FJRForum Official 2015 Iron Butt Rally Tracking/Analysis thread

[Bill 310]

Fascinating SPOT discussion from both sides of the aisle - users and viewers. Many thanks for the insights and forum to view all that is going on. Addictive. Gonna be even later for work today.
What I'm curious about is how/if the advent of electronics has changed how rally masters concieve or develop their plans. Have they had to step their game to ensure their puzzles stay ahead of the tools to solve them?

These are my thoughts in your question.

There are a few different groups riding in the Rally.

1. Those who make it part of their semiannual vacation plan (seriously) and just ride the the rally for the heck of it. This doesn't mean that they don't try to do well but the Rally is a well planned vacation/adventure that they can take part in, to them it is the ultimate vacation.

2. The larger group are people in their first IBR and who's goal is to just finish , get their 3 digit IBA Number and do their best in a strange new world.

The third group is the hard core group of 15-20 riders who battle it out for the top spots. They have natural ability at the rally game are gifted in rallying and compete against themselves and the RallyMaster. In 2013 a few riders out routed Tom Austin and the experienced cadre who practice routed the rally. Riders on their bikes riding to bonuses figured out that Pike's Peak and the Pony Express Stations were both doable on the same leg.

The puzzles are still going to be the time distance equation, the big factors that can't be measured in advance is the state of the weather and road conditions. This is a variable that two riders an hour apart may have to face differently with one being advantaged and the other not so much

The internet makes the discovery of potential rally bonuses in a complex rally theme somewhat simpler, but in the end if a big bonus is an 800 mile slog in and out on a gravel road or involves two border crossings the problem solving on both sides of the table becomes more difficult. For the RallyMaster is the bonus achievable by some, all, or a specific group of the riders and for the riders are they going to try for a bonus because it makes sense or because it does't and if it doesn't is it doable and therefore will other take the bait and accumulate a significant amount of bonus points..

One of the Bonuses that would have worked in 2011 and would have been an interesting bonus and the equivalent to Prudhoe Bay required two long Ferry Crossing and the margin for error was so tight that if a rider missed the exit Ferry they would miss the Finisher's banquet by 2-3 days. If that bonus was going to be in a rally someone would have had to ride the ferry go to the bonus and then make the return ferry.

Everything would have to work , the location of the finish , the location of the prior checkpoint and the ferry schedule that wouldn't change in the next two years.

The great thing about the Rally is that both sides constantly step up their game , it is evolutionary and it remains in existence for the rider's benefit , challenge and enjoyment.

We are getting near the finish and this is about the time that the rookies will pull out their ear plugs and the constant friction will have by now caused enough roughness that bleeding will have begun inside their ears. The little bit of blood will have made their inner ear skin one with their ear plugs. Ear plug removal will tear the flesh away and ear plug insertion will be just a delightful. For the Rally vets, they will have been putting Neosporin or something similar in their ears since day 5 and they will not remember that experience.

 

[nankoweap]

[nankoweap: please correct any erroneous information below ...]
If you click on the rider's marker, a window opens with the travel direction: bearing. I suspect/guess/speculate that it's instantaneous, meaning if you're on a cloverleaf ramp, the marker would say NNE when you're only headed NNE for a few milliseconds.

Spotwalla has several items that can be displayed it that window -- settings available to the user or Spotwalla admin. For example, I activate "speed" on my markers so family can see if I'm rolling along or stopped.

Some devices like the DeLorme InReach supply speed data in the location data. AFAIK, speed data is accurate.

Other devices like SPOTs do not provide speed data. So SpotWalla calculates speed based on straight-line distance and time difference between the current and previous locations. Obviously, this calculation is only as accurate as the road traveled is straight. So the intention of this data is to let the viewer know the user is moving.

The bearing information is calculated for all messages and is based on the current and previous locations.

Regarding popups and location data in general... I've exposed a lot of security settings to the user so they can control the degree of exposure. So both users and ride organizers determine the amount of information that's displayed to the general public or even *if* information is displayed to the general public.

If the IBA wanted to remove public viewing of the IBR and still track riders privately and internally, we could do that in a matter of seconds.

 

[Ignacio]

In 2013 a few riders out routed Tom Austin and the experienced cadre who practice routed the rally. Riders on their bikes riding to bonuses figured out that Pike's Peak and the Pony Express Stations were both doable on the same leg.

Two of the funnest and stressful days of my life. It was like figuring out an Easter egg on Nintendo for the first time....all by yourself....and the coins just kept coming.

 

[AVGeek]

Day 10 is up!

https://www.ironbuttrally.com/IBR/2015/Day10.pdf

 

[CraigRegs]

We are getting near the finish and this is about the time that the rookies will pull out their ear plugs and the constant friction will have by now caused enough roughness that bleeding will have begun inside their ears. The little bit of blood will have made their inner ear skin one with their ear plugs. Ear plug removal will tear the flesh away and ear plug insertion will be just a delightful. For the Rally vets, they will have been putting Neosporin or something similar in their ears since day 5 and they will not remember that experience.

THIS is the kind of insight I love to have from the vets. Well, perhaps a little less graphic, but still, who's going to know about this except someone who has lived it?

 

[JimNtexas]

It was pretty disappointing to read that a fan crashed while trying to intercept a rally rider. I really enjoy following the SPOT tracks, and that's just the kind of thing that could get them taken down.

 

[Uncle Hud]

nankoweap posted: Some devices like the DeLorme InReach supply speed data in the location data. AFAIK, speed data is accurate.
Other devices like SPOTs do not provide speed data. So SpotWalla calculates speed based on straight-line distance and time difference between the current and previous locations. Obviously, this calculation is only as accurate as the road traveled is straight. So the intention of this data is to let the viewer know the user is moving.

The bearing information is calculated for all messages and is based on the current and previous locations.

Regarding popups and location data in general... I've exposed a lot of security settings to the user so they can control the degree of exposure. So both users and ride organizers determine the amount of information that's displayed to the general public or even *if* information is displayed to the general public.

If the IBA wanted to remove public viewing of the IBR and still track riders privately and internally, we could do that in a matter of seconds.

Thanks for the background information! I avail myself of your 'security zone' setting: omitting locations within 2 miles of my house. Those with whom I share my Spotwalla tracks already know where I live; I don't want those with evil intent -- like ISIS assassins -- to find that out.

Don't kid yourself. The accuracy of modern GPS locators (even in a cell phone) is truly amazing, as we have been reminded by this thread.

 

[Tyler]

.

For all of the armchair observers watching along here, if you've never done a rally, try one! Find a shorter 8 hour or 32 hour event if you're up to the challenge! Don't just sit there and ride your desk chair get out and play. It's actually a lot of fun and even educational.

I did an 8-hour rally last year at one of the FJRforum gatherings... I got the bonus pack a week in advance because I was a newbie... I had at least six different route/bonus options and kept changing my mind every couple of hours... do I go for the big points or do I go for quantity? My mind was reeling... I can't imagine trying to figure out an 11-day route on the fly... I'd probably look something like this before I even got out of the parking lot...

Which is why I will not, in this lifetime, be an IBR participant... I just don't have what it takes to do this but man-oh-man do I love to watch and totally respect those that are doing it. BTW, I DNF'd on that 8-hour rally... partly because I bit off more than I could chew so I can imagine a tiny bit of maybe what some of the riders are going through... "oh, yeah, I can totally do that"... then traffic or weather or mechanical issues, etc. rear their ugly head and you're off your plan and gotta figure it out on the fly.

One of the things that I really like about the BMR is it's like a bunch of smaller rallies over several months that I get to plan for myself... I can take my time, route, add/delete as I go, and there isn't a big time pressure... and I've learned a lot over the past two years about planning, changes on the fly, and realistic expectations... plus I have found some real gems in my own backyard. B)

Maybe I'll look into another 8- or 12-hour rally in the coming year and see if I can actually finish it! :lol:

 

[Uncle Lumpy]

It was pretty disappointing to read that a fan crashed while trying to intercept a rally rider. I really enjoy following the SPOT tracks, and that's just the kind of thing that could get them taken down.

Agreed. Maybe Jason and the IBA leadership should put the public SPOT page on a 1- to 2-hour delay. This would still allow all of us to watch and speculate as to riders' intentions while making it much less likely that you'll have folks attempting to intercept rolling riders. (I have little problem with fans waiting at known bonus locations to greet and cheer riders.) Just a thought.

Lumpy

 

[Ignacio]

It was pretty disappointing to read that a fan crashed while trying to intercept a rally rider. I really enjoy following the SPOT tracks, and that's just the kind of thing that could get them taken down.

Exactly. The report points very specifically at a SPOT chaser.

The absolutely infuriating issue with Daryl's situation is that the incompetent motorcyclist whose crash upset him so turned out to be an IBR "fan" chasing down rider spot tracks apparently in an attempt to addition for JackAss 45. the idiot later posted his x-rays to Facebook showing the hardware store of parts now installed in his foot and ankle.

So, I do ask any folks that might be watching here and tempted to go see a rider go by PLEASE exercise the utmost caution to not interfere with or risk their ride in ANY way. While I'm sure (or vainly hope) this was an aberration--trying to ride up along side somebody in traffic is probably not the best idea and probably safer to catch them stopped at a bonus or at a gas stop.

 

[robeth]

So, I do ask any folks that might be watching here and tempted to go see a rider go by PLEASE exercise the utmost caution to not interfere with or risk their ride in ANY way. While I'm sure (or vainly hope) this was an aberration--trying to ride up along side somebody in traffic is probably not the best idea and probably safer to catch them stopped at a bonus or at a gas stop.

Our solution to this problem was to just go to the checkpoint and observe. My grandkids and I got to see ALL the riders, ALL their bikes up close (after they had scored and parked, of course) and actually speak to many riders and staff......a priceless experience for us. Even an 8 year old and a 10 year old can easily understand the importance of not interfering and maintaining a safe environment for everyone.

Thanks to all ralliers for allowing us a peak into this fascinating world.

 

[discochris]

One rider is heading for Grand Portage. That's a long slow ride...

 

[08FJR4ME]

The few spots on the outskirts need to get a move on. Time is running short.

Dave

 

[puppychow]

I agree on the SPOT chasing. It is tempting. On my return route hone from ABQ, I saw at least a couple spot tracks right next to me when I was stopped. The first time was when a couple riders stopped to rest for the night next to where I was stopped. The next morning I got up early and walked over, but I missed that connection. No harm no foul, would have been good to share a word or two of encouragement and get out of their way.

The other opportunity was at a gas and quick sandwich grab stop and I saw a rider coming my way, but not immediately. I had a choice to wait and watch him pass, or let him catch up to me, if he really was going my way (Great basin), I chose the latter, unfortunately the rider never caught up, and though I checked spot at a gas stop along the way, I was going to ride my ride and not slow down for an intercept. Oh well - I am a lousy fan...

 

[NMRoadRunner]

So who here is planning on being at the Sheraton Inn in ABQ next Friday morning at 5AM? I am going to be there to welcome Josh. Myself and the others involved feel a kinship with our IBA brother, after rebuilding his forks during the first check point rest period. I haven't heard about any more problems with his front end which is good because his warranty period has past, too many damn miles.

See you at the finish line Josh, Ride hard brother!

 

[RenoJohn]

Third leg (final) results are now available on the countdown page.
Not an easy task, these riders and this event are both amazing and the math and analysis has been intense.
Big thanks to the many, including Voni Glaves who contributed mathematical, spiritual and karma analysis.

Please don't view if you don't want to see final results, please continue to cheer *ALL* these amazing riders safely back to Albuquerque !

Countdown Page (results at bottom)

 

[puppychow]

I haven't heard the fat lady sing yet...

 

[Uncle Hud]

She hasn't; it's RenoJohn who's singing. Tonight's biker movie looks interesting.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Thanks John.. Great Movie bonus, but it's off topic u azz!

 

[russperry]

nankoweap posted: Some devices like the DeLorme InReach supply speed data in the location data. AFAIK, speed data is accurate.
Other devices like SPOTs do not provide speed data. So SpotWalla calculates speed based on straight-line distance and time difference between the current and previous locations. Obviously, this calculation is only as accurate as the road traveled is straight. So the intention of this data is to let the viewer know the user is moving.

The bearing information is calculated for all messages and is based on the current and previous locations.

Regarding popups and location data in general... I've exposed a lot of security settings to the user so they can control the degree of exposure. So both users and ride organizers determine the amount of information that's displayed to the general public or even *if* information is displayed to the general public.

If the IBA wanted to remove public viewing of the IBR and still track riders privately and internally, we could do that in a matter of seconds.

Thanks for the background information! I avail myself of your 'security zone' setting: omitting locations within 2 miles of my house. Those with whom I share my Spotwalla tracks already know where I live; I don't want those with evil intent -- like ISIS assassins -- to find that out.

Don't kid yourself. The accuracy of modern GPS locators (even in a cell phone) is truly amazing, as we have been reminded by this thread.

I agree that the accuracy is pretty darn good - maybe not military grade but certainly good enough to find someone in the parking lot of a National Park for example. I think the biggest thing that adds to the CEP of the SPOT reports in the IBR tracking is the uncertainly of when the report is made and when it shows up on the web site tracker. Lots of conversation about how you have to try and guess where someone will be 20-30 minutes ahead if you're trying to intercept.

I think I agree though with previous posters that the maybe the best way to support the riders would be to stake out a bonus location and just trust that you might see a few, rather than try to intercept while underway - less threatening, apparently safer, and less subject to the unknown of report timing.