FJRF009.0: Ground Spider Research

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I HAVE MY PLAN OF ACTION...
After researching, reading prior posts here, and giving this a bunch of thought, I feel I have a solution for setting my mind at ease about this problem. I hope others will benefit from all our work. Hopefully, Yamaha will intervene before I actually get through all 3 steps.

ROOT CAUSE: To me, it is obvious what the problem is here. The downstream ground spiders are simply getting overloaded. The wiring table shows which ones are worse off than the others (see Rev 04 in reply 287). Over time, a little corrosion pushes the overloaded terminals beyond their limits (in a degraded state) and things melt down.

A CAUTION: I don’t plan to do anything with spiders S2 or S5 (other than applying a little dielectric grease is prevent corrosion when accessible) since some wires in there are part of closed loop control circuits with isolated grounds. Since I don’t fully understand the logic inside those “black boxes” (the controllers), I don’t feel it’s necessary to mess with them and risk tampering with a feedback signal that could ultimately lead to safety issues someday. I also believe they are carrying much less current than the rest of the ground spiders so they are of no real threat of failure.

PLAN OF ACTION: Remember, this is my plan, based on the supplies I have at my disposal, my remaining YES warranty, and the current condition of my bike (low mileage). In general, applying dielectic grease to any connection on a bike is a good prevention against future corrosion.

Step 1: Build one “5-INTO-1” repair spider connector as shown below and install it when I lift the tank to replace spark plugs. I just happen to have a spare spider and cap from the damaged portion of the front cowling harness so I can prepare the spider with ground lead prior to tearing into the bike. It wouldn’t take long to make one once the bike is apart though. I will not know exactly where to ground it on the chassis until I open it up, so I will solder on a long length of wire so I can cut-to-fit and crimp the ring terminal during installation. I’m in need of a spark plug change in the very near future so this will be an opportune time to do this step. This extra ground wire helps reduce the current flowing through spider S4-Pin3, the actual battery ground, where I believe the true trouble lies. This will eliminate a majority of the meltdown risk.

Step 2: Build two Y-connectors for the radiator fan motors (see below). I think this is important if you sit in traffic a lot and your fans come on often. These could also be prepared ahead of time, and be available when I’m ready to pull the side panels. As agreed upon by several forum members, they effectively will take the fan motor current (10A) completely out of the original ground loop AND add 2 additional ground paths to S4. At this time, I could remove the grounding spider wire installed in Step 1 since it is now redundant.

Step 3: If Yamaha has still not intervened with a factory fix to my liking, I will buy the necessary parts to build a similar Y-harness for each headlight. Like the fans, it will remove the headlight current from the original ground circuit (another 10A) and provide two additional ground paths for the front cowling harness (one each for S7 and S8). Even though an extra connection is added to each headlight creating another possible failure point, I feel the risk of BOTH lights going out at the same time is relatively low, therefore not a concern to me.

With all this done, I doubt there will ever be another issue with the grounding system. Good luck in fixing your bike.

Now - it’s time for me to do some riding...

4325724251_78cdc06333.jpg


4326460400_a7a27b2af2.jpg
Interesting. However, you don't say that you are going to provide a ground wire for the S6 Spider, the one on the left side near the glove box, yet I think at least one owner reported that this connector failed, too. Will you solder a ground wire to that one?

 
I HAVE MY PLAN OF ACTION...
Step 2: Build two Y-connectors for the radiator fan motors (see below). I think this is important if you sit in traffic a lot and your fans come on often. These could also be prepared ahead of time, and be available when I’m ready to pull the side panels. As agreed upon by several forum members, they effectively will take the fan motor current (10A) completely out of the original ground loop AND add 2 additional ground paths to S4. At this time, I could remove the grounding spider wire installed in Step 1 since it is now redundant.

4326460400_a7a27b2af2.jpg
Thanks for all of the research and analysis that you and others have put into this issue. Regarding your Step 2, is it really necessary to cut the ground wire in the jumper and bring both ends out to ring terminals when it's conceivable that both will be connected to the same chassis ground? Would it be easier to crimp two wires into one terminal and bring a single ground wire out to a ring terminal, or even just use a Posi-Tap on the existing ground, with or without the jumper harness?

 
4326460400_a7a27b2af2.jpg
Interesting. However, you don't say that you are going to provide a ground wire for the S6 Spider, the one on the left side near the glove box, yet I think at least one owner reported that this connector failed, too. Will you solder a ground wire to that one?


By grounding the headlights to frame he is taking them out of the "chain" and lowering the current threw the S6 spider.

And by grounding the harness end to the frame at each light he is adding 2 more ground wires between the frame and S6 spider.

So after it's done the current going threw the S6 will be lower, the S6 spider will have 2 more wires going to the frame, and one wire (the original) going to frame threw the S4 spider. This should bring the current going threw both spiders way down.

I would prefer this aproach because it is lowering the current on the overloaded spiders and the wiring. Instead of fixing the spiders and hoping the wiring is capable. It is dealing with the overload at the sorce, instead of down steam. And it is done without altering the factory harness.

 
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I HAVE MY PLAN OF ACTION...
Step 2: Build two Y-connectors for the radiator fan motors (see below). I think this is important if you sit in traffic a lot and your fans come on often. These could also be prepared ahead of time, and be available when I’m ready to pull the side panels. As agreed upon by several forum members, they effectively will take the fan motor current (10A) completely out of the original ground loop AND add 2 additional ground paths to S4. At this time, I could remove the grounding spider wire installed in Step 1 since it is now redundant.

4326460400_a7a27b2af2.jpg
Thanks for all of the research and analysis that you and others have put into this issue. Regarding your Step 2, is it really necessary to cut the ground wire in the jumper and bring both ends out to ring terminals when it's conceivable that both will be connected to the same chassis ground? Would it be easier to crimp two wires into one terminal and bring a single ground wire out to a ring terminal, or even just use a Posi-Tap on the existing ground, with or without the jumper harness?
What ever floats your boat. The end result is the same.

 
I HAVE MY PLAN OF ACTION...
Step 2: Build two Y-connectors for the radiator fan motors (see below). I think this is important if you sit in traffic a lot and your fans come on often. These could also be prepared ahead of time, and be available when I’m ready to pull the side panels. As agreed upon by several forum members, they effectively will take the fan motor current (10A) completely out of the original ground loop AND add 2 additional ground paths to S4. At this time, I could remove the grounding spider wire installed in Step 1 since it is now redundant.

4326460400_a7a27b2af2.jpg
Thanks for all of the research and analysis that you and others have put into this issue. Regarding your Step 2, is it really necessary to cut the ground wire in the jumper and bring both ends out to ring terminals when it's conceivable that both will be connected to the same chassis ground? Would it be easier to crimp two wires into one terminal and bring a single ground wire out to a ring terminal, or even just use a Posi-Tap on the existing ground, with or without the jumper harness?
Your methods would work fine, given the proper wire size. Thanks for offering them up for others to consider. The existing extension harness I have available, however, has small 18ga wires in it and I prefer each of them to go directly to the chassis. (Edit - Just noticed my table shows 16ga for one of the headlights. Will have to check - I suspect that's an error)

 
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This question is a bit late, but have conection points to frame ground for the s4 conector been tight and without corrosion? Also, are star washers used and maybe even stainless?

This is a remarkable read!!

Thank you all.

Fred

 
By grounding the headlights to frame he is taking them out of the "chain" and lowering the current threw the S6 spider.And by grounding the harness end to the frame at each light he is adding 2 more ground wires between the frame and S6 spider.

So after it's done the current going threw the S6 will be lower, the S6 spider will have 2 more wires going to the frame, and one wire (the original) going to frame threw the S4 spider. This should bring the current going threw both spiders way down.

I would prefer this aproach because it is lowering the current on the overloaded spiders and the wiring. Instead of fixing the spiders and hoping the wiring is capable. It is dealing with the overload at the sorce, instead of down steam. And it is done without altering the factory harness.
road runner - since taking the high current components out of the harness ground circuit was your idea, it was no doubt you could answer this correctly. Thx for saving me the typing.

 
When I look at the diagram I have access to (for a USA '06 AE), it shows a ground connector where you indicate "a critical connection", far left of my picture (it may be on your diagram but cut off):

groundconnectorquery.jpg


Looks unlike a spider connector. As you suggest, it seems to be where all the other grounds come back to the wire between battery negative and chassis (which would certainly make it critical!).

Do we know what type of connector this is, whether it's ever given a problem, and where it is? Seems to me it would be well worth checking out.
Gen II harness at the battery, you can see the two wire grounding connector on the negative battery lead. The Evil Black Widow Spider starts here.

GenIIBattery.jpg


As opposed to the Gen I battery cables:

GenIBattery.jpg


 
...Gen II harness at the battery, you can see the two wire grounding connector on the negative battery lead. The Evil Black Widow Spider starts here.

GenIIBattery.jpg


...
Thanks for the heads-up.

So all the ground current passes through the connector to the right of your picture? I shall certainly be checking mine next time I'm in there for any signs of corrosion or heating, but as it's a more conventional plug and socket, I would think there's less chance of it causing a problem than the spiders.

 
The BLACK WIDOW indeed...

I decided to open up S4 and what did I find? She was just waiting in silence for her chance to strike...

4328242579_b5ea6d273f_o.jpg


 
The BLACK WIDOW indeed...
I decided to open up S4 and what did I find? She was just waiting in silence for her chance to strike...

4328242579_b5ea6d273f_o.jpg
Here is the answer!

RED BACK SPIDER ANTIVENOM

Red Back Spider Antivenom AUST R 74893

CONSUMER PRODUCT INFORMATION

WHAT IS IN THIS LEAFLET?

This leaflet contains information

about Red Back Spider Antivenom.

Please read it carefully and keep it

for future reference. The

information in this leaflet is only a

summary and is not intended to

replace advice from your Yamaha dealer.

Please consult your dealer or

FJR forum if you have any

comments or questions.

 
I got paranoid about S4 spider, so I pulled her apart. S4 looks fine along with several others. 3 yr old 2007 Florida bike with almost 40k. Not sure if I am going to add a ground wire to S4 and/or ground the fans? I am packing the other spiders with die electric. The spiders are alot smaller than I thought. Only about the size of the end of my small finger.

At least I have peace of mind the spiders are fine along with removing lots of Canada and Alaska road dirt!!!

 
...Gen II harness at the battery, you can see the two wire grounding connector on the negative battery lead. The Evil Black Widow Spider starts here.

GenIIBattery.jpg


...
Thanks for the heads-up.

So all the ground current passes through the connector to the right of your picture? I shall certainly be checking mine next time I'm in there for any signs of corrosion or heating, but as it's a more conventional plug and socket, I would think there's less chance of it causing a problem than the spiders.
In the main harness, the mating half of the connector on the right has a solid black color wire in it (10ga?) which shows continuity to both the Rect/Reg, item 2 in schematic (also 10ga wire), and over to spider S4-Pin3 (16ga?). There must be a splice buried inside the harness somewhere where the ground bus (spider) circuit breaks off. I've seen splices in other sections where the wires are exposed on my spare harness.

 
Referring to the diagram in post #304 by RZ350:

Does anyone have the connector mfg and number for the necessary two wire and three wire connectors to make up the harnesses?

 
Wow, 10,000 views on this thread.

Sir Winston Churchill quote:

Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

Thanks to all that have contributed to this thread.

 
Before I take a “backseat” on this and watch this thread from a distance, I wanted to personally say sorry to [SIZE=12pt]bramfrank[/SIZE], since my efforts (along with many others) may actually hurt the chances of Yamaha issuing a recall by showing owner’s how to prevent the failure in the first place. I respect what you are trying to do and I strongly encourage anyone experiencing the problem to report it through the proper channels, so the rest of us benefit from it. I’m still hoping that Yamaha will issue a recall soon before I do any major work on my own bike.

The main goal of my contribution was to help Yamaha “see the light” and maybe keep a few of us (including myself) from being stranded along the road someday, or worse. I only hope you can respect that viewpoint, as well.

 
Before I take a “backseat” on this and watch this thread from a distance, I wanted to personally say sorry to [SIZE=12pt]bramfrank[/SIZE], since my efforts (along with many others) may actually hurt the chances of Yamaha issuing a recall by showing owner’s how to prevent the failure in the first place.
You have done nothing that requires an apology to anyone. You have done a good thing by independently documenting the construction of the ground spider arrangement, which provides a crystal-clear explanation of what is causing the melted spiders. What effect disclosing this information has on owners or Yamaha is entirely up to them. I will choose to protect my own interests however I see fit, as I suspect every FJR owner will, whether you had gone to all that effort or not.

If there is anyone at Yamaha who is reading this, the least they could do is run your spreadsheets past someone who has passed their 1st year EE coursework.

Thanks again for your good work.

 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I still haven't seen anyone report a spider problem on an'08 or an '09. I was at the dealer today and I was told an '07 wiring harness has a different part # than an '08 but that doesn't show the spider issue is any different. Any thoughts?

 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I still haven't seen anyone report a spider problem on an'08 or an '09. I was at the dealer today and I was told an '07 wiring harness has a different part # than an '08 but that doesn't show the spider issue is any different. Any thoughts?
RoadRunner III reported a spider failure on his 2008 ABS FJR in July 2009. Scroll back, you can read his post yourself.

 
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