The Curse of Odot

[ionbeam]

...Also, there is also NO effect by oil pressure on the mechanism. It's spring tension only to extend the plunger.
...contrary to what Ionbeam wrote in his disaster thread, the tabs that locate the plunger body in the CCT housing, noted here with arrows: (you can't see one of the tabs on the plunger body from the picture angle)...CAN be rotated 180 degrees, rather than only 360 degrees that Ionbeam had noted in his thread, so should one have a CCT with weak return tension, the circlip can be easily removed, the plunger "cap" with the tabs rotated 180 degrees to add tension, then the circlip replaced.

Now is this something one SHOULD do? I'll leave that for gods and demons to debate. ...you CAN adjust spring tension by rotating the cap, as I discovered. He just recommends you DON'T....

Good stuff from a bad situation. Jacques told me that there was on oil passage that assisted tensioning the slipper. I haven't found evidence that his statement is valid.

I have two CCTs here that the end cap will only fit one way, 180° rotation is not an option, so there must be at least two different housings.

As far as the broken spring and your devils choice if you would have retensioned the spring and reused the CCT -- well, I've got a couple of springs out of two failed CCTs. You've got to ask yourself one question, 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? I can have that bad boy in the mail in no time. You *may* have escaped one catastrophic CCT failure, wanna try for two?

 

[radman]

The tensioner from Yammi shows a part number change. I would go new, they may have altered things a bit.

 

[Fastfar]

Don't know ya, ain't ridden wit ya, but I feel your pain...now if it were me...if I can't fix it or replace it (unlikely to do either as I am one of 6 million unemployed and YES expired) I'd make sure my full coverage was in force, and drop the darn thing off the back of a truck at about 80 mph, making sure it did the high-side flip and tumble"...then I'd go find another FJR, none of this 'changing platform" shit...

[SIZE=8pt]...this is not a comment in support of insurance fraud, I'm just saying...[/SIZE]

 

[RadioHowie]

Don't know ya, ain't ridden wit ya, but I feel your pain...now if it were me...if I can't fix it or replace it (unlikely to do either as I am one of 6 million unemployed and YES expired) I'd make sure my full coverage was in force, and drop the darn thing off the back of a truck at about 80 mph, making sure it did the high-side flip and tumble"...then I'd go find another FJR, none of this 'changing platform" shit...
[SIZE=8pt]...this is not a comment in support of insurance fraud, I'm just saying...[/SIZE]

First, I'd have to borrow and truck, and that means witnesses.

Second, with MY luck, 1 - The bike would live, and 2 - It would hit the truck and wreck it too.

Besides, Missus Howie works in insurance. She wouldn't sit still for it. (unless SHE benefitted somehow)

 

[Bustanut joker]

Don't know ya, ain't ridden wit ya, but I feel your pain...now if it were me...if I can't fix it or replace it (unlikely to do either as I am one of 6 million unemployed and YES expired) I'd make sure my full coverage was in force, and drop the darn thing off the back of a truck at about 80 mph, making sure it did the high-side flip and tumble"...then I'd go find another FJR, none of this 'changing platform" shit...
[SIZE=8pt]...this is not a comment in support of insurance fraud, I'm just saying...[/SIZE]

First, I'd have to borrow and truck, and that means witnesses.

Second, with MY luck, 1 - The bike would live, and 2 - It would hit the truck and wreck it too.

Besides, Missus Howie works in insurance. She wouldn't sit still for it. (unless SHE benefitted somehow)

Well... now supposin' you fell outa said truck? at the same time?? Hmmmmm

:blum:

:jester:

 

[wfooshee]

I had a spring do that, but it wasn't quite as important. It was the spring that holds the locking plate down on the Givi E52. Now that it's broken, I have to hold the plate down to lock the case, rather than just turning the key. Exact same spring failure, though, coil spring that gets twists in use, snapped in two close to halfway down the turns.

RH, I feel for ya, man. I've been contemplating a replacement CCT on my bike, 57K miles so apparently it's time, and your tribulation encourages me to do so.

 

[Zorlac]

FWIW, I found this Howie, so take heart.

Apr 30 2008, 07:00 PM

Mine broke but got me home(the tensioner that is)....about 2 miles, sounded terrible but I nursed it and suffered no damage. Mine was covered under YES and is quiet and reliable again. Get 'er fixed Jim !

Bobby

 

[RadioHowie]

I had a spring do that, but it wasn't quite as important. It was the spring that holds the locking plate down on the Givi E52. Now that it's broken, I have to hold the plate down to lock the case, rather than just turning the key. Exact same spring failure, though, coil spring that gets twists in use, snapped in two close to halfway down the turns.
RH, I feel for ya, man. I've been contemplating a replacement CCT on my bike, 57K miles so apparently it's time, and your tribulation encourages me to do so.

Well, I'm just 1k behind you...would have been about 5k ahead of you if my "luck" was different.

Point is, if it rattles, fix it...don't mask it with a faster idle.

 

[HotRodZilla]

It never ceases to amaze me that the failure of a $6 spring can destroy a $3000 engine (or whatever they would cost).

 

[exskibum]

Point is, if it rattles, fix it...don't mask it with a faster idle.

Thank you for that, Howie. My FJR is down now for a number of maintenance and farkling procedures, to be followed by a trip to Zac at Roseville Yamaha for recall stuff and for valve check and other maintenance issues I don't want to do. And now, having read this sorry tale, a CCT checkup just got marked down in capital letters on my list.

I started getting occasional rattling just about a year ago. Very intermittent. But enough, after reading ionbeam's sad tale and your story here, to MAKE SURE I don't have to deal with this.

Much good cam chain mojo heading your way before tomorrow's disassembly.

 

[RadioHowie]

Did any pay any attention to the link Zorlac posted?

From the Sudco APE products webpage:

And their application chart:

Looks like their model YT1000 tensioner fits just about every damn Yamaha made. $54.60. That's half the price of OEM from Mondak. Damn little to break, too.

Note the bottom of the chart -- FJ1100/1200/1300. Was there ever an FJ1300? Or does anyone else think that means FJR 1300?

 

[Bearly Flying]

The rest of the World got an XJR 1300 which was an extension of the FJ 1100/1200 family. (Air Cooled inline 4)

Don't know if the FJR used the same tensioner or not, would have to cross reference some part numbers, or if it looks similar take a chance.........

Good Luck.

 

[Fred W]

A couple of thoughts:

Clearly a manual chain tensioner removes the possibility of a broken or weak spring allowing the tensioner to unwind itself and retract under vibration and chain tension.

What is the "working range" of the OE automatic tensioner?

Not the range that the thing will physically travel under manipulation, but the range it would normally move due to cam chain wear.

How much would you expect it to move over what period of time?

My thinking is that most or all of the catastrophic CCT problems are related to the spring malfunctioning and allowing the tensioner to back way off, thereby allowing the chain to skip a tooth. A manual chain tensioner won't do that. As the chain wears, it should get very slightly loose and noisy long before the chain is loose enough to jump ship.

However, will having a slightly loose chain increase the wear rate of the chain, sprockets and slippers?

The idea of a properly functioning automatic chain tensioner is that it keep the chain at the exact perfect tension (no slack) at all times as the chain stretches. I bet the reason they went for a "clock-spring" arrangement is that the spring force theoretically should remain more constant over the range oif operation that a simple expansion spring.

This seriously seems like the a "Brodie Relay" or KLR "Doo-hickey" type thing that needs a fix engineered for it.

The "fix" may just be a better spring or some other mod to the existing mechanism?

 

[Zorlac]

APE

CCT

 

[ionbeam]

What is the "working range" of the OE automatic tensioner?

1/2" to 7/8"

How much would you expect it to move over what period of time?

3/8" over 50k miles

My thinking is that most or all of the catastrophic CCT problems are related to the spring malfunctioning and allowing the tensioner to back way off

The spring force just peters out to nothing over just 3/8" travel. I've had several 'failed' CCTs in my hand and this seems to universally be the case with all of them. I'm pretty sure no CCT has backed off, the plunger simply fails to auto-extend with enough force to keep up with the increasing slack. Howie is special unique.

The idea of a properly functioning automatic chain tensioner is that it keep the chain at the exact perfect tension (no slack) at all times as the chain stretches. I bet the reason they went for a "clock-spring" arrangement is that the spring force theoretically should remain more constant over the range oif operation that a simple expansion spring.

What you say sure makes sense and it is what I had expected of the CCT too, but from everything I've seen this is absolutely not the way it has turned out.

If you use a manual adjuster try to find the balance between sloppy slack and unnecessarily taut tension/pressure on the slippers and cam chain. The example that Zorlac shows uses a double nut to lock and hold the adjustment from moving. I'd be thinking of something blue too, in the flavor of Lock Tite.

 

[Capt. Bob]

I had that type of tensioner on my FJ1200.

Cam chain ran down the middle if I remember correctly.

I don't know that it would work on the FJR.

 

[RadioHowie]

[SIZE=18pt]DUNFER[/SIZE]

Motor is toast. Badly burned toast.

Got the cams, cam chain and slippers out about 10 minutes ago. Wanted ALL the valves to seat and the only way to do that is with the cams out.

Everything looks great. No wear on slippers, cams pretty and shiny. No ciscernible lobe wear. No cracks, scuffs or gouges.

Used the "put in gear and step on brake" method to remove timing rotor bolt to be able to remove chain.

Everything out, put the rotor bolt back in and attempt to turn with ratchet and socket, hoping beyond hope that I'll feel some resistance when a cylinder TDCs.

Nope. Spins like a Japanese dreidel. (That's a 4 sided top for you gentiles)

Hit the starter...I've got the world's fast cranking spinning FJR.

Silver Streak is dead.

She was a fine ride. I'm gonna miss her a LOT.

Look for "Donor Bike for Sale" in "Classifieds" when I can summon up the courage to write an ad.

Fuck.

 

[Old Michael]

Sincerely saddened to read this Howie.

All the best.

Michael

 

[FJRBluesman]

Sorry Howie.... :dribble:

I've seen complete motors on ebay for only about $1K or two. I know that's not cheap but.... I think you would be able to find a motor from a totaled bike some where.

Good luck.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Tis a sad day.... I'm really sorry to see this Howie..

Damn!

:jester: