second cam chain tensioner

[ahamlin01]

I had the cam chain tensioner replaced at about 31k miles on my 2005 due to a light "loose" chain noise. It fixed the problem (i.e. the noise went away).

A couple months ago a louder, deeper pitched noise (like marbles) started in the lower right hand side of the motor (now with about 36k miles on it). After reading through this forum, which is always a huge help, and reading how to adjust the CCT with a long thin screwdriver I was able to determine that the CCT needed to be replaced again. (Someone had mentioned they know an individual who has had 4 cam chain tensioners within 100k, if I remember correctly)

I was able to do it myself, with a LOT of patience, the service manual, and a helper holding a flashlight. The engine is as quiet as can be again. It took a few hours, mostly due to removing all the plastic which I took the opportunity to clean while it was all off the frame.

I found that I needed to remove the TPS to get the CCT out of it's spot behind the frame. The whole job would have been so much easier if there was about an inch more space for your hands and the 8mm wrench. Tough, tough spot to work in.

Anyway, just passing along some info. If you plan to do it yourself, take your time. I saved a decent amount of money by not having to pay the hourly shop fee, and also have the satisfaction of having learned something more about the FJR.

 

[SkooterG]

Wow. Your second one only lasted 5,000 miles. Not very good.

Congrats on doing the job yourself and getting a quiet FJR back.

 

[Toecutter]

Hmmm, sounds pretty involved, as in "I wonder how a shop local to me did it in under two hours, while I waited, but wasn't allowed to watch? Or, more specifically, "I wonder IF..." Sure didn't change the sound, which sounds to me like a recurrence of "The tick".

Does anybody know how much time is "officially" involved in replacing the CCT?

 

[HaulinAshe]

I was able to do it myself, with a LOT of patience, the service manual, and a helper holding a flashlight. The engine is as quiet as can be again. It took a few hours, mostly due to removing all the plastic which I took the opportunity to clean while it was all off the frame.
I found that I needed to remove the TPS to get the CCT out of it's spot behind the frame. The whole job would have been so much easier if there was about an inch more space for your hands and the 8mm wrench. Tough, tough spot to work in.

Since you specifically went into the bike to replace the CCT and nothing else, I'm wondering just how much tupperware you had to remove and if you found any possible shortcuts for the operation that you would care to share?

 

[Colin24]

I found that I needed to remove the TPS to get the CCT out of it's spot behind the frame. The whole job would have been so much easier if there was about an inch more space for your hands and the 8mm wrench. Tough, tough spot to work in.
Anyway, just passing along some info. If you plan to do it yourself, take your time. I saved a decent amount of money by not having to pay the hourly shop fee, and also have the satisfaction of having learned something more about the FJR.

Good for you (doing it yourself). I've done mine; and yes it requires patience!

FWIW: I did not remove the TPS. I found that if the bolt holding the idle speed adjuster was removed that the idle speed adjuster could be pushed back in under the throttle bodies. This should allow the CCT to be brought out through the bottom.

- Colin

 

[ELP_JC]

That 5K miles on the 2nd one sounds suspect. At some point you'll have to take a look at all cam chain related parts; maybe at the next valve check. Good luck.

JC

 

[ahamlin01]

Since you specifically went into the bike to replace the CCT and nothing else, I'm wondering just how much tupperware you had to remove and if you found any possible shortcuts for the operation that you would care to share?

I took off everything - I think the minimum would be all right side panels, and lift the tank - I just took out the front tank bolts and lifted it, and supported it with a wood block so that I could get access from the top. The top 8mmm bolt is easy, the bottom one is really difficult. I even went to Sears and bought a flexible 1/4 drive extension to put the 8mm 1/4 inch socket onto - but that did not help due to the very limited space. Maybe there is a tool that can help, I ended up just using my fingers and an 8mm open end wrench.

WIW: I did not remove the TPS. I found that if the bolt holding the idle speed adjuster was removed that the idle speed adjuster could be pushed back in under the throttle bodies. This should allow the CCT to be brought out through the bottom

I did not think of that - since I had the tank up, and had done the TPS myself before, so I own the correct size Torx security bit, I just went with taking out the TPS. This allowed me to double-check the TPS setting using the diag screen codes, which I wanted to do anyway.

That 5K miles on the 2nd one sounds suspect. At some point you'll have to take a look at all cam chain related parts; maybe at the next valve check

I agree. No noise now, but if it starts up again soon I will be under the impression there is something else going on. I can't imagine these things normally fail after 5k - but, you never know. Parts are parts.

 

[ionbeam]

ahamlin01, do you still have either of your tensioners? My tensioner has roughly 1 7/8 inches of travel from fully retracted to fully extended. When I hold my tensioner up to the light, about half way out on the plunger I can see a wear mark roughly 3/8 of an inch long from the ‘new’ position to where the tensioner required replacement. I retract the tensioner to the beginning of the wear mark then released it against a force gage, and then I extended it to the end of the wear mark. I found the difference in spring force from beginning to end of the wear mark was over 10 times weaker! As the plunger extended to take up chain wear it became weaker and weaker, just where it needs to be stronger. Does your tensioner behave like this? Did you happen to check your latest tensioner to see how it felt?

Good luck! I agree with everyone that says the next time you check your valves you should really change your cam chain.

 

[ahamlin01]

Hi Ionbeam - I think I have the one I just removed - I will check later. I do not have a force gauge, and have not inspected the CCT closely. If you are interested I will send it up to you and you can see if it has the same issues your CCT had. PM me if you want.

Allen

 

[sredder]

I replaced my CCT this weekend and found that you don't have to remove the TPS. I took out the allen bolt that holds on the idle adjuster (one of the bolts that attach the clutch cover) and the CCT dropped out from below. I also found that the upper bolt holding on the CCT is easy using a 8MM wrench, but I needed a 1/4 inch extension with a wobble end on it to get to the lower bolt. No problem accessing this through the hole that allows you to mess with the CCT adjuster. Piece of cake job - less than 1.5 hours from start to finish.

Sredder

 

[demetri]

dont you have to secure the cam chain so it doesnt jump teeth while changing the tensioner?

 

[FJRBluesman]

Try this next time.

My CCT thread.

 

[demetri]

Try this next time.
My CCT thread.

oh she's in my favs! i'll read it again.

5 minutes later; nope. nothing on holding the chain tension while swapping cct.

 

[wfooshee]

Try this next time.
My CCT thread.

oh she's in my favs! i'll read it again.

5 minutes later; nope. nothing on holding the chain tension while swapping cct.

Chain's not going anywhere with the tensioner out, but do NOT turn the motor at all, with anything.

 

[FJRBluesman]

Try this next time.My CCT thread.

oh she's in my favs! i'll read it again.

5 minutes later; nope. nothing on holding the chain tension while swapping cct.

Chain's not going anywhere with the tensioner out, but do NOT turn the motor at all, with anything.

Gunny. No need to hold the chain, it's going no where unless you turn motor over via manually or by starter. DON'T DO THAT!

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Chain's not going anywhere with the tensioner out, but do NOT turn the motor at all, with anything.

I'm not sure that's necessarily true...?

(maybe with the FJR engine -- I don't know?)

But, most engines will have any open valves want to push back on their cam lobes (if they can) and that'll rotate the cam and cam-shaft (when no tensioned chain is holding it).

There are specific places in engine rotation where most of the valves are either closed, fully open, or not exerting pressure (rotating forces) on the cams -- and those positions are the only places where it's relatively safe to remove/release the CCT.

Beware of the possibility of cams rotating with a loose (untensioned) chain.

 

[FJRay]

Being a bit of a chicken, In the three time I have had the CCT out of mine I pull the cover and secure the chain just to be sure it stays where I want it. It may or may not move but if it did and you didn't know you would be f#$%ed.

 

[Geezer]

Being a bit of a chicken, In the three time I have had the CCT out of mine I pull the cover and secure the chain just to be sure it stays where I want it. It may or may not move but if it did and you didn't know you would be f#$%ed.

Yep. It is simple enough to remove the cover and use a small bungie or something to hold it in place. Only takes a few minutes since you already have the plastic pieces out of the way.

 

[demetri]

Being a bit of a chicken, In the three time I have had the CCT out of mine I pull the cover and secure the chain just to be sure it stays where I want it. It may or may not move but if it did and you didn't know you would be f#$%ed.

Yep. It is simple enough to remove the cover and use a small bungie or something to hold it in place. Only takes a few minutes since you already have the plastic pieces out of the way.

Yes, I would tend to agree with this too. On every car and bike that I've had to do this I've also secured the chains/belts so that's what I'm going to do. I also spoke with a local Yama tech who said he rotates the engine by had to find a steady spot and puts the bike in 5th gear. He's done it enough to know if it has slipped. If it slips, he pulls the valve cover. If not, just replaces the CCT. Experiece is the judge here. YMMV.

My experience what it is, I'll refrain from going the RadioHowie route and pull the valve cover. I'm a bit of a mechanical slut anyway! :drag: