Sill Running Like Crap!

[03HiYoSilver]

...I recall that many years ago, spark plug wires and caps seemed to go bad way too frequently. I happened to notice that at least a couple of the s p wires are "twisted" together rather snugly, wonder if they could be chafing and arcing out when wet. ... Arcing plug wires would sure cause your symptoms and might be ok when dry.

What I did while I was diagnosing the Main Harness Connector Contamination, one of the Process' of Elimination was to Isolate ANY/Every Wire to Wire or Wire to Metal Contact with some Cut Rubber Tubing.

It helped alot and then I found the Connector Corrosion in the Main Connector forward of the T-Bar as one of the last stops that really helped out when it was Cleaned Up.

 

[dcarver]

..and? A long memorial day weekend of wrenching awaits...

Good luck Ross, man, what a PITA, huh?

 

[RossKean]

Thanks for the support and suggestions. I don't have a long weekend (our long May weekend was last week). I expect it will FEEL like a long weekend by the time I'm done. I will report back with findings (if any).

Ross

 

[RossKean]

OK.

I removed the fairings and liberally soaked everything electrical with water while the bike was running. Sprayed coils and plug wires directly for about 5 minutes and it ran perfectly. Sprayed the ignition switch, a variety of connectors and the plug wires/caps. I don't know whether this is the equivalent of a couple of hours of light rain or not but there was no hint of trouble.

I checked out some of the ground spiders. I have had the recall done but I dismantled a few of the others (left #4 alone). One up in the nose of the bike had one "leg" a bit tarnished. Cleaned it up with emory paper and put it back with some dielectric grease.

While it was apart, I tee'd the tank vent line going to the charcoal canister with the tank overflow hose like the non-California bikes. I plugged the tank vent line going to the canister and don't think there is any need to do anything else. Since I didn't remove the lines from the canister, there won't be any possibility of drawing unfiltered air into the engine.

I replaced the K&N air filter with an OEM filter. Can't see that it would make any difference. Lots of folks have used the K&N's without problems.

Tank cap was dismantled and cleaned. There did not seem to be any problems with it and it wasn't particularly dirty.

At this point, I have NO idea whether I have "fixed" anything. Maybe the next time we have a good rain, I will do circuits of Fredericton for a couple of hours - staying within ten miles of home in case shit happens.

Ross

 

[dcarver]

Ross, I applaud your tenacity and sincerely hope you 'fix' the problem.

The most annoying 'fixes' are ones you don't know, 'exactly' what was done to resolve the issue.

In times like these, I just accept and move on.

I hope this works for you, amigo.

 

[Zorlac]

I'm thinking this is way more reliable than those POS spider connectors.

:dribble:

Good luck finding your intermittent, maybe the rain ride was just coincidental since your hosing it down didn't recreate the problem.

 

[RossKean]

Ross, I applaud your tenacity and sincerely hope you 'fix' the problem.

The most annoying 'fixes' are ones you don't know, 'exactly' what was done to resolve the issue.

In times like these, I just accept and move on.

I hope this works for you, amigo.

Don. The worst part is not knowing whether it is "fixed" or not. I thought I had it fixed last summer after I got home from NERD's. This is the first time since then I have had to ride in the rain for an extended period of time.

I was planning to go to NAFO this month - taking the long way around! Stuff at work and finances have conspired against me for this year. Maybe just as well with a bike that "MAY" be fixed (or not).

Cheers

 

[RossKean]

I'm thinking this is way more reliable than those POS spider connectors.

:dribble:

Good luck finding your intermittent, maybe the rain ride was just coincidental since your hosing it down didn't recreate the problem.

This failure has happened twice in 65,000 miles. Both times were after riding for 2-3 hours in moderate but steady rain. Other than these times, there has never been an issue so I think it would be an incredible coincidence if it wasn't rain-related. I agree on the spider substitute. Might not be a bad idea to carry a couple of those on the bike - emergency kit.

 

[HPTuner]

When you did your soak test, did you wet the TPS switch real good? Just a thought, as they can make a bike run like crap. Good Luck!

 

[HotRodZilla]

Something like this may or may not be related to your issue, but a long time ago, I had a friend with an Isuzu Trooper. Every time it rained, that thing would freak out and die. It would cool off a bit and then run fine for a bit...and then, die.

After I donno how many trips to the dealer, they found a cracked PC board connection. Apparently, it was normally ok, but if some water got in there, heated up, and expanded the area, the Trooper would die. It was crazy frustrating for him for about a year.

It seems like you have hit all the basic "go to" stuff for what you describe. Hopefully that did it.

 

[mvette]

Reseat and take a close look at the main ECU connector at the ECU. I remember when the ECU recall was going on there were problems going on after the recall was done. Look for wire or wires that may have partially backed out the back side of the connector.

 

[Bounce]

Something like this may or may not be related to your issue, but a long time ago, I had a friend with an Isuzu Trooper. Every time it rained, that thing would freak out and die. It would cool off a bit and then run fine for a bit...and then, die.

After I donno how many trips to the dealer, they found a cracked PC board connection. Apparently, it was normally ok, but if some water got in there, heated up, and expanded the area, the Trooper would die. It was crazy frustrating for him for about a year.

It seems like you have hit all the basic "go to" stuff for what you describe. Hopefully that did it.

now that you mention that, i had an intermittent wiper control module do the same thing. we couldn't force it to fail at the dealership. (GMS Sierra truck) but get into a rain and the wipers would do all sorts of strang things. stop all together, run fast, run fast for x, stop, run slow for x, and jump part way up and stop. off crazy stuff.

i finally left it with them and told them to keep it until they fixed it.

they ended up setting a garden hose to run water all over the windshield and, after 2 hours it started acting up. they couldn't find the fault until then. it was, as you describe, a circuit board that would only fail under very specific circumstances.

 

[dcarver]

Bounce, you thinking the ECU PCB?

 

[RossKean]

When you did your soak test, did you wet the TPS switch real good? Just a thought, as they can make a bike run like crap. Good Luck!

Everything up front and everything under the tank. Didn't resort to a garden hose but kept everything saturated for 5 or 10 minutes with a good spray.

Something like this may or may not be related to your issue, but a long time ago, I had a friend with an Isuzu Trooper. Every time it rained, that thing would freak out and die. It would cool off a bit and then run fine for a bit...and then, die.

After I donno how many trips to the dealer, they found a cracked PC board connection. Apparently, it was normally ok, but if some water got in there, heated up, and expanded the area, the Trooper would die. It was crazy frustrating for him for about a year.

It seems like you have hit all the basic "go to" stuff for what you describe. Hopefully that did it.

I hope the ECU PCB isn't buggered. That would be expensive and hard to diagnose! I certainly hope I have done everything I can/should.

Reseat and take a close look at the main ECU connector at the ECU. I remember when the ECU recall was going on there were problems going on after the recall was done. Look for wire or wires that may have partially backed out the back side of the connector.

Already pulled the ECU plug and everything is clean and dry in there. Its pretty well protected.

Something like this may or may not be related to your issue, but a long time ago, I had a friend with an Isuzu Trooper. Every time it rained, that thing would freak out and die. It would cool off a bit and then run fine for a bit...and then, die.

After I donno how many trips to the dealer, they found a cracked PC board connection. Apparently, it was normally ok, but if some water got in there, heated up, and expanded the area, the Trooper would die. It was crazy frustrating for him for about a year.

It seems like you have hit all the basic "go to" stuff for what you describe. Hopefully that did it.

now that you mention that, i had an intermittent wiper control module do the same thing. we couldn't force it to fail at the dealership. (GMS Sierra truck) but get into a rain and the wipers would do all sorts of strang things. stop all together, run fast, run fast for x, stop, run slow for x, and jump part way up and stop. off crazy stuff.

i finally left it with them and told them to keep it until they fixed it.

they ended up setting a garden hose to run water all over the windshield and, after 2 hours it started acting up. they couldn't find the fault until then. it was, as you describe, a circuit board that would only fail under very specific circumstances.

Didn't find the proverbial smoking gun - other than a mildly tarnished "leg" on one of the ground spiders. Doubt it would be enough to cause problems. I bypassed the cannister and verified tank venting.

Intermittant weird shit happening without a logical cause is the thing that maintenance nightmares are made of.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

...Didn't find the proverbial smoking gun - other than a mildly tarnished "leg" on one of the ground spiders. Doubt it would be enough to cause problems...

It does not take much to throw things off.

 

[RossKean]

Update of sorts...

An hour and a half of riding in moderate rain plus another 3/4 of an hour on wet roads without issue. Not calling it fixed but am a little more confident that at least a brief interval of wet won't shut me down.

Ross

 

[RossKean]

Edit: This was initially posted in a separate thread because I believe the current issue is not related!

I have had a couple of odd elecrical issues. (I am pretty sure its not related to the crappy running issues I have had in the rain). This has happened twice and went away both times - I think when I cycled the ignition but not sure. I didn't really have a chance to play with it and get a full list of symptoms but this is what I have: If (when) it happens again, I will try to gather a little more information on other electrical stuff - i.e. rear blinkers, brake lights, see if it is affected by wiggling wires, playing with ignition switch etc.

Pulled up to the front of a store facing the window and noticed odd behavior for the blinkers. Seemed like the dimmer filament (normally the running light filament) was cycling from on to off and the blinker filament wasn't doing anything. (Running light should stay on and the blinker filament should cycle on-and-off). I have seen this sort of behavior on another bike (Yamaha Venture) and it was due to corrosion in the socket. If this was the only symptom, I would just pull the blinkers and check the socket and bulbs. PITA to get to but easy to fix.

The high beam indicator light was on at the same time even though the high beam switch was not on. I'm not sure whether the high beam light was on or not - the switch was definitely off. The high beam indicator stayed on even after I cancelled the blinker. As I mentioned, everything seemed to fix itself after turning stuff on and off a couple of times (including the key). I wouldn't think the blinker function could be self-correcting if due to corrosion and can't imagine how it could have any effect on the high beam circuit.

Engine ran without any issue during this upset.

Intermittent issue and it has happened twice - a couple of weeks and a couple of thousand miles apart. While scoping out my crappy running issues, I checked three of the ground spiders and found one leg of one of the spiders was mildly tarnished but I didn't check all of the spiders (cleaned and dielectric greased) the ones I did check). This was after the first time this problem was observed so my messing with the spiders was not the cause. The #4 spider recall was done by a Yamaha shop last year - didn't check that one. Note: both times this happened, the outside temperature was moderately hot (80 ish) and the bike had been running fairly warm (city riding).

I don't know whether this is a spider issue or something else. I don't know if someone could direct me to the most likely culprit given the symptoms??

Was also wondering if this is the sort of thing one might see with an ignition switch issue (that recall was also done). I am considering the ignition switch only because of the self-correction with cycling. Would not expect a spider problem to come and go.

I am headed out on a week-long trip on Thursday and would feel a lot better if I could get to the bottom of this issue before I go.

Thanks

Ross

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Since you never got a definitive answer on your crappy running issue, it is impossible to know whether or not the two issues are related. If it were mine I would be hoping that they were one and the same and that the problem was making itself bad enough to eventually be found. Since your other issue ocurred in the rain in my mind it was electrical, but obviously, nobody knows. It's all a wild ass guess. I sure wish you luck in finding this, I hate to hear about you having such bad luck with your FJR.

 

[RossKean]

I made my last post as a new thread and I'm not sure how or why it got merged into the "Crappy Running" thread.

I believe that this is a totally separate issue - engine is currently running just fine but I am seeing the electrical issues I have described which I did not see before. I am very much concerned that I have a serious problem that might leave me stranded.

This is strictly related to observed behavior with signal lights and indicator panel lights and not with performance. With the running in the rain issue, there were no anomalies related to lights (signals or panel). There is no similarity of either symptoms or conditions.

Ross

 

[Bustanut joker]

Damn Ross... I feel for ya an agree. I don't think these two are related. The new stuff sounds spider related.

Best of luck man.