Linked and ABS Equipped Motorcycles

[Scab]

agreed

 

[antvq]

Just my 2 cents worth......

Cut to 1982....cruising up the parking aisle of a store when some jagoff in a hopped up Mustang comes ripping around the corner fishtailing and obviously not in control. No where to go. Locked the back brake to slide the back end around and laid my new Suzuki GS650E (man, I loved that bike!) down.....on my leg no less. OUCH! Mustang finally comes to a halt with the front bumper right over the bike and me. Ever since then I was convinced that there was a need to be able to lock up at least the rear at least on rare occasions.

Fast forward to '04 when I order Miss Blue. No, I say, I'm not paying extra for the ABS. Fast forward to '05. Wet road, leaves, rear end locking up and sliding even though I'm just breathing heavy on the pedal. Don't DARE touch the front. Exciting ride that. Now I wish I HAD paid the extra for the ABS. Seems that I've really needed to lock up the back once in my entire life. I would have loved to have ABS a lot more times that that!

 

[HouFJR]

I don't think you ever NEED to lock up the rear on the road, much less lay 'er down. A locked wheel doesn't slow you as effectively as one that's not locked, and steel, aluminum, and plastic don't create nearly as much friction when sliding.

I've heard the anti-ABS excuses. I seriously doubt that the majority of the folks who think they can outbrake an ABS system can actually do so. Even under perfect conditions. And once you throw any variable into the equation (wet, need to swerve, leaves, pothole, etc.) all bets are off.

In an emergency, NOT having to consciously modulate the brakes is a very good thing. You've got other things to focus on.

And the argument about "what if it fails and you're not prepared" seems silly to me. I don't think optimizing your ride for 0.001% of the time is smarter than optimizing for 99.999%.

 

[Dallara]

And the argument about "what if it fails and you're not prepared" seems silly to me. I don't think optimizing your ride for 0.001% of the time is smarter than optimizing for 99.999%.

So, am I to assume you do not wear a helmet, gloves, boots, other protective riding gear, etc. when you ride?

i.e. - "There's about a 99.999% chance I won't get involved in a motorcycle crash so I might as well not wear any protective gear..."

Just curious...

Dallara

 

[ionbeam]

So, am I to assume you do not wear a helmet, gloves, boots, other protective riding gear, etc. when you ride?
i.e. - "There's about a 99.999% chance I won't get involved in a motorcycle crash so I might as well not wear any protective gear..."

Just curious...

Dallara

Now that's just not right :dribble:

Of course the correct answer is to wear your gear, but disconnect your brakes :assassin:

Dallara, have ya noticed that we're a tough sell? :lol:

 

[Dallara]

So, am I to assume you do not wear a helmet, gloves, boots, other protective riding gear, etc. when you ride?
i.e. - "There's about a 99.999% chance I won't get involved in a motorcycle crash so I might as well not wear any protective gear..."

Just curious...

Dallara

Now that's just not right :dribble:

Of course the correct answer is to wear your gear, but disconnect your brakes :assassin:

Dallara, have ya noticed that we're a tough sell? :lol:

Hell, I love tough sells! After all, I'm in the car business!

And notice - I never said to disconnect your brakes. I just wanna' disconnect the ABS on MY own 2006 FJR... Nobody elses.

It's just that when HouFJR said:

And the argument about "what if it fails and you're not prepared" seems silly to me. I don't think optimizing your ride for 0.001% of the time is smarter than optimizing for 99.999%.

I thought it was kind'a funny... After all, don't most all of us *Dress for the Crash, Not for the Ride"??? I imagine most here have ridded a ton (and the real serious LDR guys, a ton upon a ton upon a ton...), yet have not crashed much, if at all. Hence, I figure the more experienced riders around here have about a 0.001% chance of crashing.

I think you get my drift...

And along those lines, there are definitely days I do not mess with ATGATT. I'll be wearing jeans and a regular ol' short-sleeved shirt and decide to ride over to one of the M/C shops, or over to a friend's house... and all I do is throw on my riding boots, gloves, and a helmet (and some days it's even my open-faced, comp-shielded Arai). Guess we all simply decide to accept the level of risk we are prepared to take...

Heaven forbid, if riding without ABS is so dangerous, so fraught with absolute peril and impending doom, I guess I should never ride my non-ABS BMW or Honda... And just forget altogether about buying an ol' used KR-650 and that new Ducati HyperMotard I am lusting after, eh? :lol:

Dallara

 

[Bearly Flying]

There has already been several reports of ABS warning lights flashing on other threads on this board, I believe Radio Howie's was traced down to a couple of speed bumps causing the warning. Another was suspected wiring connectors.

Now you gotta ask yourself, after just mashing on the rear brake trusting the ABS is going to work, is today the day the ABS warning light is going to just stay on instead of blink???

If it stay's on, your pretty well on your way to a highside, and you can kiss your ass goodbye.

(Well Punk, Do you feel Lucky Today??)

Ya gotta love Clint.....

 

[Woodstock]

Now you gotta ask yourself, after just mashing on the rear brake trusting the ABS is going to work, is today the day the ABS warning light is going to just stay on instead of blink???

...being pro-ABS, does not mean that you always just grab/stomp the brake as hard as you can. It means having an extra level of backup, not as a replacement for good braking technique.

Sort of like owning a gun doesn't mean you leave the front door unlocked. :assassin:

 

[Bearly Flying]

I would bet money most of the riders with ABS get pretty complacent after a short period of time, and use more back brake than they should and not enough of their front brakes. Especially if they are coming off a cruiser or hardly. Most of the sportbike guy's are more used to using the front brake. IMHO.

 

[Woodstock]

I would bet money most of the riders with ABS get pretty complacent after a short period of time, and use more back brake than they should and not enough of their front brakes. Especially if they are coming off a cruiser or hardly. Most of the sportbike guy's are more used to using the front brake. IMHO.

I may take you up ont that bet. I would guess that most people with ABS rarley (if ever) activate the ABS, unless they're trying to - just for fun to see if it works. That's the way it is with me, anyway.

I don't think that people "get stupid" just because they have ABS.

(I don't forget to lock my front door at night)

 

[Dallara]

I may take you up on that bet. I would guess that most people with ABS rarley (if ever) activate the ABS, unless they're trying to - just for fun to see if it works. That's the way it is with me, anyway.
I don't think that people "get stupid" just because they have ABS.

(I don't forget to lock my front door at night)

Maybe you're right, but...

I get into the '06 FJR's FRONT ABS all the time just riding the twisties, on corner entry, up in the Texas Hill Country, which is one of the reason I think the FJR's ABS *threshold* is configured to actuate waaaaaaay too early. I have ridden up there for decades, on all sorts of of non-ABS bikes, and never locked a wheel going into any corner on, say... 335, 336, or 337. I've gotten front tires to howl like a bitch going in, but never locked... even trail-braking 'em all the way to the apex.

BTW, I rarely, if ever use the rear brake for retardation going into a corner, though I will use it to settle the rear end sometimes, or even more rarely to initiate and oversteer condition on entry...

OTOH, I get into the front ABS on the FJR so often that it's annoying as hell. I KNOW there is a lot more brake there prior to lock-up, but the ABS won't let me utilize it. I have found you can sort of *fool* the ABS but getting it actuated, then releasing the brake lever some, and then getting into it hard again... It's almost like the ABS system gets confused then, and doesn't know whether to actuate or not for a second or two, and you can get the brakes to work much harder.

Yeah, I know... I'm gonna' get lots of rolling eyes and cries of BS, but just come on out there and I'll be happy to show ya'. We got a large Texas contingent here, so the next time some of you fellow Texan FJR riders are heading up to the Hill Country let me know and I'll try to meet ya' up there... And if any of you want to get on the list for our groups regular Hill Country and Big Bend/Ft. Davis rides just PM me with your e-mail address.

Again, folks... I'm not saying that ABS may not be right for you. I have just been saying all along that the ABS on the FJR limits me doing certain things I want to do with the bike and effects how I ride it, so I want to hopefully make it where I can disable it at will, and without any errant side effects...

Thanks!

Dallara

 

[Mike-H]

Dallara...I understand what your saying....I don't have or really want abs (mainly because I think it takes away from your riding skills & makes you sloppy & lazy)....but as a racer I hate, absolutely can not stand linked braking....& before anyone replys on that....think....race bikes don't have it for a reason....that's 1 of the main reasons I didn't buy an appliance (read st1100 or 1300)....oh ya.... (for the record rear brake 25-30% stopping power....front 70-75% stopping power)....ask any pro racer about linked brakes....

 

[Hoog]

So Dallara, you're saying you don't like the ABS on your FJR? :dntknw:

 

[Woodstock]

Perhaps I'm pointing out the obvious here, but the FJR is not a race bike. Not even close.

I would think that you're limted more by the extra 200+ lbs of bike, or by the need for ST tires, than by ABS or linked brakes.

 

[Dallara]

Right, Hoog.

I don't like the ABS on my FJR, and as I have said multiple times, if I can find a way to disable it easily that doesn't cause any untoward side effects, I will.

Simple as that...

Woodstock,

Doesn't matter what I'm riding, I still try and extract the highest level of cornering performance I can from it with my level of skills. I never said I was a world champion, or anything even remotely close, but I did race competitively against a few who went on to become world champions. One of the reasons I ride a motorcycle is to continue to learn about how they handle and why, and to learn about myself handling them. I ride pretty intensely focused. Just being out joy-riding, sniffing daisies is not fun riding for me.

I bought the FJR because the nearest true twisty roads are 200 miles away, and riding up there and back via the only route - the superslab - on my unfaired BMW R-1150-R was simply a drag... So much so I finally took to trailering it up. It was fun once there, but not fun in transit. I started shopping for something big, fast, faired, that carried a lot of fuel... Pretty much came down to the FJR, Honda ST-1300, BMW R-1150 or R-1200-RT, or the new or old version of BMW K-12-GT's. The Honda was out. Have ridden them before and don't care for 'em, at all. Beemers are all nice, but stupid expensive and have BMW's damnable, whining, wooden-feeling servo-assisted Integral ABS, and I couldn't stand the price penalty or the brakes on 'em. That left the FJR...

And I love it. It handles well, even though it's a bit portly and too long... I just don't like the ABS.

Do the extra 200 lbs. or ST tires bother me?

Not in the slightest, but then I was road racing Honda CB-750-F's, CB-900-F's, CBX's, and Kawasaki Z-1's at Texas World Speedway, Henderson, Aqua Fest, etc. back in the late '70's and early '80's... And all of them weighed at least 550 lbs. ready to ride, and we raced on narrow rims with Dunlop K-81, K-181, K-91, or 291, Michelin M45, Metzler ME77 or ME99, or Pirelli Phantom tires or the like, and with wimpy forks, shocks, and brakes...

You haven't lived until you have wobbled all the way around the banking on the old TWS road course on a Kawasaki Z-1 Superbike at over 150 MPH (fast in those days... ) and then had to dive off into the infield in turn one wide open... It was especially fun in the rain.

We would have killed to have something that handled as good as the FJR back then. It's easy to go fast on.

Dallara

 

[Mike-H]

Perhaps I'm pointing out the obvious here, but the FJR is not a race bike. Not even close.
I would think that you're limted more by the extra 200+ lbs of bike, or by the need for ST tires, than by ABS or linked brakes.

Woodstock....for me as I said it's the linked brakes....guess you've never gone fast enough to have a need to trail brake in a corner...(this isn't meant as a slight on your riding skills) :huh:

Right, Hoog.
I don't like the ABS on my FJR, and as I have said multiple times, if I can find a way to disable it easily that doesn't cause any untoward side effects, I will.

Simple as that...

Woodstock,

Doesn't matter what I'm riding, I still try and extract the highest level of cornering performance I can from it with my level of skills. I never said I was a world champion, or anything even remotely close, but I did race competitively against a few who went on to become world champions. One of the reasons I ride a motorcycle is to continue to learn about how they handle and why, and to learn about myself handling them. I ride pretty intensely focused. Just being out joy-riding, sniffing daisies is not fun riding for me.

I bought the FJR because the nearest true twisty roads are 200 miles away, and riding up there and back via the only route - the superslab - on my unfaired BMW R-1150-R was simply a drag... So much so I finally took to trailering it up. It was fun once there, but not fun in transit. I started shopping for something big, fast, faired, that carried a lot of fuel... Pretty much came down to the FJR, Honda ST-1300, BMW R-1150 or R-1200-RT, or the new or old version of BMW K-12-GT's. The Honda was out. Have ridden them before and don't care for 'em, at all. Beemers are all nice, but stupid expensive and have BMW's damnable, whining, wooden-feeling servo-assisted Integral ABS, and I couldn't stand the price penalty or the brakes on 'em. That left the FJR...

And I love it. It handles well, even though it's a bit portly and too long... I just don't like the ABS.

Do the extra 200 lbs. or ST tires bother me?

Not in the slightest, but then I was road racing Honda CB-750-F's, CB-900-F's, CBX's, and Kawasaki Z-1's at Texas World Speedway, Henderson, Aqua Fest, etc. back in the late '70's and early '80's... And all of them weighed at least 550 lbs. ready to ride, and we raced on narrow rims with Dunlop K-181 or K-91 tires or the like, and with wimpy forks, shocks, and brakes...

You haven't lived until you have wobbled all the way around the banking on the old TWS road course on a Kawasaki Z-1 Superbike at over 150 MPH (fast in those days... ) and then had to dive off into the infield in turn one wide open... It was especially fun in the rain.

We would have killed to have something that handled as good as the FJR back then. It's easy to go fast on.

Dallara

You forgot to mention the tires were world class bias plys (still have a euro spec 83 cb1100f)

 

[Hoog]

Dallara,

You do realize I was kidding right?

I know I've benefitted from ABS twice in the 50 thou I've put on the LT. Once at the end of an 800 mile day (two up loaded w/trailer), and once on a rainy early morning in Duluth. Who can say what would have happened without it, I know what happened with it, and let's just say I prefer to have it. Like you say, it's a personal thing.

 

[Fencer]

I would bet money most of the riders with ABS get pretty complacent after a short period of time, and use more back brake than they should and not enough of their front brakes. Especially if they are coming off a cruiser or hardly. Most of the sportbike guy's are more used to using the front brake. IMHO.

What?!?

Theres a brake in the back?!?

You learn sumtin new every day

 

[Windjammer]

I always thought I'd own an ABS equipped bike, but when fate presented me with a non-ABS '05, I wasn't disappointed at all. In fact, I didn't give the lack of this feature more than 2 seconds thought during my purchase. But then I'm not an ATGATT type of guy either. I ride the bike I'm in the mood for, and wear the gear I feel like wearing (or not wearing). If I want ABS, I just go ride my Norton - no way to lock the stock brakes on that thing!! But in all sincerity, I'm just not that worried about about being a safety nazi on myself.

Each to their own is my vote. If ya gotta have all that stuff, then there's plenty for you to buy. Go for it. If ya wanna ride without a helmet on an old KZ1000, I'll still ride with ya. And I won't give you a ration of shit about your personal choices.

 

[Mike-H]

Dallara,You do realize I was kidding right?

I know I've benefitted from ABS twice in the 50 thou I've put on the LT. Once at the end of an 800 mile day (two up loaded w/trailer), and once on a rainy early morning in Duluth. Who can say what would have happened without it, I know what happened with it, and let's just say I prefer to have it. Like you say, it's a personal thing.

Bike with a trailer....dude buy a car :blink: