so past that, the ball is in their court.
We have plenty of dicks in the rice burner community, and in the end, it probably comes close to balancing out in the great Karma balance beam in the sky, but I agree that HD has the most successful consumer brainwashing (marketing/sales) techniques and philosophies of all brands. But that's mostly evolution. If you have, at the core, a product that can't compete on price or quality, you sure as hell BETTER come up with some other angle (the "mystique") or you're dead, period. So, I don't begrudge them a thing. I call an animal what it is and respect it for it. That includes Harley zombies.
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you musta been in need of serious help, then.
unless you meant you rode on a nekkid bike, in the winter, in your birfday soot.
