cota95
RI Beach Pop
I look forward to this trip each year so I personally will be there regardless but I think it's good to get this out in the open. Thanks guys for all your efforts.
NAFO Fees
- Thread starter Fred W
- Start date
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Intech
Mr. Camping Meet
Refreshing to see some more positive comments. Thanks guys. I am going to talk to the hotel today and see if I can negotiate some cheaper meal options. It is apparent that the room rental is rolled into the prices I have. I will make every effort to lower the cost and refund the difference.
Big-D I hear what you are saying. We just had a great time last month at Wheaties camp out and yes it was cheap. The problem with a venue that can host a national event is that there is a lot of give and take. In order to negotiate a lowered room rate they expect revenue somewhere else. There are always options depending on the type of event you want to have. Yes a ride in and meet and fend for yourself otherwise may be the cheapest. If people don't want to have a formal banquet then that is fine with me. I know if I organize again I will put it out to a vote by the community as to what type of event they want before any commitments are made.
Fred - You can wear whatever you want to the banquet. Hell we might even have an award for the most inapproriate attire or something along those lines. :blink:
Big-D I hear what you are saying. We just had a great time last month at Wheaties camp out and yes it was cheap. The problem with a venue that can host a national event is that there is a lot of give and take. In order to negotiate a lowered room rate they expect revenue somewhere else. There are always options depending on the type of event you want to have. Yes a ride in and meet and fend for yourself otherwise may be the cheapest. If people don't want to have a formal banquet then that is fine with me. I know if I organize again I will put it out to a vote by the community as to what type of event they want before any commitments are made.
Fred - You can wear whatever you want to the banquet. Hell we might even have an award for the most inapproriate attire or something along those lines. :blink:
wheatonFJR
...
One option may be to remove one of the dinners...as the pricy dinners are obviously the lion's share of the fee.
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Violione
Sir Loin of Beef
To the Forum Membership:
Life for me has been a bit of a struggle as well and I fully understand where Bob is on his personal loss for I was in the same place 6 years ago. Again Bob, my condolences.
Now that school is out I can devote more time to my family and to NAFO 2010!
I would like to add some comments in hopes that stated concerns are addressed.
* Everything Intech has stated about the hotel finances is 100% and, yes, his credit card is on the books for the fees. My name is also on the contract. Intech is my friend and I have committed to this 100% and Intech will not bear the full burden of this obligation.
* other factors included in the $150 rally fee are:
- T- shirt
- lanyard and badge
- rally pin
* In order to plan for an event of this size, certain criteria had to be assumed:
- Consideration of the total number of attendee's (EOM typically draws between 95 to 125 members. NAFO 2008 had over 200 attendees)
- Finding a venue that would have that many rooms as well as catering facilities narrowed the list significantly
- The area/city in which to hold the event needed to provide other factors such as entrainment, major airport location, adequate medical facilities (God forbid) as well as the best possible riding experience for the group.
* To address the Non-Refundable Rally Fee - It was recommended to us to state that the fee is non-refundable since the hotel must be paid as long as it is able to provide the services promised in the contract. If Mother Nature gets ugly and everyone decides not to attend, the hotel still must be paid. Please note, however; that we are understanding people and we know that things happen to people beyond their control.
* As Intech stated we are open to the idea of refunding any excess fees.
On a personal note: I understand the concern of the event fee plus the $99 a night room fee as possibly being a "tad expensive" but on recent camping trips to NC and WV, I incurred costs which included site fees, gas, food and a few miscellaneous items that totaled approximately $300 for each trip. Three weeks ago I took a three day "mental health" bike trip and stayed at motels that were obviously cheap, non- franchised establishments and spent $387. To me, the Marriott seems like a good deal since, should the weather not cooperate, we have a 4 Star Marriott and all of downtown Knoxville to explore and entertain us. Some riders will don the rain gear and go riding (as many did at EOM 2009 in Johnson City, TN), but others will seek alternate ways to keep busy and have a good time.
Looking forward to NAFO 2010,
Jay (Violione)
Life for me has been a bit of a struggle as well and I fully understand where Bob is on his personal loss for I was in the same place 6 years ago. Again Bob, my condolences.
Now that school is out I can devote more time to my family and to NAFO 2010!
I would like to add some comments in hopes that stated concerns are addressed.
* Everything Intech has stated about the hotel finances is 100% and, yes, his credit card is on the books for the fees. My name is also on the contract. Intech is my friend and I have committed to this 100% and Intech will not bear the full burden of this obligation.
* other factors included in the $150 rally fee are:
- T- shirt
- lanyard and badge
- rally pin
* In order to plan for an event of this size, certain criteria had to be assumed:
- Consideration of the total number of attendee's (EOM typically draws between 95 to 125 members. NAFO 2008 had over 200 attendees)
- Finding a venue that would have that many rooms as well as catering facilities narrowed the list significantly
- The area/city in which to hold the event needed to provide other factors such as entrainment, major airport location, adequate medical facilities (God forbid) as well as the best possible riding experience for the group.
* To address the Non-Refundable Rally Fee - It was recommended to us to state that the fee is non-refundable since the hotel must be paid as long as it is able to provide the services promised in the contract. If Mother Nature gets ugly and everyone decides not to attend, the hotel still must be paid. Please note, however; that we are understanding people and we know that things happen to people beyond their control.
* As Intech stated we are open to the idea of refunding any excess fees.
On a personal note: I understand the concern of the event fee plus the $99 a night room fee as possibly being a "tad expensive" but on recent camping trips to NC and WV, I incurred costs which included site fees, gas, food and a few miscellaneous items that totaled approximately $300 for each trip. Three weeks ago I took a three day "mental health" bike trip and stayed at motels that were obviously cheap, non- franchised establishments and spent $387. To me, the Marriott seems like a good deal since, should the weather not cooperate, we have a 4 Star Marriott and all of downtown Knoxville to explore and entertain us. Some riders will don the rain gear and go riding (as many did at EOM 2009 in Johnson City, TN), but others will seek alternate ways to keep busy and have a good time.
Looking forward to NAFO 2010,
Jay (Violione)
vectervp1
Well-known member
Hi folks. I haven’t been here in a looong time due to some life changing events, but I wanted to say a few words about NAFO.
First of all, there is a BIG difference between setting up an event for 10-20 folks and setting up an event for 200+ folks. When you start to get to numbers that high, hotels want certain commitments from you. In a lot of cases you are asking them to ‘trust’ that you will be filling anywhere between a 30% of their rooms to 90% of their rooms. From a business perspective they have to have some sort of assurance that this will happen. This is why they ask you to commit to a certain dollar amount. Also, no one is saying you have to stay at the guest hotel. Just keep in mind most people will want to do that since that’s where the 'party' is going to take place.
As for the food, it's the same basic thing. They don't care of you're having a wedding or a trade show. If you're booking the room and want catering you have to go with their food. You also have to go with their insane catering pricing. A lot of times you also have to have a minimum food order as well. $50 for a catered meal in a decent hotel is not that bad. I've seen it be well past $100 before and you were left wondering why exactly you paid that much for what you got. You also can't just have people pay as they come because they need to know how much food to prepare. Usually you have to commit to an estimated number when you sign the contract, and have an exact number a week or so in advance. It depends on the location.
Overall its a lot of commitment from individual folks hoping that they got the numbers right. If they don't they could be out thousands very quickly.
First of all, there is a BIG difference between setting up an event for 10-20 folks and setting up an event for 200+ folks. When you start to get to numbers that high, hotels want certain commitments from you. In a lot of cases you are asking them to ‘trust’ that you will be filling anywhere between a 30% of their rooms to 90% of their rooms. From a business perspective they have to have some sort of assurance that this will happen. This is why they ask you to commit to a certain dollar amount. Also, no one is saying you have to stay at the guest hotel. Just keep in mind most people will want to do that since that’s where the 'party' is going to take place.
As for the food, it's the same basic thing. They don't care of you're having a wedding or a trade show. If you're booking the room and want catering you have to go with their food. You also have to go with their insane catering pricing. A lot of times you also have to have a minimum food order as well. $50 for a catered meal in a decent hotel is not that bad. I've seen it be well past $100 before and you were left wondering why exactly you paid that much for what you got. You also can't just have people pay as they come because they need to know how much food to prepare. Usually you have to commit to an estimated number when you sign the contract, and have an exact number a week or so in advance. It depends on the location.
Overall its a lot of commitment from individual folks hoping that they got the numbers right. If they don't they could be out thousands very quickly.
Geezer
Parsimonious Curmudgeon
+1 Anyone who has attended an FJR gathering knows that the best part of the gathering is in the evening in the parking lot at the venue. And that
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pjm204
Well-known member
I definitely want to attend but $150 for me, possibly another $150 for my passenger, then $200 for the room, plus gas, food, etc will be a pricey weekend. That doesn't mean I am not going to try and come. I'm a new member but I think this will be a trip worth making for sure.
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MEM
Well-known member
Jeezers! There's drinking and parking lot-partying at FJR events ? Is there music and dancing, too ?
Did that happen at CFR 2010 ? Damn, I always miss out on the fun
Hmm.
That sounds pretty dismissive, huron. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.
Forum - a public meeting or assembly for open discussion .
I've found this thread to be VERY interesting and informative. Thanks for starting the discussion, Fred.
And Bid D, you noted some things that I'm sure many have considered.
And thanks so much, Intech and Violione and vectorvp1, for taking the time to explain all of the ins and outs, instead of
just blowing off the folks with concerns. Knowing more about what's involved in the planning (and organizing and negotiating)
makes me appreciate much more what y'all are doing.
Damn.
Not for the faint-hearted, what you're all willing to take on.
Wish I could make it.
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I know some folks are having some angst about the price, but it seems like Intech laid it out very simply and directly where money's going.....and that the more people that aim their FJR to this event will be happier about whatever refund happens.
NAFO events by their potential size have to be held at the larger venues...and they're simply more expensive. It ain't 20 people you know all by name personally arriving at the appointed mom and pop motel, but potentially 200+ people breaking bread in a really big room that doesn't have columns in the middle. Those venues cost more and have more amenities.
Having done one of these I don't think people knew how close Golden was about to put $5K on TWN's Amex card because we didn't reach our contractual minimum. It was actually because of the positive juju of FJR riding attendees complimenting and entertaining hotel staff that gave us a break...and probably a bit of how much we ended up dropping in the bar two nights in a row.
NAFO is your event if you choose to go. It's what you will make it. I really hope you go because it's the one place you'll get to share a real beer instead of a virtual beer with friends you've built in this place, the other forum, and other places as well.
Hope you can make it to NAFO 2010!
Ig
NAFO events by their potential size have to be held at the larger venues...and they're simply more expensive. It ain't 20 people you know all by name personally arriving at the appointed mom and pop motel, but potentially 200+ people breaking bread in a really big room that doesn't have columns in the middle. Those venues cost more and have more amenities.
Having done one of these I don't think people knew how close Golden was about to put $5K on TWN's Amex card because we didn't reach our contractual minimum. It was actually because of the positive juju of FJR riding attendees complimenting and entertaining hotel staff that gave us a break...and probably a bit of how much we ended up dropping in the bar two nights in a row.
NAFO is your event if you choose to go. It's what you will make it. I really hope you go because it's the one place you'll get to share a real beer instead of a virtual beer with friends you've built in this place, the other forum, and other places as well.
Hope you can make it to NAFO 2010!
Ig
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Warchild
Benevolent Dictator
There is a STAGGERING amount of work (and risk!) to host a gig of this size!
It is unbelievable how much effort and costs it takes to put on a successful LARGE gathering. I've been rallymaster for many a WFO, including what is still the largest of them all (2006 in Reno, 300+ attendees), and also Staff for the first NAFO, so I know, believe me.
Massive, MASSIVE kudos to Intech,Violione, luvtoride and all other NAFO volunteers!
Geezer
Parsimonious Curmudgeon
Oh, you didn't miss out on any of it. Maybe you just didn't remember it the next morning.Jeezers! There's drinking and parking lot-partying at FJR events ? Is there music and dancing, too ?
Did that happen at CFR 2010 ? Damn, I always miss out on the fun
Do we have to bring out the pictures? B)
MEM
Well-known member
No photos .... didn't happen!Oh, you didn't miss out on any of it. Maybe you just didn't remember it the next morning.Jeezers! There's drinking and parking lot-partying at FJR events ? Is there music and dancing, too ?
Did that happen at CFR 2010 ? Damn, I always miss out on the fun
All joking aside, this is a great thread. Transparency in issues like this is - usually - a good thing.
Duff
Well-known member
I know the primary focus of this discussion is "Where's the money going", but I want to reiterate the "Why should I pay that much" side of it:
I’m a cheap bastard when it comes to some things and I’m happy to spend too much on others. Staying in a nice hotel is easily worth $100+ a night, but $150+ for “registration” gets my sphincter muscle puckering (along with a few other things, but we won’t go into that). Having said that, there are plenty of reasons (all listed in this thread) why the registration fee is non-refundable and that much money.
So, is it worth it to spend that much for an event? I mean, we can get a group of guys/gals together for much less if we just all meet up at a random hotel, right? There is NO SUBSTITUTION for an event like this! The sheer number of like-minded individuals coming together in one place and sharing/showing/talking/complaining/bragging about their shared passion is something you can’t find anywhere else. Three or four of your buddies, or even 15 of your buddies getting together over a weekend will not give you the experience of a NAFO-level event.
I’ve said it elsewhere; “It’s the people”, and you just don’t get the “people factor” unless you go to an event like this. I would have pre-paid in January, before registration even opened if I could have attended this year. I’ll be at future events and won’t shed a tear for the outlay in the process. This isn’t something you “fit-in” to your monthly budget, this is something you plan and look forward to all year. It’s not a weekend ride, it’s an annual pilgrimage to pay homage to the trusty steed that gets us to all those exotic places, relaxes our consciousness and burns memories into our minds for the rest of our life! (OK, maybe I’ve taken it a bit over the top)
Anyway, I’m just saying that the price may sound steep but its well worth the money and effort to save/plan for this event .
Now back to our regularly scheduled thread…
I’m a cheap bastard when it comes to some things and I’m happy to spend too much on others. Staying in a nice hotel is easily worth $100+ a night, but $150+ for “registration” gets my sphincter muscle puckering (along with a few other things, but we won’t go into that). Having said that, there are plenty of reasons (all listed in this thread) why the registration fee is non-refundable and that much money.
So, is it worth it to spend that much for an event? I mean, we can get a group of guys/gals together for much less if we just all meet up at a random hotel, right? There is NO SUBSTITUTION for an event like this! The sheer number of like-minded individuals coming together in one place and sharing/showing/talking/complaining/bragging about their shared passion is something you can’t find anywhere else. Three or four of your buddies, or even 15 of your buddies getting together over a weekend will not give you the experience of a NAFO-level event.
I’ve said it elsewhere; “It’s the people”, and you just don’t get the “people factor” unless you go to an event like this. I would have pre-paid in January, before registration even opened if I could have attended this year. I’ll be at future events and won’t shed a tear for the outlay in the process. This isn’t something you “fit-in” to your monthly budget, this is something you plan and look forward to all year. It’s not a weekend ride, it’s an annual pilgrimage to pay homage to the trusty steed that gets us to all those exotic places, relaxes our consciousness and burns memories into our minds for the rest of our life! (OK, maybe I’ve taken it a bit over the top)
Anyway, I’m just saying that the price may sound steep but its well worth the money and effort to save/plan for this event .
Now back to our regularly scheduled thread…
huron52
Well-known member
We have allow several forum members to find a hotel, get us a meal. To set up a Rally. They have done what they have had to do to get that. I, for one will not argue that they maybe they could should have got a better deal.
My decision of whether I am going are based on many other factors. Not just the money. Ask anyone that went to the CFR last week. Was it worth the price? I think yes! Don't just take my word for it. ASK!
I think some folks may have misunderstood my intent for starting up this thread.
I am not grumbling or bitching about the cost. In fact, I am already signed up and committed (or should be) to attend.
Personally, I would not miss this rally if the price were doubled. I missed out on NAFO '08 (in favor of EOM '08) and EOM '09 (for work reasons).
I will not miss this one.
I had heard that some (many) other folks were somewhat put-off by the price of the rally and thought that a thorough examination of the basis for the rally fees might help folks understand what the fees were going towards, an encourage them to attend.
Some of the remarks made above are spot on: This is not a little regional affair. This could not have been pulled off at a local Best Western or Briar Inn. Those places are great for the smaller regionals, but there is a potential here to have 400+ people attending. That many peeps in one of those places would have been a nightmare.
I also think that the $99 /per night rate at any Marriott is a completely kick ass rate. People that think otherwise have likely not done much traveling and/or staying at Marriotts. Yes, the dinner costs are pretty high. But that is to be expected at a top-class hotel.
BTW - I really like the idea of having a "most inappropriately dressed diner" award.
And I hope not to win it.
I'm betting that this is going to be one, if not THE best FJR Rally EVER!!
In closing, imagine this:
Try to imagine that a few years down the road you can't ride anymore. A lot of us are... ahem, older guys and gals. This kind of possibility is frighteningly all too real. And imagine that you passed up this opportunity just because it costs a few dollars more than you thought it should...
I wouldn't miss it.
I might miss a mortgage payment or credit card payment , but I'm not missing this.
I am not grumbling or bitching about the cost. In fact, I am already signed up and committed (or should be) to attend.
Personally, I would not miss this rally if the price were doubled. I missed out on NAFO '08 (in favor of EOM '08) and EOM '09 (for work reasons).
I will not miss this one.
I had heard that some (many) other folks were somewhat put-off by the price of the rally and thought that a thorough examination of the basis for the rally fees might help folks understand what the fees were going towards, an encourage them to attend.
Some of the remarks made above are spot on: This is not a little regional affair. This could not have been pulled off at a local Best Western or Briar Inn. Those places are great for the smaller regionals, but there is a potential here to have 400+ people attending. That many peeps in one of those places would have been a nightmare.
I also think that the $99 /per night rate at any Marriott is a completely kick ass rate. People that think otherwise have likely not done much traveling and/or staying at Marriotts. Yes, the dinner costs are pretty high. But that is to be expected at a top-class hotel.
BTW - I really like the idea of having a "most inappropriately dressed diner" award.
And I hope not to win it.
I'm betting that this is going to be one, if not THE best FJR Rally EVER!!
In closing, imagine this:
Try to imagine that a few years down the road you can't ride anymore. A lot of us are... ahem, older guys and gals. This kind of possibility is frighteningly all too real. And imagine that you passed up this opportunity just because it costs a few dollars more than you thought it should...
I wouldn't miss it.
I might miss a mortgage payment or credit card payment
, but I'm not missing this.
Patriot
Isabella is Lazarus
In closing, imagine this: Try to imagine that a few years down the road you can't ride anymore. A lot of us are... ahem, older guys and gals. This kind of possibility is frighteningly all too real. And imagine that you passed up this opportunity just because it costs a few dollars more than you thought it should...
I wouldn't miss it.
I might miss a mortgage payment or credit card payment
Intech
Mr. Camping Meet
Thanks Fred. I think that puts a great perspective on it. You are registered and thank you. I think in honor of you we will do the "Most Inappropriately Dressed" award. Advertising it could make for some interesting competition. I think I might take Derby Cycles up on their $239 PR2 deal and donate it as a prize for that award. I have been thinking about doing something and after seeing thaat special today that would work.I'm betting that this is going to be one, if not THE best FJR Rally EVER!!
In closing, imagine this:
Try to imagine that a few years down the road you can't ride anymore. A lot of us are... ahem, older guys and gals. This kind of possibility is frighteningly all too real. And imagine that you passed up this opportunity just because it costs a few dollars more than you thought it should...
I wouldn't miss it.
I might miss a mortgage payment or credit card payment
Bob
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